SFV Beta Discussion

[mercureXI]

check out this guys twitch archive
uploaded 1+ hour of SGB 2015 International SFV Exhibition Tournament 2 hours ago

http://www.twitch.tv/unequalledmedia

Is that just me or do these guys feel like very bad at SFV ?

I only played on beta tests and a few hours on "offline PC version", and damn, I feel like I play a LOT better than these guys.

That R.Mika felt very basic, and overall, didn't see great combos nor anything crazy.

Most of my FGC mates play Vega or Necalli a lot better than this ...


I guess people on stream are too busy focusing on USFIV at the moment ... let's hope they setup in February though ...

 

[THTB]

Is that just me or do these guys feel like very bad at SFV ?

I only played on beta tests and a few hours on "offline PC version", and damn, I feel like I play a LOT better than these guys.

That R.Mika felt very basic, and overall, didn't see great combos nor anything crazy.

Most of my FGC mates play Vega or Necalli a lot better than this ...


I guess people on stream are too busy focusing on USFIV at the moment ... let's hope they setup in February though ...

Probably just you.

I'm still watching the archive, but from what I'm seeing, they're pretty good. The game doesn't really play in a way that comes off as flashy in all honesty.

EDIT: The Cuongster vs Mitsu match is so far the best demonstration of how the game is.

EDIT 2: Cuongster vs TKR is good, too.

 

[mercureXI]

Watched Cuongster VS TKR, didn't see anything great.
More chances being you not having played SFV that much I'd say

TKR as Necalli uses raw V-Skill at mid range, which is VERY punishable and has no real use unless your opponent is goofy. If he wanted to build his V-Skill, he could go for his target into V-Skill or try and land a Crush Counter. He has a nice special throw setup though, but nothing fancy.

Cuongster uses his V-Trigger here and there, while he can deal real nasty damage with it, since he can CA after it and combo into V-Trigger after almost anything (target combo into EX FB then V-Trigger into CA is a punish he could have landed a couple of times, since he was sitting on his full EX bar almost all rounds). No "KoF 94 evade and hit" used at all (besides 1 time when Mitsu used a fireball at jumpin range lol). etc

But worst part is definitely watching that R.Mika not using anything that makes Mika scary at all : no corner game, no mixups after his EX Kick special throw, calling Nadeshiko randomly etc


Those matches really felt lacking after what you could see during beta tests, with less "famous" people being way better than that.

Every SFV "exhibition" so far feels like that : people seem to have trained for 30min, land basic shit, and rely on their knowledge of how to play footsies.
V-Skill/V-Trigger/V-Reversals are rarely used or randomly.


Can't wait for USF4 to die after Capcom Cup later this year, so that people concentrate on SFV, so that these matches get serious.

 

[THTB]

I've played SFV quite a bit from the betas.

A lot of the V-Trigger sentiments is that there's no general reason to not use them, even in neutral, right now. That's pretty true. There's tons of abstract situations to use them, and just the effects for most of the V-Triggers are pretty worth having. Using them in confirms, using the activation to scout, and various niche situations for the action V-Triggers, like a free corner escape for Vega. It'll become more refined in usage as time goes on, but that aspect is likely going to remain in that there's a lot of reasons to not specifically save them for damage.

On the building V-Trigger part, TKR was using st.HK a lot. The move itself is slow, so there's not really much room to use it in frame traps to land the counter hits, so where does it get applied? Footsies. Getting the target combo for Necalli requires him actually getting close enough to use it, since it starts off his st.MK. It's honestly not that easy to get in with Necalli against some of the better neutral characters in the game like Vega or Chun. So raw V-Skill gets usage in footsies more than you'll honestly see the target combo.

Cuongster was using the V-Trigger as a utility option. Yeah, it can be used for combos, but it has strong utility factors as well. Which is where he opted to go with it.

The lack of V-Reversal use stems from a couple factors. The V-Triggers themselves are extremely good. And the pressure in the game so far isn't really so overwhelming that you're compelled to get them off of you ASAP, unless you're like Dhalsim. Throw ranges are really short (even on command throws), you're usually pushed out of range for anything after 2 normals, and there's no threat behind being at chip kill range unless they have full meter. The Reversals are also generally slow, and you can bait them out.

There's a lot of things going on in the matches that are good. It's early, so yeah, it still looks pretty rough. But from what everyone's gathered so far, this is the current meta of the game...a huge emphasis on the basics.

 

[GAV]

Make fighters that could actually be fighters. Half the cast right now is completely unrealistic.

 

[haketh]

Make fighters that could actually be fighters. Half the cast right now is completely unrealistic.

