Should Kabal be banned in competitive play? (Community Discussion)

[teh_jawNie]

Reo already named her. Skarlet.

yea but who cares what reo thinks

 

[Hitoshura]

Is this thread still open?

 

[AYSAMO]

Kabal? nbd bro. Learn the matchup; don't pick a character that kabal rapes and then cry about it. If you have to face REO in a tournament glhf he'll probably stomp you with anyone in the cast. Level up.

/thread

 

[circle masher]

Because I play against high level players on a regualr bases and play the game a LOT.

When other high level players are coming out saying that they don't think Kabal should be banned, this clearly creates a time/space paradox then. Perhaps you do know how to judge whether something is broken or not, but this criteria you've given doesn't support that. So we're back to square one (AKA the stuff you're saying is subjective, not objective as you claim it is).

I don't know what he means by "I need to prove it". Does he mean I need to pick up Kabal and go to majors and win? Because there are other people doing that right now. And if he were having truely competitive match's, everyone and their dick wouldn't be picking him up so that they can deal with him. And if by that he means that I should state reasons why I think he should be banned until patched, I have done that multipal times as well.

By "need to prove it", he's saying you made a claim, and as somebody who has made that claim you should provide evidence to support it. Unfortunately, none of the stuff you've said has supported your claim in any clear way.

Arguably no MU's under 6-4.
Firstly, with "arguably" you realise this is subjective and that he may have 5-5s or perhaps eventually even 4-6s. Secondly, 4-6s, 5-5s and 6-4s are so competitive that this is COMPLETELY irrelevant.

No weaknesses.
That people know of YET. Even if no weaknesses are ever discovered for Kabal, if other characters are still highly competitive with him regardless of this then it's an irrelevant point.

Builds meter 2x + faster than any other fighter in the game.
Is irrelevant if other characters remain competitive with him.

Has better reset options at the end of a combo than SONYA... SONYA.
Is irrelevant if other characters remain competitive with him.

Arguably the best zoner.
Is irrelevant if other characters remain competitive with him.

Arguably the best rushdown.
Is irrelevant if other characters remain competitive with him.

Block infinite.
Is irrelevant if other characters remain competitive with him.

He is most likely going to ruin the game in the near future if he dosn't get nerfed/banned.
You're currently just being a paranoid alarmist. If the game ever gets to the point when Kabal has ruined it and there is no competition then I and loads of other people will agree it's time to ban him. We're not disagreeing with you for fun, you're just jumping the gun by a country-mile with talk of banning him.

These are my reasons why I think he should be banned. Can you disagree with any of these reasons?
And if not, can you read these and say he is fine in competitive play and nothing should be done about him? If so, then I simply disagree and that is the end of it.

At this point in time, yes, he is fine in competitive play and he should not be banned.

I agree. Its 6-4, on top of all the things in the list I have above. Not competitive.

No, those other traits come secondary to the match-up numbers.

 

[Primal Raptor]

So why is he so broken if it takes 3-6 months of practice with him just to get to the point where you can be considered good? Isn't that simply taking the time to learn a more difficult character? I think people are just mad cuz they can't learn him. I can learn almost any character in any fighting game, and I just didn't have the time to invest in Kabal....so it's MY fault, no one else's.

YOU all have had this game for 18 months(?) or so which is more than enough time to have a pocket Kabal. Can't learn multiple characters in MK9 cuz it's too complex. Bullshit. I played for 3 days and I disagree even at that point - there's no reason you can't have a main while going back and forth in practice mode w/ different characters as long as you keep your main as the 1st and last thing you touch everyday. Some people need less. The fact of the matter is there are better players than you and this game was likely given a learning curve for certain characters so it's not like your typical FG where some random who seriously SUCKS at FGs can pick up a good character, master a few basic bullshit tactics and manage to beat players way better than them.

