General/Other - Shinnok Shinnok General Discussion Thread

[legion666]

We should start a speculation of buffs the patch will give him. Pessimist will say: He will get none. In which case, I am leaving this character

I would like to see: 1) Damage buff on strings, 2) Faster ANIMATION on enhanced shoulder (start-up, gaps, and recovery reduced), and 3) Amulet strike causing stun animation like Erron Black's sand

Imposter: Fake teleport to land in ground in front of him (takes stamina)
Bone Shaper: faster recovery on his amulet projectile (since he doesn't have amulet strike)
Necromancer: Faster DF4

Again, if you're the pessimist, you'll expect nothing, and I will applaud your pessimism. That's a promise.

I like the idea of canceling the Impostor's teleport into a grounded version, that way he would have a true 50/50 off of it with air teleport into NJP and grounded into b3. If on top of that all three Hell Sparks would connect after b3 and become safe we'd be talking!!!

 

[Malec]

Boneshaper
You main move is b31 by itself with d2~ added for combo hits. This kind of range on a safe spamable string is good. The fact that you can hit confirm this into a combo is even better. I do feel boneshaper suffers more for not having a safe special notably since it does limit you to 1 really good string (plus a lot of single hit normals), but I feel that that string isn't being used for what it is.

I pointed out pages ago, that b3,1 and f3,1 string in bone shaper is good and has amazing range and it beeing good for footsies, but this ISNT enough. This isnt Tekken, where i can backdash to death and outplay my opponent with movement and whiffpunishing and shit. no I have to face projectiles and teleports in this game, and once my opponent is in, I am fucked.

 

[regulas]

I pointed out pages ago, that b3,1 and f3,1 string in bone shaper is good and has amazing range and it beeing good for footsies, but this ISNT enough. This isnt Tekken, where i can backdash to death and outplay my opponent with movement and whiffpunishing and shit. no I have to face projectiles and teleports in this game, and once my opponent is in, I am fucked.

B3~flick. or B3 string. Like 6 frames... they arn't going to be outpressuring that in speed.

 

[Malec]

B3~flick.

I dont get it

 

[regulas]

I dont get it

I edited it to add more, anyway you sya you have no close options but with a 6 frame move that can clear the room it's actually not hard at all to break distance.

 

[Malec]

I edited it to add more, anyway you sya you have no close options but with a 6 frame move that can clear the room it's actually not hard at all to break distance.

it is 7 frames btw and most d1 are 6 frames, so like everybody can match that. like I said, this string is good for sure but its not enough.

 

[Malec]

We should start a speculation of buffs the patch will give him. Pessimist will say: He will get none. In which case, I am leaving this character

I would like to see: 1) Damage buff on strings, 2) Faster ANIMATION on enhanced shoulder (start-up, gaps, and recovery reduced), and 3) Amulet strike causing stun animation like Erron Black's sand

Imposter: Fake teleport to land in ground in front of him (takes stamina)
Bone Shaper: faster recovery on his amulet projectile (since he doesn't have amulet strike)
Necromancer: Faster DF4

Again, if you're the pessimist, you'll expect nothing, and I will applaud your pessimism. That's a promise.

I would like to see
-first of all fix the issues with his specials, shoulder whiffing, bone shaper projectile beeing -12 on hit real?! and flick tracking, anything else? (sry I play Bone Shaper only and I have no idea about the other variations)
-hell sparks safe on block, if all 3 sparks are blocked
-improved range and frames on startup and block on his strings.
-Bone Shaper low scoop (df2) and his hand move in necromancer could launch WITHOUT meter maybe? its not like they are not super unsafe anyway and he wouldnt be the first character in this game that has launching specials without meter
-improved damage on his strings, to get comparable combo damage with the rest of the cast
-imposter mimicry should combo like quan chis trance
-remove the mimicry damage buff to compensate for the buffs, so you dont see 70-80% damage combos.

