Should block breaker cost less meter?

[Groove Heaven]

I've heard it said many times but I can't find a thread devoted to this.

As it stands, there are almost no scenarios where block breaker is worth the 2 bars of meter that it costs. If anything, it's a last-ditch effort in situations where you're about to die against a high-pressure character.

-If you get opened up, you can break your opponent's combo and avoid taking a guaranteed ~30% or more
-If you get pressured, you can pushblock your opponent and avoid taking some chip even thought you may have other options in that situation like armor or trying to poke out.

These 2 situations should not cost you the same level of resources and I don't get why they do.

I'm totally open to opposing arguments, this just doesn't seem intuitive to me. The only thing I can think is that NRS actually did intend for it to be a very situational tool or thought 1 bar was too cheap a price to stop the pressure game from working as intended. In that case I think a good compromise would be that block breaker still costs 2 bars but doesn't drain your stamina meter like a combo breaker.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

There actually was a huge debate thread dedicated to this. Either I suck at searching or it's in the Netherrealm.

IMO Maybe full stamina bar is fine but maybe 1 bar cost only.

 

[Groove Heaven]

There actually was a huge debate thread dedicated to this. Either I suck at searching or it's in the Netherrealm.

IMO Maybe full stamina bar is fine but maybe 1 bar cost only.

Ah shit really? I tried to find a thread about this too, was surprised when I couldn't find one.

The more I think about it the more I could see how heavily it would alter the game. I'm starting to like the no stamina drain idea more than 1 bar.

 

[BloodyNights]

Personally I think it should cost 1 bar of meter, and 1 bar of stamina, but it shouldn't push them back as far, leaving both characters standing at about jump distance away.

 

[Genei Jin]

it should cost 3

 

[itz My Call]

I think that's a one string problem.

Anyway i think they should leave block breaker alone. Offense is ahead of defense right now, true enough. But people don't know the strings yet. They haven't figured out d2 isn't the only anti air. And people aren't really looking at risk reward on blocking high or low.

I'd wait till people really figure out how to play before making sweeping engine changes

 

[Icy Black Deep]

We need an inverse guard meter. It would fill up when you block an attack (and drain over time) and after a string or two you could spend it for an otherwise-free push block.

 

[RYX]

imo just make stamina recover sooner

4 seconds of not being able to backdash is murder, especially if you're already cornered

 

[BloodyNights]

I think that's a one string problem.

Anyway i think they should leave block breaker alone. Offense is ahead of defense right now, true enough. But people don't know the strings yet. They haven't figured out d2 isn't the only anti air. And people aren't really looking at risk reward on blocking high or low.

I'd wait till people really figure out how to play before making sweeping engine changes

To be fair my suggestion still heavily favors rush down characters. It will just stop some characters from delivering 30%+ Chip damage into mix ups left and right due to certain ex specials like Sand Grenade, or Kung Lao's hat being + on block, while also gaining a lot of meter for blocked strings. You still will force the opponent to spend meter and will still be at an advantage due to them losing meter and you took no damage, while they still took the initial chip.

 

[skater11]

Push block 1 bar please. And breaker only half a stamina. So you have 1 option to do after breaker. Wether it be ex interact able, backdash, run or whatever. 1 bar of stamina.

 

[WakeUp DP]

I made this thread about a month ago and since I'm not Pig or Sonic I got blown up for it lol.

But yeah 1/3 should be ideal.

 

[BigMilk]

No is the truth but yes was to good to pass up

 

[Error]

#BuffDefense

 

[RNLDRGN]

This is the 3rd thread on this topic now lol

 

[protools27]

I don't see why it shouldn't be 1 bar, meter is already way more valuable in this game then, let's say, injustice, and at 1/3 instead of 1/4 (from injustice) it would still cost more in this game. I think it would be good to help level out the major difference between offense and defense in this game

 

[THTB]

This is the 3rd thread on this topic now lol

This is the first topic specifically about block breakers. Search came up with no other block breaker threads.

As for block breaker, it isn't very useful for sure. 1 bar, 1 stamina, a halfway point between normal and extended cooldown. That would make it usable for sure.

 

[wsj515]

I think that's a one string problem.

Anyway i think they should leave block breaker alone. Offense is ahead of defense right now, true enough. But people don't know the strings yet. They haven't figured out d2 isn't the only anti air. And people aren't really looking at risk reward on blocking high or low.

I'd wait till people really figure out how to play before making sweeping engine changes

I'm usually all about the whole "wait and see" mindset for changes, but its pretty clear that block breakers are currently useless, and the game is getting mature enough that saying "people don't know the strings yet" is kind of ridiculous, especially in this instance.

 

[itz My Call]

I'm usually all about the whole "wait and see" mindset for changes, but its pretty clear that block breakers are currently useless, and the game is getting mature enough that saying "people don't know the strings yet" is kind of ridiculous, especially in this instance.

But they don't. Sure a handful of top players might know some of them, but it's kinda impossible at this point. Or you think their eating Sonya strings into military stance all the way to top 8 on purpose?

