Should any D1's be a low?

[SaucyD0ge]

thats a stupid arguement, a low d1 doesnt really do anything for scarecrow, and i doubt it does much for attrocitus since i don't believe he has a overhead starter anyway. and yes im aware he has overheads, but none of his strings start with one.

and tbh the only issue with supergirls is that is causes a low profile, hitting low isnt that much of a problem. Brainiacs is intended to be used as part of his mix.

Walking back to block to create space for your own character to breath and lows will prevent said tactic.However having your fastest crouching option being also your back block check that can also combo for no reason at all...
Does that sound fun and interactive for you?

 

[Invincible Salads]

Walking back to block to create space for your own character to breath and lows will prevent said tactic.However having your fastest crouching option being also your back block check that can also combo for no reason at all...
Does that sound fun and interactive for you?

wouldnt be that much of an issue for me. i think you guys are just complaining. considering the range where that tactic is effective is pretty small.

 

[Crusty]

To my character it’s not a matter of them being low, it’s the ability to use my d1 at all in that situation.

Low hitting d1s go under his. I personally hope they address that more than anything

 

[Invincible Salads]

To my character it’s not a matter of them being low, it’s the ability to use my d1 at all in that situation.

Low hitting d1s go under his. I personally hope they address that more than anything

yes, the low profiling is the issue if anything.

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

I don't understand this "universal" mindset of TYM sometimes. Where people believe everyone needs to have the same jump normals. Or everyone's backdash and walk speed should be the same.

If the character is different from another, they need to be unique in their own way. It's the nature of fighting games.

I think a lot of newer NRS players should try other fighting games out. And actually learn to become decent at them, it'll change a lot of these philosophies.

 

[SaucyD0ge]

I don't understand this "universal" mindset of TYM sometimes. Where people believe everyone needs to have the same jump normals. Or everyone's backdash and walk speed should be the same.

If the character is different from another, they need to be unique in their own way. It's the nature of fighting games.

I think a lot of newer NRS players should try other fighting games out. And actually learn to become decent at them, it'll change a lot of these philosophies.

I get the movement and moveset part, but a down 1 check is pretty free.And when their d1 can check you for buttons, for backwards movement and can launch, it gets crazy.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

I've always thought pokes converting into full combos was a really meh idea.

The problem is bigger than that. Crossups are already a significant opening method in back-to-block fighters, but NRS also love having overhead and lows fucking everywhere in all their character strings.

There's nothing "wrong" with that, but it makes balance more about memorizing the attack properties of every character than playing solid neutral. Especially given how stupid punishing can feel and how inconsistent block-stun duration is depending on the string or attack.

It's just too much MK that has carried over to IGAU. I hate to say this bc I love NRS' game direction, but they could take more and more inspiration from Japanese 2D fighters and make an even better game in the future. Not every character needs 2 lows, 2 overheads, and an ambiguous crossup that ALL lead to 40% damage combos.

Yes. All of my yes.

I'm looking at you, Flash.
Not 100% JUST at you, but this is round two for you.
Be unique, be different, be capable, all that stuff, yes.
But don't tell me a character needs to have that much. It's a bad look everyone already looked over once with Batgirl because "Sonic was the only one placing with him," and there are more tourney Flash players than I think any other character right now. And even if there weren't, tournament presence or lack thereof isn't gonna make the experience of your game feel any less like actual repeated Flash Kicks/Bat Cartwheels to the nads.

 

[Snibbor]

The problem is bigger than that. Crossups are already a significant opening method in back-to-block fighters, but NRS also love having overhead and lows fucking everywhere in all their character strings.

There's nothing "wrong" with that, but it makes balance more about memorizing the attack properties of every character than playing solid neutral. Especially given how stupid punishing can feel and how inconsistent block-stun duration is depending on the string or attack.

It's just too much MK that has carried over to IGAU. I hate to say this bc I love NRS' game direction, but they could take more and more inspiration from Japanese 2D fighters and make an even better game in the future. Not every character needs 2 lows, 2 overheads, and an ambiguous crossup that ALL lead to 40% damage combos.

