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Strategy "Shazam!" -- Captain Marvel General Discussion Thread

ending in ac leads to the same damage as ending with hm

you get the meaty grab oki, which you don't get with hm ender

it also looks way cooler, he powerbombs the fuck out of your shit

there's like no sensible reason to not end in ac
 

pogse

Ruthlesss Mayhem
end in HM in the corner only if you want to bait a wakeup.

go with b3 j2 j2 2 AC [wonderchef]. its still good damage if your still having trouble with the b3 j3 f223 AC.
 

EGP Wonder_Chef

Official Quan Chi Nerf Demander™
Will it stuff some wake ups attacks? (I don't have a full understanding of what meaty means...)
via my guide:

Meaty Herculean Might On Wakeup

This is Shazam's main and most powerful mixup. The core of his knockdown game is based around this.

Normally HM will whiff when the opponent is crouching, however the moment an opponent is getting up from a hard knockdown, they are considered standing for just a split second before they can crouch again. This means that if you time a HM to hit an opponent the moment they get up, it can't be ducked, jumped, backdashed, or armored through. The ONLY way to escape this command grab is for an opponent to do an invincible wakeup attack. This lets you mix your opponent up in a 50/50:

If they don't wake up and you HM, you get 40% that leads back into the same mixup.

If they do wake up and you bait it, you get anywhere from 35%-52% that leads back into the same mixup.

Considering almost every wakeup attack in the game will get the opponent less damage than that, the risk/reward is almost always in your favor.


The catch is that not every knockdown gets you this setup. There are 3 practical ways and 2 situational ways to set this up:

  • Achilles Clutch: This is the highest damaging combo ender anyway, so end ALL of your combos in this.
  • Sweep: Does less damage than AC as a combo ender, but you will get this mixup off of a raw sweep.
  • MB Atlas Torpedo: This gives you a long enough knockdown to dash up, wait slightly, then hit a meaty HM.
  • B3 > F3: You can do this to keep a combo unclashable and still have time to get the mixup, however the timing is much harder.
  • SOME Interactables: Some interactables have a long hard knockdown timing, however each has a different timing, making setting up the mixup off of them very difficult.
Baiting wakeups will be different for each character. The main ways to bait wakeups are:

  • MB F3: Great at baiting single hit wakeups such as Black Adam's Lightning Cage or Lightning Hands.
  • Advancing Mercury Storm: Teleporting through the opponent will often make a wakeup attack whiff, allowing you to whiff punish for massive damage. Good for multi hitting long wakeups like Nightwing Staff Spin.
  • Crossup Jumping Attack: Good for Wakeups such as Aquamans that only hit below and in front of him. Can lead to over 50% easily.
  • Jump Back 2: Catches forward moving wakeups and teleports behind you such as Killer Frost's Slide or Ares' Forward Teleport.
  • Just Block!: Never underestimate the power of just blocking! Works great on unsafe wakeups such as Doomsday's Upwards Venom.
Often times just one option will beat all of a character's wakeup options, for example MB F3 beats everything Joker has, Advancing Mercury Storm beats everything Deathstroke has, and just blocking beats everything that Wonder Woman has. Learn which anti-wakeups are good for each character!
 

SZSR

Champion
This tech? I thought this was patched out, sick, I stopped doing this a long time ago. Thanks for the breakdown Chef
 

shinobispectre

Heart of A Champion, Skill of a Noob :P
Does AC, dash forward reverse controls in the corner? It looks like it does but I'm not sure if it works against real opponents.
I don't think it does? Reversal of wakeups means the character model has crossed over to the otherside for a short amount of time before the wakeup comes out right? Shazam forward dash is good, but I'm not sure it covers the distance after an AC. The timing also seems really strict as well since recovery after AC is still long imo, sweep seems to give the best timing window.

Also how do I get the 2 after j3 in the f12/22 combos? Is it based on how low I hit the b3? I cannot seem to get it down consistently.
 
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Error

DF2+R2
I don't think it does? Reversal of wakeups means the character model has crossed over to the otherside for a short amount of time before the wakeup comes out right? Shazam forward dash is good, but I'm not sure it covers the distance after an AC. The timing also seems really strict as well since recovery after AC is still long imo, sweep seems to give the best timing window.

Also how do I get the 2 after j3 in the f12/22 combos? Is it based on how low I hit the b3? I cannot seem to get it down consistently.
Strange the other day when I was doing it in training the dummy was waking up facing the wrong way, but I can't replicate it anymore.
 

Indecisive

We'll burn you all—that is your fate!
I don't think it does? Reversal of wakeups means the character model has crossed over to the otherside for a short amount of time before the wakeup comes out right? Shazam forward dash is good, but I'm not sure it covers the distance after an AC. The timing also seems really strict as well since recovery after AC is still long imo, sweep seems to give the best timing window.