That's always been Street Fighter & FGs in general

 

[mercureXI]

I've played SFV quite a bit from the betas.

A lot of the V-Trigger sentiments is that there's no general reason to not use them, even in neutral, right now. That's pretty true. There's tons of abstract situations to use them, and just the effects for most of the V-Triggers are pretty worth having. Using them in confirms, using the activation to scout, and various niche situations for the action V-Triggers, like a free corner escape for Vega. It'll become more refined in usage as time goes on, but that aspect is likely going to remain in that there's a lot of reasons to not specifically save them for damage.

On the building V-Trigger part, TKR was using st.HK a lot. The move itself is slow, so there's not really much room to use it in frame traps to land the counter hits, so where does it get applied? Footsies. Getting the target combo for Necalli requires him actually getting close enough to use it, since it starts off his st.MK. It's honestly not that easy to get in with Necalli against some of the better neutral characters in the game like Vega or Chun. So raw V-Skill gets usage in footsies more than you'll honestly see the target combo.

Cuongster was using the V-Trigger as a utility option. Yeah, it can be used for combos, but it has strong utility factors as well. Which is where he opted to go with it.

The lack of V-Reversal use stems from a couple factors. The V-Triggers themselves are extremely good. And the pressure in the game so far isn't really so overwhelming that you're compelled to get them off of you ASAP, unless you're like Dhalsim. Throw ranges are really short (even on command throws), you're usually pushed out of range for anything after 2 normals, and there's no threat behind being at chip kill range unless they have full meter. The Reversals are also generally slow, and you can bait them out.

There's a lot of things going on in the matches that are good. It's early, so yeah, it still looks pretty rough. But from what everyone's gathered so far, this is the current meta of the game...a huge emphasis on the basics.

- About Cuongster :

Not really saying he should save it, but when he hits with it (and he did that a few times), he could have used his CA right after it and win the round quite a few times since he wasn't using any EX move anyway.

Same with punishing with his target into trigger into CA, instead of using low damage shit. No need to save it for a "out of corner" moment if you kill your opponent with your next punish (and especially true when V gauge resets anyway).

V-Trigger as a free "out of corner" option is ok I guess, not sure it's actually safe though, or unstuffable on wakeup either.


- About TKR :

Using his V-Skill across screen seems ok though not his best way to counter zoning projectiles (his charge dash special has projectile armor), but really is poor at mid range. The risk/reward is totally laughable. You hit, you get almost nothing out of it (low damage, charge a bit of V-Trigger) on the other hand, if your opponent jumps or dash in, you are free like PerfectLegend to SonicFox

Landing his target combo instead of any other combo is trading damage for V gauge, it can pay off depending on how close you are to activating his V-Trigger.


- V-Reversals :

They are way better than most people think, considering they can get you out of a corner just as easy as Vega, for less gauge, and more importantly, without having to commit at all : you can just wait for a special on guard, and usually be able to push your opponent away (Necalli) or even get your opponent into the corner and switch side (Cammy).

Since V gauge resets every round, it's useful when you are close to end the round and have no chance to build the gauge to full, or when you need more defensive options (Dhalsim seems that kind, you're right).


Pressure on guard, I tend to agree with you though, is not as scary as it was in USF4. Only characters that seem scary on guard are Mika (cLK, LK>MP combo or cLK>special throw) or Laura (dash cancels / throws) ... and of course not quick standing after Ryu's MP>MP>V-Trigger>cHK meaning full charge denjin into CA in your teeth + stun meter almost full


Can't wait for February though. Game shapes up to be good now that they removed USF4's unholy trinity (vortex, focus attack, comeback ultras).

 

[Gamer68]

Make fighters that could actually be fighters. Half the cast right now is completely unrealistic.

No. Not everything has to be "realistic", especially when it comes to Street Fighter.

 

[GAV]

No. Not everything has to be "realistic", especially when it comes to Street Fighter.

For you, that may be the case. For me, not so.

 

[GAV]

That's always been Street Fighter & FGs in general

Not in the early SFII's. Chun Li was the only girl for the longest time.

Silly and unrealistic fighting game characters - like R. Mika and El Fuerte - are of a much newer trend.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

I will miss vortex.. Seth is so satisfying.

 

[VenomX-90]

For the ppl who played it, how is it?

 

[mercureXI]

For the ppl who played it, how is it?

If you have a decent a PC, you still can try and play the hacked version from latest beta, which has 12 characters, training mode, VS IA and a "versus mode" (1 round only).

Pretty good game so far, a step in the right direction from USF4 back to SF2 in terms of footsies and overall feeling.