Every character has 2 lows, 2 overheads and an ambiguous cross up? Are we playing the same game?

 

[Brain-main]

NOPE!

brains d1 is what sold me on him.
The first character to have a low d1 that isn't a kick!

I developed a bad low-poke spamming habit in mk9 and never shook it so I just incorporate it in my playstyle by finding chars with good low pokes.

 

[MartianMagic]

Spamshot and B123girl should not have low d1s.

Best comment of the thread. God I wish for this

 

[Eldriken]

I absolutely hate d1s that hit low. But to say no one should have one would be silly.

Every character has 2 lows, 2 overheads and an ambiguous cross up? Are we playing the same game?

He clearly wasn't talking about Injustice 2. He probably wasn't talking about any game in particular at all and was just using that as an example.

 

[Rude]

Holy shit. Just when you thought people had complained about everything....

...we have d1 nerf demanders.

Dear God.

 

[Kooron Nation]

Holy shit. Just when you thought people had complained about everything....

...we have d1 nerf demanders.

Dear God.

Thanks for your insightful discussion on the topic

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

Holy shit. Just when you thought people had complained about everything....

...we have d1 nerf demanders.

Dear God.

In my defense, my position against pokes leading to full combos, it's really specifically only about a character or three, It works in Injustice, but that's because most of the time it doesn't lead to insane results. Beyond those choice exceptions, you may as well let it be.

 

[God Confirm]

Brainiac and Flash would be dead without it. Yes, some D1's should be low

 

[SaucyD0ge]

Brainiac and Flash would be dead without it. Yes, some D1's should be low

Brainiac and Flash, I get it:50/50 X has scarred your poor soul beyond repair.Now please tell me why Deadshot and Supergirl of all people need it.

 

[Rude]

Brainiac and Flash, I get it:50/50 X has scarred your poor soul beyond repair.Now please tell me why Deadshot and Supergirl of all people need it.

Because it's a part of what makes them good?

Because characters should be allowed to be good?

I don't see how this is a real topic. This is such a non-issue.

 

[Rude]

Thanks for your insightful discussion on the topic

You're welcome. Anytime.

Which do you suppose is more productive: Grinding and learning how to deal with it, thus leveling up as a player or complaining about it on the internet?

 

[DeftMonk]

To make an analogy, a low hitting down 1 would be a jet.A far and low hitting down 1 would equate to a fighter jet.So tell me, how does a Honda(stubby down 1) fight against a fighter jet which outspaces and outdoes it completely?

I don’t want any down 1 to be low in fact.It just makes some characters feel left out of a special treat that cheeky rich kid next door did get.

Game balance is based around a characters entire kit not just one button. I am sure a lot of thought goes into these decisions such as 6f d1s or massively plus on hit d1s. This is the same argument I've seen you make countless times as to why batman needs his trait it fits his toolkit and he needs it. How about every one has 7f mid d1 and can choose to use their original trait or batman's trait. After all when you remove the low d1s from their kit, they now need trait bats too.

 

[SaucyD0ge]

Game balance is based around a characters entire kit not just one button. I am sure a lot of thought goes into these decisions such as 6f d1s or massively plus on hit d1s. This is the same argument I've seen you make countless times as to why batman needs his trait it fits his toolkit and he needs it. How about every one has 7f mid d1 and can choose to use their original trait or batman's trait. After all when you remove the low d1s from their kit, they now need trait bats too.

Batman doesn’t have excellent footsie normals except for f2(sometimes),
what tool are Deadshot and Supergirl lacking in footsies and neutral for them to have trait bats or a low d1?

 

[Drag_Luke]

Deadshot d1 is 7f, can't even enter in a lot of gaps or d1 into a decent combo.

