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SFV Beta Discussion

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Braindead

I want Kronika to step on my face
Can someone hook me up with basic Ryu stuff? Like some BnB's to punish things and basic gameplan and so on?

This is my first time playing SF I'm a complete neewwb.
 

d3v

SRK
Actualy, fuck everything I said about Ryu. The buffs he got to this build make him top tier now.
 

14K

Warrior
hmmm for those interested in knowing ( That Currently dont have access to the beta ) Ryu is not that bad if you enjoy spacing/footsies and poking into fireball you will feel right at home, his just not the most interesting character to play because he is the purest/closest thing to an original shoto since the very early days of SF...

Cammy: i heard a lot about her extensive nerfs on a previous build and that she was a shell of her former phase1 self, but honestly she is just fine, most of the stuff i heard was either rectified or changed back, the only real blunt nerf i see its in her anti air (b2), it will be a miracle if you can anti air anyone with that move on reaction, but that honestly is not that big of a deal, someone with decent enouth reactions will just DP.

Cant really speak for any other characters other than Karin and Vega (my main) who i devoted pretty much all my time in phase2, so untill he is put in the beta maybe after one of the schedule maintenence (hoping) there isnt much i can tell about other characters since i dont play them...

Laura tho looks and, from fighting quite a couple of them, feels super boring to play. hope im wrong tho...
 

14K

Warrior
Can someone hook me up with basic Ryu stuff? Like some BnB's to punish things and basic gameplan and so on?

This is my first time playing SF I'm a complete neewwb.
Sorry for the double post, Ryu is pretty straightforward, your a good player, you wont have much trouble figuring him out to be honest, even if your a newbie to the series... In what ever case im sure Liang will post some of his phase 3 stuff soon...
 

Braindead

I want Kronika to step on my face
Sorry for the double post, Ryu is pretty straightforward, your a good player, you wont have much trouble figuring him out to be honest, even if your a newbie to the series... In what ever case im sure Liang will post some of his phase 3 stuff soon...
I enjoy the lame game and the footsies, so it sounds like Ryu will fit me quite well. Also are hadouken and shoryuken usually safe or punishable?
 

Poto2222

"Online is your forte!" - A Wise Man, 2015.
Wait, what Ryu buffs? :confused:
Didn't find anything unusual while I was playing.

Does H.Shoryuken have upper-body-invincibility on startup now? It surely felt like it does, but I'm not sure.
 
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Rickyraws

This mean you don't like me?
Ricky pls I know nothing about SF and apparently the game doesn't have frame data lists. Why the fuck doesn't it have frame data lists? It's 2015 ffs.
Welcome to a real fighting game.

Shoryukens are the text book definition of punishable, more so in this game.

Hydokens aren't safe unless you space them correctly. Keep in mind unsafe doesn't always mean full combo punishable. Light inputs are typically safer than heavy/medium inputs.

2015 or not, frame data hasn't typically been listed in-game in any Street Fighter. Mainly because the frame data isn't so cut and dry. Space, counter hit, crumple, air resets all have to be taken into consideration. Don't blame the game, blame being spoiled. Set the dummy to block and then jump. Figure it out from there.


The game is still fairly simple, but it isn't your name sake. There will be comprehensive move property lists made when the game comes out. The properties of certain moves and subsequently their ability to actually link/combo have changed from beta phase to beta phase, so it may be better you only get a feeler ther than memorize data that is likely to change again.
 
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StormGoddess

Your mind tricks won't harm me!!!
Are you serious here? That line just caught my eye and I'm scratching my head like, whaaat..
EntropicByDesign said:
And traditional martial arts are a laughable joke in a real fight,
i think what they mean is
"traditional martial arts are a laughable joke in a real fight vs a MMA fighter" traditional martial arts vs a normal joe will still be effective IMO.
 

Braindead

I want Kronika to step on my face
Welcome to a real fighting game.

Shoryukens are the text book definition of punishable, more so in this game.

Hydokens aren't safe unless you space them correctly. Keep in mind unsafe doesn't always mean full combo punishable. Light inputs are typically safer than heavy/medium inputs.

2015 or not, frame data hasn't typically been listed in-game in any Street Fighter. Mainly because the frame data isn't so cut and dry. Space, counter hit, crumple, air resets all have to be taken into consideration. Don't blame the game, blame being spoiled. Set the dummy to block and then jump. Figure it out from there.


