General/Other - Shinnok Shinnok General Discussion Thread

[legion666]

Also does he have time to do a guaranteed Stomp after Mimicry on Goro????)

 

[RM Jonnitti]

Great stuff! I am mostly interested in Impostor so this tech will be very important. So I was said that with Jax you can't Mimicry in a combo out of Ground Pound( which is understandable lol) but do you get it after doing Erons anti air sand bomb? I guess you have to go for big damage while your damage boost lasts for those characters Shinnok can't get a vortex on:/

you might be able to in the corner or if you use the run mechanic somehow. i haven't explored running with shinnok but i highly doubt it. i haven't gotten the chance to play people much but it seems like i save most of my stamina for backdashing and breakers. seems like shinnok is best played at half screen and he has some good pokes that can get people off of you and then backdash. necromancer is still my favorite, the zoning tools are awesome but imposter seems to be the best so far with this recent discovery. i haven't messed with bone shaper but honestly it seems to be kinda shitty so far. haven't seen anything really all that great yet and he loses his best string IMO in f22 and it gets replaces by something that pretty much the same thing but you have some pretty useless enders. its nice that he gets a low starter that goes into a string now but still kinda whack because he has no overheads standing, which makes me question how good it is to end combos with f22 1+3. i haven't really seen anything with the staff yet but since its slow as shit i doubt its going to be all that great

 

[RM Jonnitti]

Also does he have time to do a guaranteed Stomp after Mimicry on Goro????)

good thought, ill test that now!

edit: it seems so! free 13.3%

 

[legion666]

you might be able to in the corner or if you use the run mechanic somehow. i haven't explored running with shinnok but i highly doubt it. i haven't gotten the chance to play people much but it seems like i save most of my stamina for backdashing and breakers. seems like shinnok is best played at half screen and he has some good pokes that can get people off of you and then backdash. necromancer is still my favorite, the zoning tools are awesome but imposter seems to be the best so far with this recent discovery. i haven't messed with bone shaper but honestly it seems to be kinda shitty so far. haven't seen anything really all that great yet and he loses his best string IMO in f22 and it gets replaces by something that pretty much the same thing but you have some pretty useless enders. its nice that he gets a low starter that goes into a string now but still kinda whack because he has no overheads standing, which makes me question how good it is to end combos with f22 1+3. i haven't really seen anything with the staff yet but since its slow as shit i doubt its going to be all that great

But I mean does the game mechanic even allow you to still combo into Mimicry after either hitting with a sand bomb with Erron or maybe whiffing it:/?????? If it does I am sure we could come up with something....

 

[legion666]

good thought, ill test that now!

edit: it seems so! free 13.3%

Oh man, I wish I had the game now myself!!!! So with the stomp : can you direct it to land in front or behind the opponent? If you can would you be able to whiff it while Goro is in hit stun and then go into the vortex?????!!

 

[RM Jonnitti]

But I mean does the game mechanic even allow you to still combo into Mimicry after either hitting with a sand bomb with Erron or maybe whiffing it:/?????? If it does I am sure we could come up with something....

move has a lot of recovery, i highly doubt it

Oh man, I wish I had the game now myself!!!! So with the stomp : can you direct it to land in front or behind the opponent? If you can would you be able to whiff it while Goro is in hit stun and then go into the vortex?????!!

nah the stomp tracks. its always going to land right on top of him


on another note im just going to throw it out there that using this vortex is probably the most reliable way to land a hit with the damage buff activated, so the damage you get here is probably where almost 100% of your extra damage will go to.

also gonna start working on a punishment list for every character.

 

[stealthychainsawninja]

Technically, you can still get the stomp to whiff by doing it as soon as possible and letting his stumble animation "dodge" (I think this is what causes it to whiff anyway), but Goro still recovers a couple frames before you do, so it seems useless.

 

[legion666]

The stomp tracks for Goro as well but I think he can press back or forward( like mk9 Sheeva) to still direct it.

100% agree that in order to use the time with the damage boost it will be crucial to land a 50/50 or at least a 16% throw), with characters whose moves don't allow you to creat a vortex you will have to do as much damage as possible off of one 50/50 mix up you get and end it with the stolen move while it is still boosted!

 

[OG Mannimal]

Can someone explain his Inposter vortex to me? I must have missed it

 

[Eji1700]

Auuugh. I had this long post written down with testing and just lost it. Fuuuck.

Ok, so short version:

4~db2 - combos on hit, block string as long as you don't hit with the very tip. Starts high.
b3~db2- combos on hit, block string as long as you DO hit with the very tip(not nearly as strict as 4). Low
d4~db2- block string, but doesn't actually combo on hit (does that werid MK stagger state where they can't act but can block).

All 3 of these should give you 3 hellsparks on block to help build meter and give space, and are good ways to play out/test a mixup situation, and are totally generic to my knowledge.