 

[regulas]

I would like to see
-first of all fix the issues with his specials, shoulder and flick, anything else? (sry I play Bone Shaper only and I have no idea about the other variations)
-hell sparks safe on block, if all 3 sparks are blocked
-improved range and frames on startup and block on his strings.
-Bone Shaper low scoop (df2) and his hand move in necromancer could launch WITHOUT meter maybe? its not like they are not super unsafe anyway and he wouldnt be the first character in this game that has launching specials without meter
-improved damage on his strings, to get comparable combo damage with the rest of the cast
-imposter mimicry should combo like quan chis trance
-remove the mimicry damage buff to compensate for the buffs, so you dont see 70-80% damage combos.

For b3 I just meant that it's a good way to get out of pressure.

The main bug fixes I see are making sure hits don't randomly miss. Increasing the tracking window on his Necro moves (which I also see more as a bugfix). And most importantly any other special minimum safe on block. I think hellsparks at like -10 would be sufficient to at least not be punished for it, though the fact that hell can be hitconfirmed into ex combo might actually make this too strong so shoulder charge might make more sense to be less risky buff. I think df4 is useless move so could maybe be changed.

Really just making any special safe on block would fix so much as it would make all his strings usable for boneshaper/imp and change a lot. I do think given his mechanics they have to be careful about buffs because his abilities he could really get out of hand easily.

 

[Malec]

I do think given his mechanics they have to be careful about buffs because his abilities he could really get out of hand easily.

yeah I agree with that. NRS should be carefull to not overbuff him. But we are just throwing suggestions out, so NRS (if they are reading ^^) have at least an idea what is wrong with Shinnok. If we are just quite and say "hey Shinnok is fine as he is, he needs just some minor tweaks, NRS will fix him". nothing will happen. obiously they thought he is fine in the first place.

 

[legion666]

yeah I agree with that. NRS should be carefull to not overbuff him. But we are just throwing suggestions out, so NRS (if they are reading ^^) have at least an idea what is wrong with Shinnok. If we are just quite and say "hey Shinnok is fine as he is, he needs just some minor tweaks, NRS will fix him". nothing will happen. obiously they thought he is fine in the first place.

Maybe we need a separate thread for these suggestions for them to notice ! I see a lot of such threads appearing in Kitana, Kenshi and other forums)))

 

[D_Matt_Ma]

There is nothing overpowered if they increase damage on his strings. So what if he deals 2-4% more...

 

[RM_NINfan101]

I do expect him to get some buffs and a ton of bug fixes but it just strikes me equally that people are playing him wrong to boot. The whole point of footsies is to be hitting based on reach which is more about timing then variation.

Necro
Now anyway I get that there are tons of miss bugs especially on some characters, but as far as I can see a lot of things like F22 flick or 4~flick, or f3 flick, or b1 flick (around half the normals really). Are all safe cancels into flick that can't be poked or jumped, with enough pushblock distance to leave you in a good position.

Boneshaper
You main move is b31 by itself with d2~ added for combo hits. This kind of range on a safe spamable string is good. The fact that you can hit confirm this into a combo is even better. I do feel boneshaper suffers more for not having a safe special notably since it does limit you to 1 really good string (plus a lot of single hit normals), but I feel that that string isn't being used for what it is.

Is uppercut Shinnok's only viable anti-air for close range jump-ins?

@regulas I definitely agree with what you are trying to say here, and this is exactly how I play Shinnok (in Necromancer or Bone Shaper) but in a game where everyone does so much more damage to you and has the ability to lock you down once they see past your gimmicks, @Malec is right. It's not enough. I don't know what to particularly suggest other than an increase in damage slightly and safer strings if possible, but certain variations may need a little more.

@omegapr1me99 Yes, it is his only option aside from Impostor air teleport into njk/njp.

 

[regulas]

@regulas I definitely agree with what you are trying to say here, and this is exactly how I play Shinnok (in Necromancer or Bone Shaper) but in a game where everyone does so much more damage to you and has the ability to lock you down once they see past your gimmicks, @Malec is right. It's not enough. I don't know what to particularly suggest other than an increase in damage slightly and safer strings if possible, but certain variations may need a little more.

@omegapr1me99 Yes, it is his only option aside from Impostor air teleport into njk/njp.

But there not really gimics though, like flick by itself feels like it is a gimmick because of how dodge able it is... until you start varying the timing and you can find ways to get it to land even against someone very experienced at dodging it. The point of footsies is that you vary your timings and range not your attacks (as much).