Removing knockdown setups and giving a more "technical" comeback mechanic (V-Trigger) makes the game more satisfying, and removing FA cancels and FA in general improves footsies and you have to commit once again on wakeup (especially with auto Crush Counter on whiffed dragon punches).

Not to mention you can no longer jab into almost anything, which makes other buttons more important overall, and knowing what is + on guard a priority (often, standing mediums), while having a strong emphasis on HP/HK crush counters which give you 1) V gauge 2) special stun state / special juggle state that permit special combos not possible without CC.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Not in the early SFII's. Chun Li was the only girl for the longest time.

Silly and unrealistic fighting game characters - like R. Mika and El Fuerte - are of a much newer trend.

I personally find Chun Li much more unrealistic than both

 

[haketh]

Not in the early SFII's. Chun Li was the only girl for the longest time.

Silly and unrealistic fighting game characters - like R. Mika and El Fuerte - are of a much newer trend.

How are Mika & El unrealistic? Have you watched wrestling? Have you actually seen what Gief has been doing since SFII? Hell Mika is pretty damn grounded herself.

 

[GAV]

How are Mika & El unrealistic? Have you watched wrestling? Have you actually seen what Gief has been doing since SFII? Hell Mika is pretty damn grounded herself.

You can't be serious.

 

[GAV]

I personally find Chun Li much more unrealistic than both

They tried to rob my junior instructor. It started with one. When that went south, it became three. All three ended up in the hospital.

Wrestling moves from Mika and Fuerte's arsenal are from pro wrestling - and those moves don't actually work.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

And traditional martial arts are a laughable joke in a real fight, but there inclusion isn't unrealistic within the SF universe. And before a couple people pop up to try and dispute that statement, OTHER than traditional grappling arts, there no single professional fighter today that employs a traditional martial art and his effective at a high level. Pieces of those arts are used, but just tiny pieces, fit within a much more realistically effective shell.

As to your instructor putting muggers in hospital , that was an experience gap, ideally, anyone trained in ANY fighting art is going to win against someone who isn't.

I just don't understand how we're are on a website dedicated to a game with multiple characters who keep dieing and coming back to life, have metal arms.so strong they can punch dirt so hard it throws you in the air, then defy gravity and a few laws of physics by keeping you.bouncing around.. Along with, oh, LKs bicycle kick for a starter? Or ya know, him.shooting fireballs. Or any of the 10,000 other things that utterly defy reality. Look at any characters moveset and tell me half of them even make sense? Sub has a couple punches that if you really watch the animation, are HILARIOUS. They look like something a pair of 10yr olds playing at a fight would throw.

You all need to understand that MOST forms of entertainmentol of this type require a certain suspension of belief of the part of the user/watcher. A realistic movie or book, to me, is one that makes sense within itself.

Lord of the Rings was mostly quite reasonable and realistic within its own world. Now, had Bilbo pulled a gat and capped a bitch at some point.. Not so much. If Shadowfax had been Gandalfs pet name for his Porsche.. Not so much.

But I'll tell you true, professional wrestling moves aren't that much more.unrealistic and pointless in a real fight than a lot of non-grappling bases traditional martial arts moves and ideals. I'm sorry, and I know I sound like an asshole, but I've spent 2/3rds or so of my 33yrs on this earth engages in contact sports and I have never seen either stand up or out when faced with newer and more.practical approaches.

Realism makes.no sense to discuss in this framework. At all unless the game betrays itself to add in an element.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

II mean, not to keep picking on Jax, but he shoots you with a ROCKET LAUNCHER OR UZI and it does no more damage than certain punches and kicks.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

If you have a decent a PC, you still can try and play the hacked version from latest beta, which has 12 characters, training mode, VS IA and a "versus mode" (1 round only).

Pretty good game so far, a step in the right direction from USF4 back to SF2 in terms of footsies and overall feeling.

Removing knockdown setups and giving a more "technical" comeback mechanic (V-Trigger) makes the game more satisfying, and removing FA cancels and FA in general improves footsies and you have to commit once again on wakeup (especially with auto Crush Counter on whiffed dragon punches).

Not to mention you can no longer jab into almost anything, which makes other buttons more important overall, and knowing what is + on guard a priority (often, standing mediums), while having a strong emphasis on HP/HK crush counters which give you 1) V gauge 2) special stun state / special juggle state that permit special combos not possible without CC.

@mercureXI

Would you mind PMing me? I have a similar version but its nowhere near as functional as what you seem to have, o only have up to Rashid unlocked. If you.could.hit.me up with a link or something id super appreciate it. I REALLY want to lab Laura and Sim.

