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Should Last Breath and Avoid Chip Death be revised?

Do you agree with this idea?


  • Total voters
    80

Eldriken

I smolder with generic rage.
Forum General
Let me first say that I like the idea behind this mechanic, but it is flawed in my opinion.

It essentially saves you from being chipped out twice if you have two full defensive bars. This is great and all, but there's a problem with it, which I'll explain below.

I think it should work much like Flawless Block: if you Flawless Block the first hit of a string, the rest of the hits in the string act as if they were blocked the same way (only in chip damage received).

I think avoiding chip should essentially work in a similar fashion.

The first hit in the string that drains your defensive bar should be the only one that does. The rest of the string cannot kill you. The same then applies to Final Breath.

What good does this mechanic do if a character has a block string that's 3+ hits? Some characters can circumvent this mechanic much easier than others because of how many hits may be in a string.

It would also add another layer to the game because the attacking person could always stagger the string and then start pressuring again, thus draining the second defensive bar. However, they could be risking it all by doing so if their staggers are lackluster.

This change could also lead to some absolutely hype comebacks. It would be unreal to see someone with 1% health and two defensive bars make a comeback against someone with like 45%~ health because of Last Breath. The threat would always remain that if they mess up, they're gonna get chipped/clipped.

What do you folks think? Agree? Disagree? If either, why?
 

jcbowie

...more deadly than the dawn.
So would this hypothetically work the same for really long strings and multi-hitting specials?
 

Jynks

some heroes are born, some made, some wondrous
Completely disagree.. last breath is one of the coolest mechanics in the game.

Some being better at closing out with chip is just more ways for characters to be unique. Balance doesn't mean identical. So what if some are better or worse at chip. Everything is the game is better or worse for some.. and that "texture" is what makes these games good.

It is funny as every few weeks there was a thread saying MK should revise how it handles chip death... I think last breath is a very elegant and near perfect solution to the problem of chip that has been inherited from the legacy of MK.. like you HAVE to have chip.. it is a MK game.
 

Eldriken

I smolder with generic rage.
Forum General
So would this hypothetically work the same for really long strings and multi-hitting specials?
Yes. Like, if a string is 7 consecutive hits or a special move has multiple hits, only the first hit would proc Avoid Chip Death or Last Breath.

After said string or special move ends, if you block another string/special move and have a second bar, there goes your Last Breath.

Now depending how that person's attack ended and the character you use, they may not be in a situation to safely poke you to chip you out for the win. This could be your chance to mount a comeback and possibly regenerate another defensive bar for another Last Breath (if it works this way. I've never seen it happen).

I don't see a problem with the way it is. That seems like a design choice and characters with longer strings are just better at chipping people out.
Yeah, you're right. I guess I just feel it's not useful enough in most cases considering it costs a defensive bar to use.
 

jcbowie

...more deadly than the dawn.
Yes. Like, if a string is 7 consecutive hits or a special move has multiple hits, only the first hit would proc Avoid Chip Death or Last Breath.

After said string or special move ends, if you block another string/special move and have a second bar, there goes your Last Breath.
If a string were cancelled into a special, would that take 2 defensive bars or still just the one since it would all be a part of the same block string?
 

Eldriken

I smolder with generic rage.
Forum General
If a string were cancelled into a special, would that take 2 defensive bars or still just the one since it would all be a part of the same block string?
It's all part of the same string since there was no interruption. So it would cost 1.
 

jcbowie

...more deadly than the dawn.
It's all part of the same string since there was no interruption. So it would cost 1.
Eh I still kinda like the idea. I generally like comeback mechanics like this.

Now let me ask you this, my specific thought is about d1xxdb4 with D'Vorah. Would that take away 2 bars or 1? It's a real block string but it wouldn't link on hit.
 

Eldriken

I smolder with generic rage.
Forum General
Eh I still kinda like the idea. I generally like comeback mechanics like this.

Now let me ask you this, my specific thought is about d1xxdb4 with D'Vorah. Would that take away 2 bars or 1? It's a real block string but it wouldn't link on hit.
I'm not sure about the second part. Hm.

My whole idea of this is that "Last Breath" means fuck all if the next hit is gonna kill you guaranteed because it's part of the same blockstring that used the Last Breath anyway.

It's not a Last Breath in most cases in my opinion. I look at "last breath" as "this is your absolute last chance to do this, don't fuck it up".

Perhaps I'm looking too much into my definition of what I feel it means. Either way, I think this would allow for some serious potential. It could be some exciting stuff.
 

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
My beef with the last breath is, when you are in last breath Flawless block takes away both of your defensive bar, it shouldn't be this way, flawless block at last breath shouldn't take any chip or bar
Oohh! That's a big deal. I didn't notice that.
 

Hitoshura

Head Cage
I'd like to suggest an idea that is used in a lot of fighting games: one can't die from chip damage. Why should anyone lose a match for playing defensively and waiting for an opportunity to make a comback?
 

Eldriken

I smolder with generic rage.
Forum General
I'd like to suggest an idea that is used in a lot of fighting games: one can't die from chip damage. Why should anyone lose a match for playing defensively and waiting for an opportunity to make a comback?
It's unique to MK (Injustice as well, actually). It's widely accepted as the norm for them. I don't dislike the feature. I do, however, want them to build on the mechanic in MK11 to make it more meaningful.
 