Imposter stuff (I think, deals mostly with MB amulet):

This move might be better than I thought.

Mid screen on hit- gives you a teleport mixup. the nj2 will beat out tech rolls, and teleporting in front of them and blocking might beat some wakeups (confirmed works on kung jin flying kick, no idea what else). Teleporting behind might screw with wakeup inputs, i'm not sure.

Mid screen on block- MIGHT give b1 or 4 into cancels, but i can't tell, it was really inconsistent. You can however get bf3 or it's EX version guaranteed. It's unsafe so only use it to chip out or if you've got a REALLY hard read.

In corner on hit- gives at least 1,1~db1 for mimic steal and setups, should, or d4~db2

In corner on block- jailed d4~db2 with usual caveat (all will hit on block, they can eat the low and still block the sparks though), or again shoulder.

More testing later. I had more but lost it and can't remember what I did and didn't confirm. Need to really look at b2 and f3 more. Also some work on b1 and f22

Edit:

@OG Mannimal : Imposter vortex (unless i'm confused) is ending with the db1 special move in imposter, which puts the opponent in this stumble animation where they can block, but can't act. This gives you enough time for either a nj teleport or instant air teleport, which lets you force them to guess if you're going to do nj2 for the overhead or b3 for the low. If it hits you can combo, use their move against them (often extending the combo) and often end with another mimic steal.

Further Jax will get reset for free (you can ground pound him while he's stumbling and he can't stop it), but you can't end in mimic steal. It does however give you a free 30%+ reset, and for goro you get a free stomp on him.

 

[RM Jonnitti]

Can someone explain his Inposter vortex to me? I must have missed it

bruh this shits only 4 pages lol. but basically after you end a combo with mimicry your opponent is in a stun state where they can't do anything but block. you can neutral jump and teleport at around chest level and mix up teleport 2 and landing and doing b3. you can't backdash, armor through, reversal or jump out, you just have to hold that. against characters that can combo into mimicry when they have a stolen move (meaning that the move you steal is one that allows you to extend combos) then you get vortex against that character. a few posts up i explain it in more details but thats basically how it works.

 

[Ninequads93]

Corner Combo does 1% less if you choose to end in trance

 

[legion666]

Auuugh. I had this long post written down with testing and just lost it. Fuuuck.

Ok, so short version:

4~db2 - combos on hit, block string as long as you don't hit with the very tip. Starts high.
b3~db2- combos on hit, block string as long as you DO hit with the very tip(not nearly as strict as 4). Low
d4~db2- block string, but doesn't actually combo on hit (does that werid MK stagger state where they can't act but can block).

All 3 of these should give you 3 hellsparks on block to help build meter and give space, and are good ways to play out/test a mixup situation, and are totally generic to my knowledge.

Imposter stuff (I think, deals mostly with MB amulet):

This move might be better than I thought.

Mid screen on hit- gives you a teleport mixup. the nj2 will beat out tech rolls, and teleporting in front of them and blocking might beat some wakeups (confirmed works on kung jin flying kick, no idea what else). Teleporting behind might screw with wakeup inputs, i'm not sure.

Mid screen on block- MIGHT give b1 or 4 into cancels, but i can't tell, it was really inconsistent. You can however get bf3 or it's EX version guaranteed. It's unsafe so only use it to chip out or if you've got a REALLY hard read.

In corner on hit- gives at least 1,1~db1 for mimic steal and setups, should, or d4~db2

In corner on block- jailed d4~db2 with usual caveat (all will hit on block, they can eat the low and still block the sparks though), or again shoulder.

More testing later. I had more but lost it and can't remember what I did and didn't confirm. Need to really look at b2 and f3 more. Also some work on b1 and f22

Edit:

@OG Mannimal : Imposter vortex (unless i'm confused) is ending with the db1 special move in imposter, which puts the opponent in this stumble animation where they can block, but can't act. This gives you enough time for either a nj teleport or instant air teleport, which lets you force them to guess if you're going to do nj2 for the overhead or b3 for the low. If it hits you can combo, use their move against them (often extending the combo) and often end with another mimic steal.

Further Jax will get reset for free (you can ground pound him while he's stumbling and he can't stop it), but you can't end in mimic steal. It does however give you a free 30%+ reset, and for goro you get a free stomp on him.

Won't 2nd and 3rd hell sparks miss with d4xxdb2 in the corner and leave you open for a punish though!?

 

[Eji1700]

Won't 2nd and 3rd hell sparks miss with d4xxdb2 in the corner and leave you open for a punish though!?

On hit, yes, although I don't know if they can punish ( you get 2 sparks), and you can EX on reaction.

On block, surprisingly no. For some reason it pushes you out so that all 3 hit, which is a nice amount of meter and chip. d4 ALWAYS does this when canceled into db2, while the rest are mildly space dependent (you'll almost always be safe with 4, but b3 really needs to be spaced properly)

Edit:
@Ninequads93 Wow, nice, although i'm curious as to what the non mimic stored damage is. Either way that J3 into teleport nj2 looks like it's going to be important to get down for corner combos.

