Seriously... Something needs to be done about the pokes

[CrimsonShadow]

My guy you are literally spouting misinformation and blaming the game. There is no randomness involved, it is you. If nut punch or teleport was not punishable sometimes, that’s not the game, that’s you being too slow. Saying that kind of randomness isn’t healthy doesn’t make sense because there isn’t any randomness involved at all. Also if you’re able to punish sub’s f24 with a string you can punish it with d1. Do you not understand how frame data works?

And lastly if you can barely punish things in training mode then again its you. Everyone else here punishes plenty of things fine. Most moves in this game have enough blockstun to be able to be punished on reaction easily.

I mean this in the nicest way, but you just sound like a bad player without any knowledge so you’re blaming the game.

He does this in every thread. It’s been pretty clear that he doesn’t understand the game and just refuses to level up.

I’ve explained this to him 2-3 times, and even tried to help him learn and give him info.

 

[Yousef]

Guys teleports and nutpunch are punishable basically nutpunch is (-14) and teleport is more
The least u can do is poke
But yeah if lag spikes online you might get your inputs delayed so you feel like oh it's not
But it's punishable online offline
I tested both on 230 ping which is the weakest connection you can get for a match

 

[Gaxkang]

Are you purposely being dense? I even specifically said that its always your fault UNLESS it lag spikes. Read that again, I said UNLESS it lag spikes. Jesus.

Punishing it with a string and a d1 both work every single damn time, if its not working its 100% on you again, UNLESS IT LAG SPIKES (since you need this to pointed out apparently.) If I can punish it 100% fine 10/10, how can it possibly be the game? We’re both playing the same version of the game here.

Blocking an unsafe move and hitting a button that can punish it is LITERALLY HOW IT WORKS. This is already in the game already and has been in every fighting game with comprehensive frame data since their inception. IT IS YOU NOT THE GAME.

I punish Scorpion’s teleport perfectly fucking fine online. Anytime I don’t its either on me and not the game, or there was a lag spike. The actual game itself will literally always allow a punish if I physically input the button fast enough. EVERYTIME.

Please for the love of God read my comment properly and listen because you’re either trolling at this point, or if you’re being 100% serious, just straight up unwilling to admit fault. As many times as I need to say it, it is on you for not punishing things, short of lag spikes. Even moves with low blockstun, its still on you. It is never the game’s fault, and there’s no randomness involved in the frame data. It’s always consistent, there’s never a random reason for it to change, there’s no RNG at play at all. The only game I’ve ever heard of random frame data was MK9, and that wasn’t intentional, that was because that game was an unbalanced buggy mess. Those bugs don’t exist at all in this game.

Last thing, if you’re really adamant that sometimes punishes work and sometimes they don’t, just post a YouTube video so we can see if what you’re saying is true.

You defined lag spikes as when the orange or red symbol appears...which unless I misunderstood you, meant there's no lag unless that is there. I disagreed with that.

And when I say random I'm referring to online affecting, not bugs in gameplay. I do think the game design itself makes its more vulnerable to being affected online.

And if you're suggesting all online experiences are the same, I don't think i'd agree with that either.

I gave my observations and when I use the same timing for punishments and online they can differ, I don't consider that the player's fault. I certainly can admit to fault in other situations of the game where I rolled the dice wrong, which is a lot of the game, rolling dice.

I know some folks want to believe online fights are perfect in quality unless the fight is basically choking out to disconnect, but I don't agree.

And like I said, I don't play online anymore, so I don't think will trying to record hours of fights heh. Back when I used to play SFV I did record some things to show people...but even in that game people insisted the online was perfectly fine.

 

[Gaxkang]

@Gaxkang

Up there with Curbo, LoveThoughts, and Soundslikepause, SonicNinja might very well be the best Kabal in the NRS community. I urge you to reconsider your approach from the "online has issues" standpoint.

Well that's good to be among the best, but to be candid I don't think most or anyone really likes fighting Kabal online. Any more than certain other characters.

 

[Hellbringer]

I certainly can admit to fault in other situations of the game where I rolled the dice wrong, which is a lot of the game, rolling dice.

Seems like you cant admit that your ass is too slow to punish things so therefor you blame the game and the online lag.