The game is still fairly simple, but it isn't your name sake. There will be comprehensive move property lists made when the game comes out. The properties of certain moved and subsequently their ability to actually link/combo have changed from beta phase to beta phase, so it may be better you only get a feelers ther than memorize data that is likely to change again.
Alright thanks for the info.

Doesn't every other game out there has frame data and most of them show the hitboxes of the moves in training mode? I think it's kindda dumb if SF doesn't put the frame data in the game. I understood not having it in USFIV since the game was pretty old. But I don't see any reason why they shouldn't add them in SFV.
 

14K

Warrior
Ricky pls I know nothing about SF and apparently the game doesn't have frame data lists. Why the fuck doesn't it have frame data lists? It's 2015 ffs.
Well Degrees of shoryuken vary in utility, i think at some point Mp.srk was pretty much the best due to its i.Frame properties, if that didnt change Mp. srk should be your go to for and guesses/reads.. the Others ,Lp. srk and Hp.srk, are for anti air and combo finishers respectivly,

As for play style and hadoukens, doing low foward (cr.Mk) into fireball is pretty much your tool to feel out the opponent, its safe if spaced near the tip of the hitbox and spaces well enouth , just note that the hit/hurtbox on low foward can take sometime to figure out since the hitbox doesnt go quite as far as the visual queue sugests... so it will seem like you should have hit your opponent visually but nothing really happens, and thats the main concern of most Ryu players, since low foward used to be shotos go to move because it goes/went so far in the past, Ryus low foward box seems alot more pulled back than usual, for him, so just something to keep in mind.
Other than that, Ryu is pretty self explanatory, you want to footsie your opponent closer to the corner as possivel, at which point the game is yours to take. Some ppl like to crossover against a cornered opponent, i think thats stupid to be honest, just like in MK there is no reason to put yourself into the corner just to try a lousy crossup, you had all the work puttin your opponent in the corner so just keep him there, if he tries to jump you anti air him, if he stays in the defensive just keep pressure on him...
 

Rickyraws

This mean you don't like me?
Alright thanks for the info.

Doesn't every other game out there has frame data and most of them show the hitboxes of the moves in training mode? I think it's kindda dumb if SF doesn't put the frame data in the game. I understood not having it in USFIV since the game was pretty old. But I don't see any reason why they shouldn't add them in SFV.
If you don't mind, can you tell me off the top of your head the last 3 non NRS made games to list specific frame data in game?
 

Braindead

I want Kronika to step on my face
I play Rising Thunder too, and although it doesn't have frame data, I think that's just because the game is still in Alpha.
 

Braindead

I want Kronika to step on my face
Well Degrees of shoryuken vary in utility, i think at some point Mp.srk was pretty much the best due to its i.Frame properties, if that didnt change Mp. srk should be your go to for and guesses/reads.. the Others ,Lp. srk and Hp.srk, are for anti air and combo finishers respectivly,

As for play style and hadoukens, doing low foward (cr.Mk) into fireball is pretty much your tool to feel out the opponent, its safe if spaced near the tip of the hitbox and spaces well enouth , just note that the hit/hurtbox on low foward can take sometime to figure out since the hitbox doesnt go quite as far as the visual queue sugests... so it will seem like you should have hit your opponent visually but nothing really happens, and thats the main concern of most Ryu players, since low foward used to be shotos go to move because it goes/went so far in the past, Ryus low foward box seems alot more pulled back than usual, for him, so just something to keep in mind.
Other than that, Ryu is pretty self explanatory, you want to footsie your opponent closer to the corner as possivel, at which point the game is yours to take. Some ppl like to crossover against a cornered opponent, i think thats stupid to be honest, just like in MK there is no reason to put yourself into the corner just to try a lousy crossup, you had all the work puttin your opponent in the corner so just keep him there, if he tries to jump you anti air him, if he stays in the defensive just keep pressure on him...
Cool thanks man. I'll test all this when the beta opens again tomorrow.
 
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EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
Are you serious here? That line just caught my eye and I'm scratching my head like, whaaat..
I said I was stepping out of the 'real fight' arguments because they are kinda silly when we're doing it online.

I'll say this:

If you train to fight, in any art, there is overlap. No matter what you train, certain things will always get better. Reflex, strength, pain threshold, and being in a state of heightened adrenaline more often (ears pounding, heart racing, feels like your lifting off the ground) teaches you how to handle and utilize that state. Learning to throw a proper punch (arts all go about it differently, but the end result is the same, you hit harder and faster than someone thats untrained). You may be equipped with knowledge of grappling so if they grab you, you dont panic and flop around like an idiot, etc.