 

[Ninequads93]

So I've been doing this to get the vortex how do you guys feel about it?

 

[Eji1700]

Is the j2 into teleport mixup actually safe if they block it? Seems like they can just block standing and then do a reversal, which sorta negates the purpose of the mixup?

 

[Wowbiggulps]

Apparently Imposter also steals your opponents brutality.

 

[Ninequads93]

Is the j2 into teleport mixup actually safe if they block it? Seems like they can just block standing and then do a reversal, which sorta negates the purpose of the mixup?

Is the j2 into teleport mixup actually safe if they block it? Seems like they can just block standing and then do a reversal, which sorta negates the purpose of the mixup?

Lol duh omg your totaly right I stayed up so long can't even think straight , maybe so I'll lab it more tommorrow I know if you do it off quan trance it combos

 

[RM Jonnitti]

So I've been doing this to get the vortex how do you guys feel about it?

pretty similar to what @GGA Max posted earlier. i do the same shit only instead of doing 1 mimicry i do f2 mimicry at the end. pretty much the same shit

 

[legion666]

Apparently Imposter also steals your opponents brutality.

Yeah! Those that can fulfill the required conditions(some must or mustn't be Enhanced and you can't control that with stolen moves:/) there is a thread about it http://www.testyourmight.com/threads/shinnok-brutality-shenanigans.49984/

 

[Wowbiggulps]

Yeah! Those that can fulfill the required conditions(some must or mustn't be Enhanced and you can't control that with stolen moves:/) there is a thread about it http://www.testyourmight.com/threads/shinnok-brutality-shenanigans.49984/

Just saw the other thread, my bad! I hope someone pulls this off in tournament lol

 

[RM Jonnitti]

so for now it seems like im going to be using necromancer against the characters who you don't get the mimicry vortex on. space control tools in necromancer are too strong and i feel like they're really good with how most of the time you're ending your combos with hellsparks

 

[Malec]

anyone else thinks that Shinnok isnt that great? Feels like once people figure his stuff out, he cant do much at all. Dont see anything realy going for him, no real overhead/low mixups, no meterless damage AT ALL, no high pressure game, by far the least amount of strings, which arent that great to begin with... his zoning seems decent...
Am I missing something? Why cant he just simple have an instant overhead -.-

I realy hate to complain, because its only day 3. But I havent played any actual matches (so no salt involved so far ^^) and he was the #1 on my want to main list, but I dont want to main a low tier all over again (mk9 Sindel, NRS has no love for kickass story mode chars xD).

 

[RM Jonnitti]

anyone else thinks that Shinnok isnt that great? Feels like once people figure his stuff out, he cant do much at all. Dont see anything realy going for him, no real overhead/low mixups, no meterless damage AT ALL, no high pressure game, by far the least amount of strings, which arent that great to begin with... his zoning seems decent...
Am I missing something? Why cant he just simple have an instant overhead -.-

I realy hate to complain, because its only day 3. But I havent played any actual matches (so no salt involved so far ^^) and he was the #1 on my want to main list, but I dont want to main a low tier all over again (mk9 Sindel, NRS has no love for kickass story mode chars xD).

i havent really played against people but on paper hes really good. we did find a 50/50 in impostor thats a vortex against a handful of characters, so he does have 50/50s. also keep in mind when you steal a move you get a damage buff for a short period of time, so if you land the vortex you do get to use that buff. we've explained how the vortex works mad times in earlier posts in this thread so you can find it in there. i actually made a separate thread about my early impressions on shinnok, so you can see more about how i feel about this character and maybe you can see why i think hes actually a really good character. i can see why people think hes ass at first, no grounded overheads, not many moves and overall low damage, but i really think hes got good stuff.

 

[Malec]

i havent really played against people but on paper hes really good. we did find a 50/50 in impostor thats a vortex against a handful of characters, so he does have 50/50s. also keep in mind when you steal a move you get a damage buff for a short period of time, so if you land the vortex you do get to use that buff. we've explained how the vortex works mad times in earlier posts in this thread so you can find it in there. i actually made a separate thread about my early impressions on shinnok, so you can see more about how i feel about this character and maybe you can see why i think hes actually a really good character. i can see why people think hes ass at first, no grounded overheads, not many moves and overall low damage, but i really think hes got good stuff.

yeah I read everything here about Shinnok ofc ^^ but still, that vortex dosent feel to be enough and it is realy risky, at least the low variation and before that you have to somehow open your opponent up first and that will be realy hard without mixups.

what I am trying to say is, other chars have the same or even higher damage without an damage buff (imposter only), they have a vortex too, without beeing super risky, having easier time to open people up, mixups, pressure etc etc. Shinnok has nothing special, thats my point and he just feels weak