Hilarious how so many ppl on tym complain about lag and wifi warriors in KL but as soon as you ask them for games they suddenly dont have time and wont respond, even got ppl to delete their status update because of it lol

 

[Gaxkang]

Seems like you cant admit that your ass is too slow to punish things so therefor you blame the game and the online lag.

Hilarious how so many ppl on tym complain about lag and wifi warriors in KL but as soon as you ask them for games they suddenly dont have time and wont respond, even got ppl to delete their status update because of it lol

Well you're entitled to your opinion.

 

[Gaxkang]

He does this in every thread. It’s been pretty clear that he doesn’t understand the game and just refuses to level up.

I’ve explained this to him 2-3 times, and even tried to help him learn and give him info.

Well I remember talking to you in the past about punishing Baraka in training mode, and i painted out different scenarios i set up...you left the discussion and basically told me what i was seeing was not real. Ya didn't acknowledge what the training mode was showing....it seemed foreign to you i guess.
And that's offline stuff anyways.

 

[SonicNinja3532]

You defined lag spikes as when the orange or red symbol appears...which unless I misunderstood you, meant there's no lag unless that is there. I disagreed with that.

And when I say random I'm referring to online affecting, not bugs in gameplay. I do think the game design itself makes its more vulnerable to being affected online.

And if you're suggesting all online experiences are the same, I don't think i'd agree with that either.

I gave my observations and when I use the same timing for punishments and online they can differ, I don't consider that the player's fault. I certainly can admit to fault in other situations of the game where I rolled the dice wrong, which is a lot of the game, rolling dice.

I know some folks want to believe online fights are perfect in quality unless the fight is basically choking out to disconnect, but I don't agree.

And like I said, I don't play online anymore, so I don't think will trying to record hours of fights heh. Back when I used to play SFV I did record some things to show people...but even in that game people insisted the online was perfectly fine.

Again unless its lag spiking the connection wont cause you to miss your punishes. Lag spikes are the only times that it can affect that, otherwise it’s fine. Also all online experiences in stable connections are the same. Higher ping matches are a bit more jittery in movement, but moves still function the same and are able to be punished the same way. I feel like you’re missing this important point, how can the rest of us punish things fine and you can’t.

Matter of fact please just answer that question, since you seem to avoid it. I never said it was perfect but I said it is possible to punish things, you’ve literally been saying that there’s randomness involved in punishment which is factually untrue, and if by randomness you mean lag spikes affecting your inputs, that’s the case for literally every single fighting game online that lags. Again short of lag spikes its on you.

 

[SonicNinja3532]

Well that's good to be among the best, but to be candid I don't think most or anyone really likes fighting Kabal online. Any more than certain other characters.

What does this even have to do with anything? What does not liking kabal have to do with player skill and knowledge? Like you didn’t even address his point remotely.

 

[SonicNinja3532]

Well I remember talking to you in the past about punishing Baraka in training mode, and i painted out different scenarios i set up...you left the discussion and basically told me what i was seeing was not real. Ya didn't acknowledge what the training mode was showing....it seemed foreign to you i guess.
And that's offline stuff anyways.

And lastly if you can’t punish things offline where there’s no excuse, you’re just bad. It is the truth but for some reason you want to make excuses instead of accepting and getting better. Matter of fact, since you don’t play online why not post a video of you trying punish these things offline instead?

 

[Gaxkang]

Again unless its lag spiking the connection wont cause you to miss your punishes. Lag spikes are the only times that it can affect that, otherwise it’s fine. Also all online experiences in stable connections are the same. Higher ping matches are a bit more jittery in movement, but moves still function the same and are able to be punished the same way. I feel like you’re missing this important point, how can the rest of us punish things fine and you can’t.

Matter of fact please just answer that question, since you seem to avoid it. I never said it was perfect but I said it is possible to punish things, you’ve literally been saying that there’s randomness involved in punishment which is factually untrue, and if by randomness you mean lag spikes affecting your inputs, that’s the case for literally every single fighting game online that lags. Again short of lag spikes its on you.