The higher tiers being harder to use is a GOOD idea for just this reason.....why SHOULD the best character in the game be EASY to learn? This way it weeds out the truly skilled players who are good enough to use him, thus EARNING the right to be top tier. You guys want 95,000 fuckin Ryu's doing FADC into Ultra again? I'm so sick of seeing/playing Lazy-gamers who want easy wins w/ minimal effort, they can suck my dick until my asshole whistles dixie.

Time to either pick up Kabal , learn the MU with your current mains or find a new game. He's not getting banned, he's not getting nerfed, he's not going anywhere.

yeah but wen they are mastered they have numerous advantages in matchups that are unfair even with other mastered characters, point being

 

[AREZ God of War]

yeah but wen they are mastered they have numerous advantages in matchups that are unfair even with other mastered characters, point being

So master it MORE.

 

[Primal Raptor]

So master it MORE.

impossibruuu

 

[AC1984]

He's ok I guess...the easiest one to learn...which makes him the perfect pocket character as well....

 

[GGA soonk]

Make it so you can't cancel the dash?

Block Advantage
1,1,1 - -2
1,1,B+4 - -10
3 - -4
4 - -6
B+1 - -3
B+1,2 - -16
F+3 - -6
F+3,2 - -4
F+4 - -11

Great idea.

 

[Flagg]

 

[Eddy Wang]

 

[Death]

Make it so you can't cancel the dash?

Block Advantage
1,1,1 - -2
1,1,B+4 - -10
3 - -4
4 - -6
B+1 - -3
B+1,2 - -16
F+3 - -6
F+3,2 - -4
F+4 - -11

Great idea.

Dude you have a safe low and overhead as well. Just cancel it into one of those. Majority of the cast have worst options to cancel with.

 

[ForeverKing]

I would like to see him nerfed down to be on the same level of the rest of the top 5 honestly.

Do you really think he is easy to pick up? IMO he is the hardest fighter in the game to pick up. But you can still get him down pretty damn well in the time span of 1 month.

I think Skarlet is harder to use than Kabal, the only thing hard about Kabal is using multiple dash cancels in a combo. But you really don't need to

 

[ForeverKing]

This character literally has everything, safe overhead safe low, NDC into more pressure mixups or grab, mindless zoning, EX armored dash that goes across the screen and can be comboed off of. Take at least a few of these things away, he can't have them all!!!

 

[GGA soonk]

Dude you have a safe low and overhead as well. Just cancel it into one of those. Majority of the cast have worst options to cancel with.

Majority of cast doesn't have those shit values on their normals. Low is -12 and overhead is -9, so still at disadvantage, pushback or not. Can my low be +1 on block like yours?

Also, Reptile would like to argue that his low and overhead are in fact not safe, and I bet Cage can get a shadow kick in there if he really tried.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

yea, ONLINE, which means nothing to how the game is played at offline tournaments. You are not playing the game the way it is played normally.

This is not true at all.
Sure there are some timing differences.... but not all online experiences have "mud like" gameplay.
If that were the case, the first time online to offline people wouldn't place nearly as well as they do.

Can we at least put to rest the "execution barrier" as a huge giant cop out? Because it is, always has been, and always will be simply a cop out. Anyone who wants to put in about a few weeks can get adequate enough to place at tourneys. Depending on your offline scene, this process could be expedited even more so.

 

[DragonPick]

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Majority of cast doesn't have those shit values on their normals. Low is -12 and overhead is -9, so still at disadvantage, pushback or not. Can my low be +1 on block like yours?

Also, Reptile would like to argue that his low and overhead are in fact not safe, and I bet Cage can get a shadow kick in there if he really tried.

You can do your safe move and then pull out that 6frame +5 on block when close iaGB.

 

[AREZ God of War]

This is not true at all.
Sure there are some timing differences.... but not all online experiences have "mud like" gameplay.
If that were the case, the first time online to offline people wouldn't place nearly as well as they do.