 

[RM_NINfan101]

But there not really gimics though, like flick by itself feels like it is a gimmick because of how dodge able it is... until you start varying the timing and you can find ways to get it to land even against someone very experienced at dodging it. The point of footsies is that you vary your timings and range not your attacks (as much).

I know, and I do this in my playstyle to throw my opponents off. I will have to play it at casuals Monday and tell you my results.

 

[Wemfs]

One buff I'd like to see is being able to mb any hell spark on block (the first, second, or third) to get the +21 block advantage like it shows in the game.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

One buff I'd like to see is being able to mb any hell spark on block (the first, second, or third) to get the +21 block advantage like it shows in the game.

I can't see this unless they somehow make the sparks safer as there would end up being a massive gap before the fourth "Spark."

 

[RM_NINfan101]

One buff I'd like to see is being able to mb any hell spark on block (the first, second, or third) to get the +21 block advantage like it shows in the game.

I can't help but feel that's either a bug, or something that's not supposed to be there...

 

[xInfra Deadx]

I can't help but feel that's either a bug, or something that's not supposed to be there...

Yeah I feel the same way. That looks like a mistake.

 

[RM_NINfan101]

Yeah I feel the same way. That looks like a mistake.

I will say though, if that is actually supposed to happen, it could be like Batman's EX Batarang, which was a phenomenal pressure tool and I think Shinnok could use that throughout all variations.

 

[RM_NINfan101]

So playing Necromancer against my brother who plays Kung Jin and Raiden at a really decent level (I.E: He knows what he's doing)

I never realized just how godlike B3 xx Flick really is. Not only that, but b3 xx EX Flick when an opponent has no meter is just soooo good. a low confirmed into a hard knockdown? 4 xx Flick is also a really large spacing tool and on block, this move is even better.

Perhaps, and this is just my belief: He's not meant to do a lot of damage, he's meant to control as much as the screen as possible, and do so little damage that the opponent's breakers do not do much and their meter gain isn't high, and that if they really want out of your Flick pressure? Better burn dem bars. This is actually kinda nice, because this means you do not have to really worry about the opponent just getting large, meterburned confirms.

I really think Flick just might make Shinnok's Necromancer variation currently the best, but that is nothing more than a personal opinion. It just... "works".

 

[Malec]

is anyone able to do 2 ex low scoops in bone shaper variation in one combo? I cant get it, game seems not to allow 2. wtf really lol. This character is so broken, I dont get it.

 

[stealthychainsawninja]

is anyone able to do 2 ex low scoops in bone shaper variation in one combo? I cant get it, game seems not to allow 2. wtf really lol. This character is so broken, I dont get it.

You can't. It's common in NRS games for launcher/capture moves to only work once per combo.

 

[Malec]

You can't. It's common in NRS games for launcher/capture moves to only work once per combo.

haha you'r kidding right? I can show you alot of combo videos here in this forum of all the other characters in this game, that show something else.
Some of the moves might not relaunch, but alot do and I have never seen, that you'r ex move just dosent come out, so that you cant relaunch.

 

[stealthychainsawninja]

haha you'r kidding right? I can show you alot of combo videos here in this forum of all the other characters in this game, that show something else.
Some of the moves might not relaunch, but alot do and I have never seen, that you'r ex move just dosent come out, so that you cant relaunch.

Common, not universal. It happened A LOT more in Injustice, but there are a good number in MKX as well: Shinnok EX low scoop, Kotal EX air grab, Ermac EX Lift, Quan Chi EX Trance, Raiden EX uppercut, Raiden EX vicinity blast, Raiden EX shocker, Scorpion EX teleport, Scorpion EX minion grab, etc.

 

[Malec]

Common, not universal. It happened A LOT more in Injustice, but there are a good number in MKX as well: Shinnok EX low scoop, Kotal EX air grab, Ermac EX Lift, Quan Chi EX Trance, Raiden EX uppercut, Raiden EX vicinity blast, Raiden EX shocker, Scorpion EX teleport, Scorpion EX minion grab, etc.

ok, sry I am just getting more and more frustrated with this char -.-