Supergirl has no overhead, blocking her is pretty easy. Low or mid changes nothing. When it's her turn just block low the first hit. Answer to the "terrible insane op" d1 breath with a simple d1+combo in the gap.
I would instead discuss of how i can't use the Joker ji2 if i read the SG d1 cause low profile but wathever.
(Probably wrong example due to Joker being ultra flawed but i like to bring him in sometimes)

I get your argument, making pokes mid isn't a terrible idea, but there is a better chance of balance in the current version. Some pgs deserve better d1 and some worse due to their design, Atrocitus has a crazy pressure so his d1 is not optimal but it has a decent hitbox and does full combo. Also this is Injustice, low d1s are part of the mix like unblockables. Every game has different features. Changing it now would be nonsense and also unneeded cause no one thinks low d1s are that strong.

 

[God Confirm]

Brainiac and Flash, I get it:50/50 X has scarred your poor soul beyond repair.Now please tell me why Deadshot and Supergirl of all people need it.

i didn't say they did, as I don't speak on characters I don't know inside out.

 

[PetulantWaste]

Let me talk about Supergirl's d1 vs Joker

I just think want you guys to understand how stupid this move is against certain characters.

Supergirl d1 is 7 f and is -4 on block. If Supergirl is mashing d1 then you need a 10f move to beat it and an 11f move to trade.

Joker's fastest mid is s2. Supergirl can low profile the first hit so it's essentially a 13-15 frame move against d1. So that's basically a block infinite.

What about Joker's d1 you say? It's got close to half the range of Supergirl's d1. Meaning SG can sit just outside your range and press d1d1d1d1d1d1 for the whole match until she feels like mixing in breath which, btw, is also safe.

If her d1 was a mid you could parry this move. It's a hard read but at least it's an option. Without that you just have to sit there and hold it.

 

[Rude]

Let me talk about Supergirl's d1 vs Joker

I just think want you guys to understand how stupid this move is against certain characters.

Supergirl d1 is 7 f and is -4 on block. If Supergirl is mashing d1 then you need a 10f move to beat it and an 11f move to trade.

Joker's fastest mid is s2. Supergirl can low profile the first hit so it's essentially a 13-15 frame move against d1. So that's basically a block infinite.

What about Joker's d1 you say? It's got close to half the range of Supergirl's d1. Meaning SG can sit just outside your range and press d1d1d1d1d1d1 for the whole match until she feels like mixing in breath which, btw, is also safe.

If her d1 was a mid you could parry this move. It's a hard read but at least it's an option. Without that you just have to sit there and hold it.

Oh my god. A block infinite. Really.

I can't....

Do you know what a block infinite even is?

 

[Rude]

Let me talk about Supergirl's d1 vs Joker

I just think want you guys to understand how stupid this move is against certain characters.

Supergirl d1 is 7 f and is -4 on block. If Supergirl is mashing d1 then you need a 10f move to beat it and an 11f move to trade.

Joker's fastest mid is s2. Supergirl can low profile the first hit so it's essentially a 13-15 frame move against d1. So that's basically a block infinite.

What about Joker's d1 you say? It's got close to half the range of Supergirl's d1. Meaning SG can sit just outside your range and press d1d1d1d1d1d1 for the whole match until she feels like mixing in breath which, btw, is also safe.

If her d1 was a mid you could parry this move. It's a hard read but at least it's an option. Without that you just have to sit there and hold it.

Okay, so no, it's not a block infinite and no, Joker doesn't have to hold it.

Let's say Supergirl is mashing d1. Joker can stand outside its range and whiff punish with b1. How do I know this?

Well, Supergirl's d1 recovers in something like 15 frames. Joker's b1 starts in 9. Now I understand that this is some incredibly hard math, but if she does d1 again after whiffing a d1, Joker's b1 will interrupt.

But wait! There's more! Say she's doing repeated d1s on block. No Supergirl would ever do this but for the sake of the "block infinite" let's say she does.

Do you know what happens if you block the d1 and then b1? Would you care to guess? Why, you interrupt the second d1!!!

Isn't that just amazing?

Not only that, but his d1 will interrupt a d1 into breath!!! I'm sure that'll come in hand, by golly.

The more you know!