Well that's the thing I'm not the only one who sees probs. People know especially online the game is not about reactions...someone may well react to something fine, but the game will not follow that. Online I'd say Sub Zero's slide is unreactable at all ranges, while offline you should be able to at least react to long range.
Other people see issues with punishment working correctly all the time...and the game by design isn't punishment heavy to begin with.

And I don't agree with your assessment of lag. People can have fights where it definitely feels different...but it's not spiking violently like you describe. And more than movement can be impacted.
I remember getting matched with the UK once, and I'm in America. The fight felt different but it wasn't violent spikes.

 

[Gaxkang]

What does this even have to do with anything? What does not liking kabal have to do with player skill and knowledge? Like you didn’t even address his point remotely.

Note the caveat..."online".

Kinda like, fighting Sub Zero online. Even when one beats him, the experience was not enjoyable.

 

[Gaxkang]

And lastly if you can’t punish things offline where there’s no excuse, you’re just bad. It is the truth but for some reason you want to make excuses instead of accepting and getting better. Matter of fact, since you don’t play online why not post a video of you trying punish these things offline instead?

Oh punishing stuff offline isn't an issue. You block Scorp's teleport offline, the punishment will always hit for example unless one waits way too long. You block, you press, it hits...that's how it should work with real unsafe moves.

You may have misunderstood what I was referring to there, it was stuff i was setting up offline in training mode vs. a certain Baraka move and then also considering how it can work out going online plus my own experiences fighting Barakas online:

NRS dedication to MK11

So basically I'm supposed to be studying for my finals tomorrow but I ran into this on youtube and I decided to last my 1-term break a bit longer. So here goes. LONG POST WARNING Most of you must have known, or at least heard of Sikander. He was a great player in MKX. He still is in MK11, but...

testyourmight.com

What I felt was that punishment was limited, and with the added neutral skippiness of the move perhaps amplified online, that generally one wanted to be on offense rather than blocking or trying to make a whiff occur.
If I got something wrong, it did not get apparent from whom I was speaking to. But obviously it was felt i was totally ignorant , despite setting up various interactions in training mode.

 

[SonicNinja3532]

Online I'd say Sub Zero's slide is unreactable at all ranges, while offline you should be able to at least react to long range.

Yeah you don’t even know what you’re talking about lol this move is unreactable anywhere and every where.

 

[Hellbringer]

Well that's the thing I'm not the only one who sees probs. People know especially online the game is not about reactions...someone may well react to something fine, but the game will not follow that. Online I'd say Sub Zero's slide is unreactable at all ranges, while offline you should be able to at least react to long range.
Other people see issues with punishment working correctly all the time...and the game by design isn't punishment heavy to begin with.

And I don't agree with your assessment of lag. People can have fights where it definitely feels different...but it's not spiking violently like you describe. And more than movement can be impacted.
I remember getting matched with the UK once, and I'm in America. The fight felt different but it wasn't violent spikes.

Online will always be harder to react because of the delay. But that doesnt mean punishing things is random UNLESS it just happens to lag right when u try to punish.
I dont have problems punishing stuff i know is punishable (and i play agains ppl with 200 ping alot) and im not even good so why cant you just stop blaming the game and git gudder?

 

[SonicNinja3532]

Oh punishing stuff offline isn't an issue. You block Scorp's teleport offline, the punishment will always hit for example unless one waits way too long. You block, you press, it hits...that's how it should work with real unsafe moves.

You may have misunderstood what I was referring to there, it was stuff i was setting up offline in training mode vs. a certain Baraka move and then also considering how it can work out going online plus my own experiences fighting Barakas online:

NRS dedication to MK11

So basically I'm supposed to be studying for my finals tomorrow but I ran into this on youtube and I decided to last my 1-term break a bit longer. So here goes. LONG POST WARNING Most of you must have known, or at least heard of Sikander. He was a great player in MKX. He still is in MK11, but...

testyourmight.com

What I felt was that punishment was limited, and with the added neutral skippiness of the move perhaps amplified online, that generally one wanted to be on offense rather than blocking or trying to make a whiff occur.
If I got something wrong, it did not get apparent from whom I was speaking to. But obviously it was felt i was totally ignorant , despite setting up various interactions in training mode.

Why have you not answered the question? If its apparently so inconsistent, why do I land all of my punishes on scorpion’s teleport and other unsafe moves? Even online in bad connections?