Can we at least put to rest the "execution barrier" as a huge giant cop out? Because it is, always has been, and always will be simply a cop out. Anyone who wants to put in about a few weeks can get adequate enough to place at tourneys. Depending on your offline scene, this process could be expedited even more so.

You're missing the point. You can not take the words of what online-only players say about what needs fixing in the game. I refuse to believe there are many (if any) connections that play the game like Offline. I have 25MB and got 5 random D/S or D/Cs in less than 30 minutes on MK9, GameSpy is probably the worst server ever. I can play UMK3 on MKAK with someone from California, 3000 miles away and still have better connection than MK9 w/ someone 1 state away......and trust me, there are things that even on the BEST connection will always be different online. By condoning it you are only going to end up ruining the game offline.

And NO, there's alot of people who rely heavily on lag-wins, lag-tactics and bullshit, and that's why you'll never see alot of the so-called "best online players" at a tournament.

 

[GGA soonk]

You can do your safe move and then pull out that 6frame +5 on block when close iaGB.

Not counting the frames it takes me to get into the air, of course.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

You're missing the point. You can not take the words of what online-only players say about what needs fixing in the game. I refuse to believe there are many (if any) connections that play the game like Offline. I have 25MB and got 5 random D/S or D/Cs in less than 30 minutes on MK9, GameSpy is probably the worst server ever. I can play UMK3 on MKAK with someone from California, 3000 miles away and still have better connection than MK9 w/ someone 1 state away......and trust me, there are things that even on the BEST connection will always be different online. By condoning it you are only going to end up ruining the game offline.

And NO, there's alot of people who rely heavily on lag-wins, lag-tactics and bullshit, and that's why you'll never see alot of the so-called "best online players" at a tournament.

they already are at tournaments.... FOREVER KING... STB ShujinkyDink ..... Curbolicious..... Kevo da Man.
These guys all started online. The concepts stay the same, so you can learn the game at a high level online. To get full reaction times, yeah I agree you need to be offline.
But no you are dead wrong in saying that only the tournament players know whats up. Check probably knows more about this game than anyone and he doesn't even play it competitively.

BTW, you download speed means nothing if your upload speed is less than 2mb.

soonk I think jumping is taken into account on any instant air projectile. But if i'm wrong i'll eat the crow.

 

[AREZ God of War]

they already are at tournaments.... FOREVER KING... STB ShujinkyDink ..... Curbolicious..... Kevo da Man.
These guys all started online. The concepts stay the same, so you can learn the game at a high level online. To get full reaction times, yeah I agree you need to be offline.
But no you are dead wrong in saying that only the tournament players know whats up. Check probably knows more about this game than anyone and he doesn't even play it competitively.

BTW, you download speed means nothing if your upload speed is less than 2mb.

soonk I think jumping is taken into account on any instant air projectile. But if i'm wrong i'll eat the crow.

My U/L is nearly 4 MB and my ping is anywhere from 15 to 25 ALWAYS. Check has been an Offline player since NECX in 2010....and he is a bad example cuz he is quite simply a freak of nature when it comes to MK games (and a cool mother-fucker in person as well)....finding another person w/ Check's ability is like finding an INVISIBLE needle in a haystack......or an invisible needle in a Bubba Sparks

 

[THTB]

Majority of cast doesn't have those shit values on their normals. Low is -12 and overhead is -9, so still at disadvantage, pushback or not. Can my low be +1 on block like yours?

Also, Reptile would like to argue that his low and overhead are in fact not safe, and I bet Cage can get a shadow kick in there if he really tried.

Vs a bunch of the cast, saw/slam is a safe mixup that has range.

Saw in general is rape. Sweep range saw = safe low 9f projectile.

 

[GGA soonk]

Vs a bunch of the cast, saw/slam is a safe mixup that has range.

Saw in general is rape. Sweep range saw = safe low 9f projectile.

Says the Reptile player.

 

[THTB]

Says the Reptile player.

I'm lucky it's not safe vs me. Cuz I know it's dumb.