Calling a less than two month old game mature is the only thing ridiculous

 

[wsj515]

But they don't. Sure a handful of top players might know some of them, but it's kinda impossible at this point. Or you think their eating Sonya strings into military stance all the way to top 8 on purpose?

Calling a less than two month old game mature is the only thing ridiculous

I didn't call the game mature lol, what a flagrant twisting of words. Not sure what you are referring to with sonya, a 50/50 will always be a guess, and gaps in strings have nothing to do with block breaker. The game has for sure been out long enough to have a good enough understanding of strings to realize that block breaker needs to be buffed, thats for damn sure.

 

[itz My Call]

I didn't call the game mature lol, what a flagrant twisting of words. Not sure what you are referring to with sonya, a 50/50 will always be a guess, and gaps in strings have nothing to do with block breaker. The game has for sure been out long enough to have a good enough understanding of strings to realize that block breaker needs to be buffed, thats for damn sure.

I brought up Sonya because she shows that people don't know all the strings yet. I misread you on the mature thing. Sorry.

My point is that people arent doing everything they can on defense yet. They aren't good at defense in this game at the moment, and the way they protect neutral space hasn't been refined yet either.

Universally buffing defense before people are actually good at defense is too drastic of a change at this point.

Wait till people are actually good at defending before making a judgment that defense needs a buff

 

[Bender]

I've heard it said many times but I can't find a thread devoted to this.

As it stands, there are almost no scenarios where block breaker is worth the 2 bars of meter that it costs. If anything, it's a last-ditch effort in situations where you're about to die against a high-pressure character.

-If you get opened up, you can break your opponent's combo and avoid taking a guaranteed ~30% or more
-If you get pressured, you can pushblock your opponent and avoid taking some chip even thought you may have other options in that situation like armor or trying to poke out.

These 2 situations should not cost you the same level of resources and I don't get why they do.

I'm totally open to opposing arguments, this just doesn't seem intuitive to me. The only thing I can think is that NRS actually did intend for it to be a very situational tool or thought 1 bar was too cheap a price to stop the pressure game from working as intended. In that case I think a good compromise would be that block breaker still costs 2 bars but doesn't drain your stamina meter like a combo breaker.

If players can get away with it for 1 bar, I think it'll be abused to get out of the corner. 2 bars of meter, but only 1 bar (or maybe no bars) of stamina seems fair, so you can get out of pressure a little bit easier.

If you make it too good, the 50/50 characters get an even greater advantage over pressure/ block string characters, who are already considered weaker.

 

[GuerillaTactix]

1 bar meter 1 bar stamina sounds great. I will say though after this change Takeda WILL be top 5. After the block breaker his normals are just gunna hit first and people will have to hold that. lol!

Once again.. #bufftakeda

 

[chemist4hire]

I think pushblock in this game is a useless mechanic, no matter how much it cost. Its not a good enough defensive option to avoid chip, and it makes it even harder for characters that cant force a mix up to open somebody up.

The more I think about it I think a defensive roll option would add to this game. It would help in the footies game and be an option to avoid the mix up that lead to a 50/50 guessing game when it is forced upon you.

The roll would:

1. Be invincible on start up but will lose to throws and command grabs from start to finish. Throws received while in roll state are non techable, so if your opponent reads it he can do a MB throw and force the 50/50 guessing game on you. Towards the end of roll, it can be punished by an opponent who read the roll and waited to punish it.

2. Be non cancelable into or out of. Its main use would be to force whiffed strings on a read, and to punish those whiffs after you come out of roll recovery and to escape corner pressure that can lead to 50/50 at the risk of being thrown or punished on a read.

3. Cannot be done from delayed wake up.

4. Only moves in the forward direction. Its distance and time is set and universal to the cast. This means that if your opponent has a way of crossing your inputs in the corner, he could possibly make you roll into the corner and eat a big punish.

5. Would cost 1 bar of stamina.

These are just some thoughts. Maybe others have better ideas. I think a direction and the stance swtich button should be used to input the roll command.

 

[Braindead]

This is the first topic specifically about block breakers. Search came up with no other block breaker threads.

As for block breaker, it isn't very useful for sure. 1 bar, 1 stamina, a halfway point between normal and extended cooldown. That would make it usable for sure.

http://testyourmight.com/threads/block-breakers-in-mkx.52589/
http://testyourmight.com/threads/psa-block-breakers-and-when-to-use-them.52446/

 

[wsj515]

I brought up Sonya because she shows that people don't know all the strings yet. I misread you on the mature thing. Sorry.

My point is that people arent doing everything they can on defense yet. They aren't good at defense in this game at the moment, and the way they protect neutral space hasn't been refined yet either.

Universally buffing defense before people are actually good at defense is too drastic of a change at this point.

Wait till people are actually good at defending before making a judgment that defense needs a buff

I'm not saying we should rush to buff block breakers this instant. My point is that it is very very clear, even as young as the game is, that block breakers are completely useless. I'm not proposing how to change them, but it is easy to see that the mechanic is garbage, no matter how much better people get at neutral and general defense.