Question - A-List Should a list be nerfed

[Wigy]

I would welcome playing your cassie all day against my Liu Kang no problem at all.

Side note I think Johnny is good enough, but I do hate the down play comparisons against Liu Kang. They are similar but have different advantages to me.

In terms of needing nerfs.

Characters with 8f pokes get rolled over by liu pretty badly in a stupid way. Basically makes all those matchups retarded, i play takeda by the way and friend mains liu... i really do know the pain.

 

[DelSchokoladenSaft]

Kotal Kahn needs a teleport, fast low projectile, midscreen njp with sword, and be able to run cancel b3, 11, 2, and b1.

He's fine, that's the whole point to play A-List.
Also, they need to fix Bo' Rai Cho's fart cancels, they're wet ones.

 

[DrManhattan]

Yes he should. And so should all of the other over powered offensive characters in this game.

Unless u use someone with insane offense you literally cannot play the game.

The games lacks variability.

Buff defense and nerf offense

 

[M.D.]

Everyone who cries about A-list surely hasn't played Tanya yet

 

[Asodimazze]

Johnny doesn't need any nerf, he needs to have some hitboxes fixed and that's all.
There are many characters that are better than him

 

[Wigy]

Cage is not honest man lol. That f3 free meterless jailing tool is godlike, his frames on his cancels are too plus. How can a character lock you down 100% each time he has stamina and people say thats honest and he has no dirt?

Ive heard a few cage mains say a list is dumb. I use liu because ive always like the character, but all these crazy lock down plus strings is something ive never agreed with but the character i like has it so i use it. I expect liu and johnny to get them frames loosened up. If you saw vendetta, xinok,mike metroid or dizzy use him, youd see why hes not remaining this way forever.

Well hes also a rushdown character with terrible fucking jump-ins a 9 frame high and slow pokes, yes his d4 is amazing but it is slow nonetheless. He heavily relies on being able to jail properly.

His +frames don't lead to much but a little chip if you're blocking properly.

 

[Mikemetroid]

Lol A-List is pretty fucked. Slow start-ups are the only reason A-List isn't GOD. (and Johnny's universal issues).

However, he doesn't need nerfs, he can't block infinite people forever like Liu Kang/Tanya/etc. Its more just long periods of jail-time. Kind of like MK9 his counter part (f33exfb, f3, f3, etc) but wayyyy harder to execute.

 

[kelevra]

Cage is not honest man lol. That f3 free meterless jailing tool is godlike, his frames on his cancels are too plus. How can a character lock you down 100% each time he has stamina and people say thats honest and he has no dirt?

Ive heard a few cage mains say a list is dumb. I use liu because ive always like the character, but all these crazy lock down plus strings is something ive never agreed with but the character i like has it so i use it. I expect liu and johnny to get them frames loosened up. If you saw vendetta, xinok,mike metroid or dizzy use him, youd see why hes not remaining this way forever.

Lets be realistic here.
He has no real 50/50 so the only option (vs a competent opponent) is to do go for jailing blockstrings and make him guess when/if you are going for the grab/stagger-f2/113skrc e.t.c.
His cancels having gaps would completeley break a-list because your opponent doesnt have to respect the pressure anymore.

 

[SylverRye]

Hell at NEC when vendetta used a list people shouted

Everyone who cries about A-list surely hasn't played Tanya yet

You can armor tanyas delayed rekkas, you can backdash them too. Her b1 2+4 can be blocked and them neutral ducked and punished. People lose to tanya due to mu experience. Shes boring and simple imo, but has gaps everywhere. Our cancel characters dont unless we mess up a cancel.

 

[DaZengie]

He doesn't need nerfs. He's a pretty honest character compared to other characters in MKX. A-list users work really hard to get the skrc on point. Even harder to do it frame perfectly. One screw up = full combo punish. His damage is on par, but not ridiculous, and also depends on his stamina. He's got 2 great moves (d4, f3) but his jump 1/2 is awful, his jump is super floaty, and his zoning isnt even scary. You can duck forceballs at 3/4 screen away. He's + on a lot of his strings after a skrc, but you have to hold the pressure until he's out of stamina or armor out at the right time. This is not much different from other characters with run cancel pressure. It's just that A-list relies on stamina + block strings to open you up, whereas some other characters rely on 50/50. At least you can armor out between certain strings, but if you don't you can just hold block or fuzzy guard the 113 or 11 f2 and at worst eat a throw (which you can still make a read and tech when Johnny's stamina depletes), whereas in a 50/50 you have to guess/make a read. Lastly, iff he combo breaks, he's out of stamina and he's a sitting duck for a good 5 seconds before his stamina regenerates.

 

[SylverRye]

Lets be realistic here.
He has no real 50/50 so the only option (vs a competent opponent) is to do go for jailing blockstrings and make him guess when/if you are going for the grab/stagger-f2/113skrc e.t.c.
His cancels having gaps would completeley break a-list because your opponent doesnt have to respect the pressure anymore.