 

[GAV]

And traditional martial arts are a laughable joke in a real fight, but there inclusion isn't unrealistic within the SF universe. And before a couple people pop up to try and dispute that statement, OTHER than traditional grappling arts, there no single professional fighter today that employs a traditional martial art and his effective at a high level. Pieces of those arts are used, but just tiny pieces, fit within a much more realistically effective shell.

As to your instructor putting muggers in hospital , that was an experience gap, ideally, anyone trained in ANY fighting art is going to win against someone who isn't.

I just don't understand how we're are on a website dedicated to a game with multiple characters who keep dieing and coming back to life, have metal arms.so strong they can punch dirt so hard it throws you in the air, then defy gravity and a few laws of physics by keeping you.bouncing around.. Along with, oh, LKs bicycle kick for a starter? Or ya know, him.shooting fireballs. Or any of the 10,000 other things that utterly defy reality. Look at any characters moveset and tell me half of them even make sense? Sub has a couple punches that if you really watch the animation, are HILARIOUS. They look like something a pair of 10yr olds playing at a fight would throw.

You all need to understand that MOST forms of entertainmentol of this type require a certain suspension of belief of the part of the user/watcher. A realistic movie or book, to me, is one that makes sense within itself.

Lord of the Rings was mostly quite reasonable and realistic within its own world. Now, had Bilbo pulled a gat and capped a bitch at some point.. Not so much. If Shadowfax had been Gandalfs pet name for his Porsche.. Not so much.

But I'll tell you true, professional wrestling moves aren't that much more.unrealistic and pointless in a real fight than a lot of non-grappling bases traditional martial arts moves and ideals. I'm sorry, and I know I sound like an asshole, but I've spent 2/3rds or so of my 33yrs on this earth engages in contact sports and I have never seen either stand up or out when faced with newer and more.practical approaches.

Realism makes.no sense to discuss in this framework. At all unless the game betrays itself to add in an element.

Professional fighting is a sport.

She was an unarmed woman. They were three thugs.

I started training boxing when I was 9. I stopped when I was in HS to play football. Then, I trained boxing until I moved to Kung Fu and never stopped. Now, I'm 40.

Boxing has applications in self-defense. MMA has applications in self defense. Kung Fu is ALL applications in self defense. When self defense becomes a sport, it is no longer self defense. Its a sport first and serves as self defense second.

I've competed in boxing. I've competed in MMA. I've helped train boxers. I've helped fighters train for MMA. Kung Fu is a far superior discipline for self defense than both of them, but it has limited application in the sports of boxing and MMA.

 

[GAV]

Believable as a fighter -->

Not believable as a fighter -->

 

[Afk Skinny]

Believable as a fighter -->

Not believable as a fighter -->

That's sexist. Women fighters aren't believable?

 

[GAV]

That's sexist. Women fighters aren't believable?

R. Mika isn't believable as a fighter. Cammy, Chun Li, and even the new Brazilian girl I'm fine with.

I'm not fine with joke characters, like Dan, El Fuerte, Rufus, and R. Mika.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

Professional fighting is a sport.

She was an unarmed woman. They were three thugs.

I started training boxing when I was 9. I stopped when I was in HS to play football. Then, I trained boxing until I moved to Kung Fu and never stopped. Now, I'm 40.

Boxing has applications in self-defense. MMA has applications in self defense. Kung Fu is ALL applications in self defense. When self defense becomes a sport, it is no longer self defense. Its a sport first and serves as self defense second.

I've competed in boxing. I've competed in MMA. I've helped train boxers. I've helped fighters train for MMA. Kung Fu is a far superior discipline for self defense than both of them, but it has limited application in the sports of boxing and MMA.

Krav Maga is self defense. I would take MMA training over Kung Fu or many other traditional martial arts training for self defense in a heart beat. As a matter of fact, American style boxing is.one of the absolute BEST methods of self defense on the planet. Supplimemted with a little basic grappling. Shock and awe stop most confrontations, which any form of self defense teaches (ie, heavily damaging someone right away because you know how to throw a punch), but if it moves past the skill gap phase and in to an actual fight, most traditional martial arts re not equipped to deal with it.

I have no intention of continuing to argue over the internet about real fighting beyond this last post. Your experience differs from mine so drastically that I have no idea how we would ever meet in the middle and I can't think of a single thing more pathetic than two grown men argueing on the internet about how real fights will play out. I don't mean that as a potshot, I'm.arguing too, in just saying , in general, my reasons for not wanting to continue this argument lol. We both have experience and our opinions differ considerably, to which I can only shrug. The low and amateur levels of mma competitions are a lot more street fight than sport, it stabalizes as you.climb the ladder.

I DO hope we can both agree.that if your aim is purely self defense, you'll just go learn Krav Maga and kill everyone forever.