Should block breaker cost less meter?

[xXstealthflameXx]

http://testyourmight.com/threads/block-breakers-in-mkx.52589/
http://testyourmight.com/threads/psa-block-breakers-and-when-to-use-them.52446/

You beat me

 

[Sultani]

There's almost no good reason to use it unless you're about to get chipped out.

The bigger problem is breakers costing stamina when there are characters that don't need stamina to be effective. So the penalty for breaking is more severe for stamina dependent characters. A static penalty shouldnt have unintended effects.

 

[NorCalSamurai]

Easier block breakers is a nerf to everyone, but actually hits the non-50/50 characters much harder than the 50/50 characters. I don't think it's a good idea.

 

[SaltShaker]

it should cost 3

This.

The game isn't offensive enough. There need to be more option for offensive play. 3 bars and unable to combo break for the rest of the round is the only change I'd support.

 

[Zoidberg747]

If players can get away with it for 1 bar, I think it'll be abused to get out of the corner. 2 bars of meter, but only 1 bar (or maybe no bars) of stamina seems fair, so you can get out of pressure a little bit easier.

If you make it too good, the 50/50 characters get an even greater advantage over pressure/ block string characters, who are already considered weaker.

Block breakers and push block are never good at getting you out of the corner. Your opponent is one run away from putting you right back in.

Also corner carry is so good in this game that there should be more options to get out of them.

 

[SaltShaker]

Easier block breakers is a nerf to everyone, but actually hits the non-50/50 characters much harder than the 50/50 characters. I don't think it's a good idea.

Yes because when I'm getting pressured out the ass by Lao unable to do anything but block and take massive chip, or against Hellfire Scorpion, it would hurt my Cyber Kano more to be able to break with 1 bar of meter and half stamina than the current requirements. I agree.

 

[GAV]

I think its perfect the way it is.

 

[itz My Call]

Yes because when I'm getting pressured out the ass by Lao unable to do anything but block and take massive chip, or against Hellfire Scorpion, it would hurt my Cyber Kano more to be able to break with 1 bar of meter and half stamina than the current requirements. I agree.

You're possibly missing his point. The 50/50 characters are going to open you up regardless.

But when your character with no 50/50 starts offense, now you've made it harder for yourself

 

[SaltShaker]

You're possibly missing his point. The 50/50 characters are going to open you up regardless.

But when your character with no 50/50 starts offense, now you've made it harder for yourself

Not exactly. When you're fighting bs Erron doing a 50/50 in a +7 sand gernade into a 2nd 50/50 into guessing if they finish it or not, your odds of blocking all of that decrease substantially. If I was able to push block for a reasonable cost after the 1st blocked 50/50 starter I can avoid this entire chain that most of the time leads to full combo. If we both have similar health and I don't to guess after his 211 string at 3 different points, I can push block to avoid this 25% chance of blocking scenario. Etc.

This applies to many of the mixup characters.

If I'm pressuring and they push block me for whatever reason, they are doing me a favor in most scenarios since I would prefer not to be touching boots with them. I don't see how in any way making push block more viable benefits "50/50 and rushdown" more than a zoner/keepaway/defensive character.

 

[NorCalSamurai]

Yes because when I'm getting pressured out the ass by Lao unable to do anything but block and take massive chip, or against Hellfire Scorpion, it would hurt my Cyber Kano more to be able to break with 1 bar of meter and half stamina than the current requirements. I agree.

I see your point, but it would still be a nerf to your own offense as well, especially since Kano doesn't have an overhead. With one bar of meter, if you get a knockdown, you now have two options: throw and hope I'm not neutral ducking, or get blocked and knocked back, losing the corner for one bar and half stamina. I mean I guess you can njp, but I can just block and push on reaction.

You highlighted the sentence about 50/50 characters. How does a one bar block breaker hurt characters like Raiden, Kenshi, Sonya, Kung Jin, et cetera that apply their hi-lo mixup on the first hit? What does a one bar pushback do when you have to make the same guess that you'd be making normally?

Even for characters with an overhead. I mean, Johnny gets a d4 if he avoids the pushblock, Raiden gets 45%. The one bar pushblock hurts your offense all around, while only giving you a defensive boost in certain matchups, while the best 50/50 characters get a defensive boost and no real nerf to their offense.

 

[SaltShaker]

I see your point, but it would still be a nerf to your own offense as well, especially since Kano doesn't have an overhead. With one bar of meter, if you get a knockdown, you now have two options: throw and hope I'm not neutral ducking, or get blocked and knocked back, losing the corner for one bar and half stamina. I mean I guess you can njp, but I can just block and push on reaction.