 

[SonicNinja3532]

Online will always be harder to react because of the delay. But that doesnt mean punishing things is random UNLESS it just happens to lag right when u try to punish.
I dont have problems punishing stuff i know is punishable and im not even good so why cant you just stop blaming the game and git gudder?

At this point its like arguing with a child honestly, its like he can’t even see the points. Its like arguing with MKF30.

 

[Gaxkang]

Why have you not answered the question? If its apparently so inconsistent, why do I land all of my punishes on scorpion’s teleport and other unsafe moves? Even online in bad connections?

Bad connections as in...violent lag spikes you described earlier? I'd be skeptical of that, but perhaps the lag gods are merciful to you even when the fight is about to disconnect.

I'd be loathe to assume my experiences means everyone else has the same experiences, but you are assuming with your own.
But from what I've seen, I'm not the only one. A frequent complaint is the poke system feeling more distorted online.

 

[Gaxkang]

Online will always be harder to react because of the delay. But that doesnt mean punishing things is random UNLESS it just happens to lag right when u try to punish.
I dont have problems punishing stuff i know is punishable (and i play agains ppl with 200 ping alot) and im not even good so why cant you just stop blaming the game and git gudder?

I've said things can be random. This for some folks has inspired a feeling that it's a myth and they must dispute it.

And 200 ping..., I wouldn't tell people things will always work correctly. If you manage that's fine, but i wouldn't guarantee it to everyone.

And i've given criticism of the game before, how i feel it'd be better. i myself have no desire these days to go into grinding into higher ranks since the gameplay mixed with the online doesn't do it for me.

 

[Gaxkang]

At this point its like arguing with a child honestly, its like he can’t even see the points. Its like arguing with MKF30.

Well I can see what I broached inspires certain feelings from certain people heh.

But sure I can see your points, i just don't agree with them.

 

[SonicNinja3532]

Bad connections as in...violent lag spikes you described earlier? I'd be skeptical of that, but perhaps the lag gods are merciful to you even when the fight is about to disconnect.

I'd be loathe to assume my experiences means everyone else has the same experiences, but you are assuming with your own.
But from what I've seen, I'm not the only one. A frequent complaint is the poke system feeling more distorted online.

You know what? You’re hopeless lol. I genuinely don’t have the energy to argue with you anymore because its killing my brain cells

 

[CrimsonShadow]

You know what? You’re hopeless lol. I genuinely don’t have the energy to argue with you anymore because its killing my brain cells

I tried to warn you. I’m always down for trying to help a poster, and I really genuinely wanted to help him, but he is intentionally beyond help.

I was going to say that it’s like MKF but you already figured that out.

One of the things that’s unfortunate about people complaining about every little thing, is that now even lower-level players feel that they can just blame the engine for everything instead of fixing their own gameplay.

 

[Gaxkang]

You know what? You’re hopeless lol. I genuinely don’t have the energy to argue with you anymore because its killing my brain cells

That's ok, many folks get the same feeling fighting certain characters online or even the general gameplay especially online.

 

[Gaxkang]

I tried to warn you. I’m always down for trying to help a poster, and I really genuinely wanted to help him, but he is intentionally beyond help.

I was going to say that it’s like MKF but you already figured that out.

One of the things that’s unfortunate about people complaining about every little thing, is that now even lower-level players feel that they can just blame the engine for everything instead of fixing their own gameplay.

What you tend to consider little things occupy centerpieces of the gameplay or experience.

It's cool if some folks like that...some people won't once they see what it is.

But people insisting nothing gets out of whack online is a fixture of fighting games. I merely related some things I have seen...it's cool if some folks are intent on seeing it all as myths.

 

[ExpectFlames]

Reading some of these comments are kinda cringe. I think what should be important to note, punishes in this game cannot be done reactionnally on any consistent basis online there is far to much variance with different types of blockstuns THAT CHANGE based on the distance your at. So when players say consistency there actually speaking to variance, now yes you guys absolutely right that punishes are consistent in anticipation under no circumstance is scorps tele or jonnys nut punch safe however online is brave world where your fastest buttons are highs and everyone mashes EVERYONE has experienced this so I get what the fuss is all about.