Yeah man i do understand that. But every cancel character has been nerfed atleast once. A list flew under the radar due to nonody using him. At NEC when vendetta played madzin people kept yelling "he cant even play the game because hes always fucking jailed" lol. Im not bashing a list but at this point we should all expect nerfs to cancel characters. Minus dvorah since she has what?1 or 2 plus cancels?

 

[xXxNasHxXx]

I think Cage shouldn't be nerfed at all... Infact his other issues like whiffing normals should addressed...

 

[DrManhattan]

Lol A-List is pretty fucked. Slow start-ups are the only reason A-List isn't GOD. (and Johnny's universal issues).

However, he doesn't need nerfs, he can't block infinite people forever like Liu Kang/Tanya/etc. Its more just long periods of jail-time. Kind of like MK9 his counter part (f33exfb, f3, f3, etc) but wayyyy harder to execute.

And 11 frame mid that cannot be low profiled and is plus 30 on block is slow? GTFO.

Maybe this is why Kombat network streams are screwed up all the time. People like this run them.

 

[kelevra]

Yeah man i do understand that. But every cancel character has been nerfed atleast once. A list flew under the radar due to nonody using him. At NEC when vendetta played madzin people kept yelling "he cant even play the game because hes always fucking jailed" lol. Im not bashing a list but at this point we should all expect nerfs to cancel characters. Minus dvorah since she has what?1 or 2 plus cancels?

Is there some footage of that? Would love to see it.
On a side note: Grandmaster shits all over a-list

 

[Wigy]

And 11 frame mid that cannot be low profiled and is plus 30 on block is slow? GTFO.

Maybe this is why Kombat network streams are screwed up all the time. People like this run them.

+30 on block. Que.

D4 skc is +4 and d4 is -1 which jails into nothing.
D4 also gets shut down by many characters. Kotal and sub for example, the range isnt as good as everyone makes out.

Repeatidly d4ing isnt guna win him games lol.

Its a great move i know but chill.

 

[SylverRye]

Well hes also a rushdown character with terrible fucking jump-ins a 9 frame high and slow pokes, yes his d4 is amazing but it is slow nonetheless. He heavily relies on being able to jail properly.

His +frames don't lead to much but a little chip if you're blocking properly.

A list doesn't need to rely on chip imo. His pressure, staggers and mind games are what make him good. Also that f3 is very freaking good. I personally dont have problems with cage and like watching him, but id say just expect the worst but hope for the best. I remember reading somewhere that nrs will ne making a lot of changes

Is there some footage of that? Would love to see it.
On a side note: Grandmaster shits all over a-list

Yeah sub shits on every cage variation lol. And sadly vendetta vs madzin was off stream. A LOT of the NEC matches weren't on stream. Xinok vs reo wasnt on stream as well iirc. People get a lot of cage exposure this tourney. Footwurk, xinok and vendetta. Vendetta was very impressive with his cancels. Only cage ive seen consistently jail with b34

 

[Baconlord]

for the love of god nobody cares how hard it is. execution shouldn't be a factor when balancing

 

[Goat-City]

There has been a lot of rabble on here about how a-list will be the next to go with the nerf-hammer.

I really don't understand why he needs changed at all. Especially compared to other characters.

Would be interesting to hear people make a case for this either way.

A List is probably fine. What they need to do is nerf block pressure as a play style. Half the amount of meter a character gains for pressuring on block should also be gained by the character blocking. On top of this make block breakers 1 bar. Once that happens, all S and A+ tier pressure characters will be normalized at once except for Summoner. Then for him just make the bat a mid and give it increased damage scaling. After that the S tier will be gone completely.

 

[M.D.]

Yeah man i do understand that. But every cancel character has been nerfed atleast once. A list flew under the radar due to nonody using him. At NEC when vendetta played madzin people kept yelling "he cant even play the game because hes always fucking jailed" lol. Im not bashing a list but at this point we should all expect nerfs to cancel characters. Minus dvorah since she has what?1 or 2 plus cancels?

You mean this match where HE LOST?

So we should nerf the character because he loses? Ok sure.

 

[Wigy]

You mean this match where HE LOST?

So we should nerf the character because he loses? Ok sure.

Not to mention hes not guna get out even when not jailed cause blood god has NO ARMOUR.

couldn't have picked a worse example for jc being OP.

 

[M.D.]

It was the other way around man. Cage lost, so all arguments are invalid.

 

[I Am The LK]

FUCK NO. TIRED OF THE BITCH ASS PEOPLE THAT SAY HE DOES WHEN THEY PLAY CASSIE OR LIU OR QUAN.

 

[thlityoursloat]

Honestly, yeah, but only in exchange for universal buffs.

 

[Wigy]

If you're guna say yes, say why.

Unless your argument contains 'HIS MIXUPS ARE SO GOOD" then just dont.

 

[EndofGameBoss]

A List is definitely good. No one is going to deny that, but he is not broken like Kang. He should be left alone.