You highlighted the sentence about 50/50 characters. How does a one bar block breaker hurt characters like Raiden, Kenshi, Sonya, Kung Jin, et cetera that apply their hi-lo mixup on the first hit? What does a one bar pushback do when you have to make the same guess that you'd be making normally?

Even for characters with an overhead. I mean, Johnny gets a d4 if he avoids the pushblock, Raiden gets 45%. The one bar pushblock hurts your offense all around, while only giving you a defensive boost in certain matchups, while the best 50/50 characters get a defensive boost and no real nerf to their offense.

It benefits greatly because when I'm fighting TG Raiden for example, I can do more damage zoning him and punishing Superman attempts more than anything else. When he gets in or pushes me to the corner, a character like Kano might as well put the control down and wait for round two. With an improved push block, I won't have to play beyond super human with my zoning, spacing, and awareness in the MU to win matches, since all he has to do is land one hit.

I just explained in the Erron MU how it would greatly benefit against him in the other post.

If 50/50 characters are fighting each other they're doing the same bs to each other so it cancels out.

I'll take being push blocked when I corner a character with Cyber Kano ANY DAY if that meant I had a viable push block when IN the corner against Raiden, Erron, Jax, etc. As of now defensive options are incredibly weak for characters without the top tier gameplan, and push block changes would go a long way towards better defense.

 

[BloodyNights]

I see your point, but it would still be a nerf to your own offense as well, especially since Kano doesn't have an overhead. With one bar of meter, if you get a knockdown, you now have two options: throw and hope I'm not neutral ducking, or get blocked and knocked back, losing the corner for one bar and half stamina. I mean I guess you can njp, but I can just block and push on reaction.

You highlighted the sentence about 50/50 characters. How does a one bar block breaker hurt characters like Raiden, Kenshi, Sonya, Kung Jin, et cetera that apply their hi-lo mixup on the first hit? What does a one bar pushback do when you have to make the same guess that you'd be making normally?

Even for characters with an overhead. I mean, Johnny gets a d4 if he avoids the pushblock, Raiden gets 45%. The one bar pushblock hurts your offense all around, while only giving you a defensive boost in certain matchups, while the best 50/50 characters get a defensive boost and no real nerf to their offense.

Let's be real here it would really only hurt characters who thrive on doing a ton of chip damage, into a + on block EX special. So Kung Lao, Erron Black, Hellfire Scorp, Tanya, Shinnok, Fisticuffs Cage. For other characters like Kano for instance, why would the opponent waste a bar of meter to push block him, and even if they did, they wouldn't do it very often. Even if it buffed the 50/50 characters defense, it would help the actual defensive characters so much more.

 

[NorCalSamurai]

It benefits greatly because when I'm fighting TG Raiden for example, I can do more damage zoning him and punishing Superman attempts more than anything else. When he gets in or pushes me to the corner, a character like Kano might as well put the control down and wait for round two. With an improved push block, I won't have to play beyond super human with my zoning, spacing, and awareness in the MU to win matches, since all he has to do is land one hit.

I just explained in the Erron MU how it would greatly benefit against him in the other post.

If 50/50 characters are fighting each other they're doing the same bs to each other so it cancels out.

I'll take being push blocked when I corner a character with Cyber Kano ANY DAY if that meant I had a viable push block when IN the corner against Raiden, Erron, Jax, etc. As of now defensive options are incredibly weak for characters without the top tier gameplan, and push block changes would go a long way towards better defense.

Fair enough. I don't like the idea of it being so cheap for everyone, but I do see your point. It'd help me with Jax, that much is for sure. Just kinda seems a bit matchup dependent and situational to a apply a system wide change. We'll just have to wait and see.

 

[Bryck Walle]

Game is just barely 2 months old. Stop asking if people want the game engine changed. It should stay 2 meters. You don't want to eat the mix up? Block correctly and push them away. Another chance at not getting wrecked.

 

[BloodyNights]

Fair enough. I don't like the idea of it being so cheap for everyone, but I do see your point. It'd help me with Jax, that much is for sure. Just kinda seems a bit matchup dependent and situational to a apply a system wide change. We'll just have to wait and see.

I actually don't see it as cheap, you don't gain much meter on block, or do you even gain meter on block? lol the lack of stamina afterwards means if they hit you unless you had an x-ray stocked and your stamina came back you have to eat the next combo.

Really It feels like a serious balanced change. pushing someone away doesn't do damage, and costs your resources. It shouldn't cost the same amount as breaking a 50% combo, and character's like the ones I mentioned above punish you for blocking...some even get too much off of it. Most 50/50 characters are in your face type of characters, just means they will have to get in again to start it up, that's all. And on the receiving end they usually are not that defensive, unless it's like Sub-Zero or something.

 

[M2Dave]

1 bar of super meter + 1 bar of stamina for very obvious reasons.