Also how do I get the 2 after j3 in the f12/22 combos? Is it based on how low I hit the b3? I cannot seem to get it down consistently.
I just do it it. B3 J2 F223 HM. I think J2 J2 Works.

Strange the other day when I was doing it in training the dummy was waking up facing the wrong way, but I can't replicate it anymore.
interesting.
 

shinobispectre

Heart of A Champion, Skill of a Noob :P
Strange the other day when I was doing it in training the dummy was waking up facing the wrong way, but I can't replicate it anymore.
Hmmm same stage and character? Again maybe really strict timing.

I just do it it. B3 J2 F223 HM. I think J2 J2 Works.
Okay I'll just keep practicing/experimenting more.

I'm guessing people know this but f223 after AC mb bumps up the damage close to regular BnB levels. I sometimes get it and it seems close to regular BnB damage with Shazam. It just seems really annoying to do haha.
 

shinobispectre

Heart of A Champion, Skill of a Noob :P
Does HM catch backdashes? Or are connections just laggy and messing up the other player? I am pretty confident crappy backdashes like Black Adam are caught in certain situations and especially so in the corner, but of course these are very situational.
 

SZSR

Champion
Does HM catch backdashes? Or are connections just laggy and messing up the other player? I am pretty confident crappy backdashes like Black Adam are caught in certain situations and especially so in the corner, but of course these are very situational.
No it does, I try to catch backdashes on WU with HM and it catches them.


Also, Shazams

How do we beat Batman....
 

Indecisive

We'll burn you all—that is your fate!
-_- Thanks guys
It depends on the batman. On what they do and how they play. ive played against Blake, Arma, King, Fran, Rapzilla. They each play batman Very different. If they rush in at you then you need to learn how to block. If they zone with Trait and Bats trade bolts for bats. If they go in learn the gaps in the strings so you can D1. The biggest thing in the MU is they have shit WU's and they have trouble getting you since you have WU teleport. Im learning a new way to play Shazam. And im not willing to tell people what to do. It is actually very good for this MU in some situations. Ill tell people more if i feel like it. Also if they are zoning and they do not have trade teleport through the batarangs and punish
 

shinobispectre

Heart of A Champion, Skill of a Noob :P
-_- Thanks guys
Haha I'm with you, Batman seems to be the... Bane of my existence :D. But for real his grappling hook is annoying, recovery seems nonexistent to him. I thank the online matchmaking most batmen i face just use trait for combos. That said I still need to learn gaps in strings.
 

DOWNLOADED

The Cowardly Lion
I'm not sure if this was posted already but I feel like attempting to contribute :p After you hit an opponent with AT, you can dash once and land HM. However, this (obviously) doesn't work when the opponent tech rolls or uses a wakeup attack.
 

shinobispectre

Heart of A Champion, Skill of a Noob :P
I'm not sure if this was posted already but I feel like attempting to contribute :p After you hit an opponent with AT, you can dash once and land HM. However, this (obviously) doesn't work when the opponent tech rolls or uses a wakeup attack.
Haha yeah. If you want them to not techroll just meter burn the AT, I love how he slams down characters with ONE HAND! Beefcakes like Saltshaker Doomsday? Roid Rage Bane? NO PROBLEM! Just boom! One hand slam leading to mixups. Of course there is still the threat of wakeup attacks but outside of teleports, most wakeups are one directional and easy to bait.
 

DOWNLOADED

The Cowardly Lion
Haha yeah. If you want them to not techroll just meter burn the AT, I love how he slams down characters with ONE HAND! Beefcakes like Saltshaker Doomsday? Roid Rage Bane? NO PROBLEM! Just boom! One hand slam leading to mixups. Of course there is still the threat of wakeup attacks but outside of teleports, most wakeups are one directional and easy to bait.
It IS fucking awesome that he can toss the bigger characters around after spinning in a circle with one fucking hand.
 

Error

DF2+R2
So something I've messed around with but don't know how effective it is. After long combos that weren't launched off of HM MB, ie (F223 background bounce, B3 J3 HM MB F3) You get a splat knockdown with the opponent directly under you, I figure there may be some ways to create cross-ups off of this knockdown.
Do you have to time the f3? I remember getting a similar result where the opponent slides right under you but the combos I messed around with it had weird windows where it would work or it would knock the opponent away.
Looking back, I never replied, there is a timing for it, but once you get it it's pretty easy. Try doing F3 jump 3, 3xxHMmb F3, if timed right the opponent will end up right under you. Only thing I've been able to do is neutral jump 1/2 will always cross up (NJ3 will too but the timing is different) and empty jumps don't cross up.
 

mfkaoz

Banned
What combo does everyone recommend after landing a d2? I usually go for d2 j2 112 AT mb but I've been messing around in the lab and I found that d2 j2 11 HM MB b3 j2 2 AC works pretty well. 31% damage and a hard knockdown.