Cashual

PSN: Cansuela
I'd like to suggest an idea that is used in a lot of fighting games: one can't die from chip damage. Why should anyone lose a match for playing defensively and waiting for an opportunity to make a comback?
People have been talking about this for many many games. It’s just kind of part of the series identities, every bit a part of MK as the block button. Plenty of people don’t like the design choice, but a lot of people love them. I think chip death sort of fits the idea that MK traditionally is a more offensive focused game. The designers don’t want players to sit back and hold block.

I wouldn’t mind if they eliminated chip death but I do like the idea of this last breath mechanic and eldriken’s suggestion is interesting.
 
Hm imo Fatal Blows are a more important Problem they should look into first (the fact that there is such a huge difference between Fatal Blow Range/Startup and that they are armored so you kinda have to play super passiv against it).
Dont think the point of Last Breath is to survive entire multi hitting strings (attacks) but to give some RARE Comeback moments while FB happen every game.
 

OutworldKeith

Premium
Premium Supporter
I'd like to suggest an idea that is used in a lot of fighting games: one can't die from chip damage. Why should anyone lose a match for playing defensively and waiting for an opportunity to make a comback?
Great point! You can’t die from DOT damage, so why not do the same for chip damage? Going through all the trouble of making an entire mechanic.
 

Gaxkang

Noob
I think the main idea of Last Breath had more to do with not being immediately zoned to death...so I don't think they took strings into account much anyways.
 

Gaxkang

Noob
I'd like to suggest an idea that is used in a lot of fighting games: one can't die from chip damage. Why should anyone lose a match for playing defensively and waiting for an opportunity to make a comback?
It's an NRS thing...

I remember with Injustice 1 at an EVO championship the fight came down close, and people started booing when one player started using Superman's literal full screen projectile over and over to try for chip death.

In MK11 defense isn't a huge thing outside of whiff punishing, really. Blocking stuff don't lead to much a lot of the time, or anything.
 
Let me first say that I like the idea behind this mechanic, but it is flawed in my opinion.

It essentially saves you from being chipped out twice if you have two full defensive bars. This is great and all, but there's a problem with it, which I'll explain below.

I think it should work much like Flawless Block: if you Flawless Block the first hit of a string, the rest of the hits in the string act as if they were blocked the same way (only in chip damage received).

I think avoiding chip should essentially work in a similar fashion.

The first hit in the string that drains your defensive bar should be the only one that does. The rest of the string cannot kill you. The same then applies to Final Breath.

What good does this mechanic do if a character has a block string that's 3+ hits? Some characters can circumvent this mechanic much easier than others because of how many hits may be in a string.

It would also add another layer to the game because the attacking person could always stagger the string and then start pressuring again, thus draining the second defensive bar. However, they could be risking it all by doing so if their staggers are lackluster.

This change could also lead to some absolutely hype comebacks. It would be unreal to see someone with 1% health and two defensive bars make a comeback against someone with like 45%~ health because of Last Breath. The threat would always remain that if they mess up, they're gonna get chipped/clipped.

What do you folks think? Agree? Disagree? If either, why?
revised? people apparently hate chip kills now so it should be fine as is. some of those characters that circumvent it with multi hit strings or specials are giving up their turn for the chip and potential punishment. imagine removing chip to force "hype"
 

Rozalin1780

Good? Bad? I'm the one with the fans
If it functioned like flawless block does currently (flawless block the first hit and you negate chip from subsequent hits in a block string) it could still be bypassed by strings with gaps or intentionally canceling into a special that causes a gap. There are several strings in the game that have small gaps in them.

I think it’s fine the way it is other than if you flawless block a move at 1% it should not take away a bar of meter unless that chip would kill you. With how little damage a flawless block chip does, it might as well do 0. In the most optimal case, if you’re at 1%, you’d have to flawless block a d2 five times for it to chip you out. Most moves would be 20+ times. If you’re THAT good at flawless blocking, wtf are you doing at 1% in the first place?
 

GLoRToR

If you are not having fun doing something, stop it
My beef with the last breath is, when you are in last breath Flawless block takes away both of your defensive bar, it shouldn't be this way, flawless block at last breath shouldn't take any chip or bar
I fully disagree with this. It would make fb too powerful in my opinion.
 

LawAbidingCitizen

Cyrax, Kotal Kahn, NightWolf & Shang Tsung.
I don't like Chip Avoided & Last Breath for different reasons...
I actually liked that I could chip out my opponents in previous games and never had a problem with it. I'm not understanding why some who played other fighters felt chip death was cheap and forced a different fighters mechanic on MK11?
With that said I feel Last breath steals wins from the player who out played previously and if you wanted a hype comeback that existed long before this mechanic. It was hyper before it when the player avoided chip and hits and projectiles forcing wiffs but I digress.

But I have grown on the Last Breath mechanic and gave come to like it in some ways. But there is one huge problem!
Chip Avoided/Last Breath are supposed to cost a Defensive Bar each but they come back instantly on next round. So it costs nothing and can be used every round. That's insane! I feel that is completely cheap. Just like when breakaway has glitch that instantly returns bars when it is supposed to cost.

Strong defensive and offensive moves should have a hefty price for the trade off.
Last Breath
Breakaway
Flawless Block U+2

Should all limit what you can do after because they are very strong tools that can turn a losing match into a win with 1% health.
  • Last breath should cooldown for 15 seconds per bar on next round. Not instant regen.
  • Breakaway should have 20 seconds to replenish each bar.
  • Flawless Block Launcher 15 seconds for each bar. Currently it can replinish instantly or half that time depending what is used after(glitch) U+3 should only cost a bar(doesn't launch) for high risk low reward.