Traditional Martial Arts will teach you those things. So will Boxing (Thai or American). So will grappling arts, etc. And yes, American Boxing, if trained for self defense will have some work with grappling, or should. Even if not there are little things you learn for clinch situations that work effectively for BASIC 'guy grabs you' situations. Though, really, the most important thing to know is that the head controls the body. Muay Thai clinch work is AMAZING for this.

So. My statement that traditionals are a laughable joke in a real fight was more vague than it should have been. I will clarify.

You, as a traditional martial artist will have advantages due to your training over people who have not trained. But if you try to use the ART in the fight, you will get rolled over. A street fight is chaos. There are no stances. If you try anything beyond low kicks the other guy is likely going to just tackle your ass. if you use the PRINCIPLES of traditional arts, its fine. If you use the *ART* side of the equation, you are not fine. I have seen it from both angles personally. Rely on the physical advantages and bio-mechanical knowledge you have gained through training and you will be fine. Try to rely on complicated stances and techniques and unless you vastly outskill your opponent, you can be run over and overwhelmed by a guy throwing straight rights that knows how to punch.

That is, in a nut shell what I meant. I'm not going to rehash my opinions on what art/style/whatever is 'best' because we can all argue that until we piss ourselves and it will resolve nothing.

Finally, to clarify for the last time: If you fight with the 'Art' in Traditionals, or try to do fancy kung-fu movie none-sense you will get shit on.
 

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
MMA is practically wrestling. I urge those who only fight under MMA law to NOT try to fight vs traditional Muay Thai for example because they'll get rekted if they try to grab a thai boxer like that. Then again many MMA fighters come from TRADITIONAL Muay Thai, Jiu Jitsu or other similarly respectable backgrounds so I'm not quite sure where this misconception comes from.

MMA is an umbrella term and it very often encompasses traditional arts - in fact I know a few who intentionally seek out traditional styles' masters to cover one chink or another in their armour.
MMA in itself a strict ruleset of what's allowed in ring. Taking a bajiquan quen master's footing? Get outta here. They'll knee you in the face if you try.

Exactly. A varied approach is more effective than a traditional approach. Understanding a fight is better than forms and stances and complicated chi-flowyness.

I dont argue that traditional arts are no part of MMA, and part of a balanced diet of ass kickery. But I maintain that standing on a traditional art by itself (the showy stuff) is NOT going to work, unless its a kung-fu movie, then you're fine. A traditional art, when boiled down, teaches fundamentals and that's what wins. There are exceptions EVERYWHERE. You will always run in to exceptionally skilled individuals that make their way work, or fight so counter-intuitively that it SHOULDNT work, but they make it.. Look at old Roy Jones Jr stuff. he did everything a boxer SHOULD NOT DO, and will forever be one of the greatest boxers of all time.

I have tremendous respect for all forms of fighting. I don't want my opinions to make it look otherwise, but over a lifetime of fighting and training and competing, I have seen a lot lot lot of people get mauled and severely disillusioned because they came in believing I, or someone else, was going to let them get away with this stuff they had practices every day since they were 5.. When the fact is, they drop in to a stance and try to parry my punches with other punches and silliness like that, just got them knocked out or submitted in the first 30 seconds. That's not to say that I haven't had my ass handed to me by a traditional practitioner, I 100% have. One of them was 70lbs smaller than me too.. BUt these guys outskilled me as fighters, not as practitioners, if that makes sense. They also applied a varied approach, just with an emphasis.

Traditionals have some AMAZING stuff that is absolutely the foundation for fighting as we know it today and will ALWAYS be a part of it. No amount of growth or evolution will take away the foundation they have built. But some of the stuff they teach is NOT practical in a REAL fight.

I am also guilty in this of using my terminology poorly. I should have explained what I meant when i said Traditional Arts, because I used the term incorrectly. I was referring to Tai Chi, the 900000 kinds of Kung-Fu, Many kinds of Karate, etc. I wasn't including Jujitsu, Pancration (Dunno how to spell it, too lazy to look it up), Thai Boxing, etc. Though my lazy use of terminology doesn't explain that.
 
Then perhaps my mic wasn't plugged in earlier, and you must not have heard me. I apologize, let me repeat myself a little louder:


Welcome, Braindead. Welcome...to a real fighting game.
What do you mean a "real' fighting game. Thats an opinion if you don't think MKX is a real fighting game, but unfortunately for you it is. So deal with it.
 
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