The block breaker must currently be one of the most worthless gameplay elements ever implemented in a fighting game. Only true 50/50 mix up scrubs want no improvements.

 

[Arkane Slim]

What NRS really need to do (and what we need to really talk about) is taking away chip damage on Normals (like Street Fighter)
With such a combo heavy game, it's just dumb to not to have this option.
I could never truly take this game serious in terms of balance until they do that.

 

[protools27]

1 bar of super meter + 1 bar of stamina for very obvious reasons.

The block breaker must currently be one of the most worthless gameplay elements ever implemented in a fighting game. Only true 50/50 mix up scrubs want no improvements.

I watched fatal 8 and all tournaments after that, attended combo breaker, and watched TCW and numerous other locals, and I don't think I have ever seen a block breaker used in tournament. It clearly needs to change, or just be removed from the game entirely

 

[Arkane Slim]

I get why 50/50's are so strong... It's because MKX has a block button. But 50/50's are still and will always be A GUESS GAMING.
As I will always say guessing is not skill, it's luck. Maybe in some rare occasion you can actually pick up on a read of player tendencies, but still...

Anyway, IMO offense is at a strong level and defense is not a strong point unless you play 2 out of 3 Sub-Zero variations. Because 50/50's are strong, by eliminating chip on normals, you reward those that have to Guess Right...

 

[BloodyNights]

I get why 50/50's are so strong... It's because MKX has a block button. But 50/50's are still and will always be A GUESS GAMING.
As I will always say guessing is not skill, it's luck. Maybe in some rare occasion you can actually pick up on a read of player tendencies, but still...

Anyway, IMO offense is at a strong level and defense is not a strong point unless you play 2 out of 3 Sub-Zero variations. Because 50/50's are strong, by eliminating chip on normals, you reward those that have to Guess Right...

Chip on nomals has been an MK thing since forever, it probably won't ever change to be honest.

 

[Hitoshura]

There is a 28.4% disagreement rate for the thread question. It should read 0%. TYM community, seriously? It's obvious that block breaker is useless. Now, this is just and idea I thought up of. We need this push block change to help play against this 50/50 meta at the moment. This game isn't like League where the game is ongoing and meta changes over seasons/updates changes. It will stop releasing patches eventually and I'm sure a majority of players don't want this game to turn out like Injustice. It honestly should cost less meter for this games push block, but they would need to decrease meter gain universally because certain characters build meter way too quickly in this game and this change can easily exploit this to keep the match one sided if their opponent doesn't have as good as tools to play the poke/footsie game with them. This overall adjustment would make the meta game change to something more footsie and reading base. The meter building nerf needs to be decently small though. Nothing major that would destroy characters who need meter in their...well, to do anything for that matter of fact. Shinnok needs that meter to dig in his toy chest. If done right, one would still build meter at a solid rate, but you'd have to be smarter with how you use it.

I don't know how ya'll feel about that, but it's better than viewing a dead presidents decapitated head being flipped around in order to claim victory over someone; and If one would fuck up that celebratory head flipping game they would still be on good ground, because you know, that meta game.

 

[buyacushun]

I think a big part of the problem is that we are only thinking within the confines of how the game is right now.

Nrs still has to fix the "everything is safe OS". If they can't just tell us right now or even if it's difficult and will take quite some time. Then adjust any 50/50s to require a good risk/reward (like no OS Raiden. )

As for the breakers, I personally would like to see backdashes cost less. I honestly feel it's dumb you only get 2 backdashes in this game. I've never heard of a central part of a game being limited so hard in any game ever. If you got say 3 backdashes and made block breakers cost 2 you could get one backdash while the rest is on hard cooldown or semi-hard cooldown. Imo, block breakers could also cost 0-1 bar along with this.

TLDR: 1) The game still needs some major changes in bugs OS fixes.
2) System changes could change the whole system and not just a part. (SfxT revamp comes to mind)

 

[WakeUp DP]

This is the first topic specifically about block breakers. Search came up with no other block breaker threads.

As for block breaker, it isn't very useful for sure. 1 bar, 1 stamina, a halfway point between normal and extended cooldown. That would make it usable for sure.

If you search for "pushblocks" you will find my thread!

 

[SaJa]

What I don't like is the double backdash that destroy your entire stamina t.t

 

[Scoot Magee]

I made this thread about a month ago and since I'm not Pig or Sonic I got blown up for it lol.

But yeah 1/3 should be ideal.

You didn't get blown up, you asked for the thread to be closed and said you were done posting in it lol.

I'm still against 1 bar block breaker, especially if it costs 1 bar of stamina. They'll be way too much incentive to block break and it will hurt characters that don't really have the same 50/50 tools as others and rely on block pressure to open people up.

I can't believe how many people want to change this so badly. Imo its a terrible idea.