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Sektor Patch Changes

Metalic

Noob
you could do all this pre patch dude, ive been doing it for yonks with the regular Um XD

the front missile just helps against a few characters.
Oh, shit, worded that pretty badly (I'll blame the lack of sleep at 6am instead of myself for now, which I'm fixing after this post.) Meant the F2B1 part of working in to my game. Knew you could do it with regular UM but had no real idea how to follow up if it was during getting combo'd. Was typing on I.M about the patch and kind of just threw it in the post by accident, lol. Still, FM cancels might give a few more shots at working in the follow up anyway.
 

PND_Ketchup

"More deadly than the dawn"
Oh, shit, worded that pretty badly (I'll blame the lack of sleep at 6am instead of myself for now, which I'm fixing after this post.) Meant the F2B1 part of working in to my game. Knew you could do it with regular UM but had no real idea how to follow up if it was during getting combo'd. Was typing on I.M about the patch and kind of just threw it in the post by accident, lol. Still, FM cancels might give a few more shots at working in the follow up anyway.
ahhhh i get ya, fair enough man. you don't want to follow it up with the B1 all the time, its safe but the recovery time is a LOONG time. you dont get punished but they get some guaranteed pressure lol.
 

SwiftTomHanks

missiles are coming
I'm on ps3 so I haven't been able to explore anything yet. But on paper being able to end a combo with b2, directed up missile - I was all like:
 

spongebob

ಠ__ಠ
I'm on ps3 so I haven't been able to explore anything yet. But on paper being able to end a combo with b2, directed up missile - I was all like:
The better way to end combo's with up missle is f4 up missle because then your only punishable by a fast wakeup and they have to recovery roll first which not a lot of people do.

B2 up missle will still be sketchy and easily punisahble even if you can cancel into infront. I can't test but i'd guess characters like raiden would just plain avoid it and a special like non ex slide would get hit but still trade with you anyway knocking you down making it worthless.
 

SwiftTomHanks

missiles are coming
I was thinking that if someone were to tech roll back, the back missile would hit the in the roll. If that's not the case... I'll go back to my corner.

I do know about f4 being the best thing to cancel with. However you have to cut your combo way short in most cases to do this. B2 is normally the second last hit of most combos. As of now you can use the up missile to bait wake ups, so that will still be there for characters who want to slide out of the trap.

Raiden doesn't care about anyone's shit.
 

spongebob

ಠ__ಠ
I was thinking that if someone were to tech roll back, the back missile would hit the in the roll. If that's not the case... I'll go back to my corner.

I do know about f4 being the best thing to cancel with. However you have to cut your combo way short in most cases to do this. B2 is normally the second last hit of most combos. As of now you can use the up missile to bait wake ups, so that will still be there for characters who want to slide out of the trap.

Raiden doesn't care about anyone's shit.
I'm pretty sure you can get f4 in most places where you can get B2 it's just a bit harder. It works at the end of most bnb's though like 12b1 jk TU jk ex TU f4 will work.

Also I found a place to put 214 into a combo:

Naked TU f4 dash 214. The knock after the 214 is great. No matter what they do you always get a guaranteed up missle even if they recovery roll into their wakeup. I didn't test against all wakeup teleports tho but you can still block moves like superman, and they have to be rolling and inputting the wakeup before they even see upmissle.
 

SwiftTomHanks

missiles are coming
I'm pretty sure you can get f4 in most places where you can get B2 it's just a bit harder. It works at the end of most bnb's though like 12b1 jk TU jk ex TU f4 will work.

Also I found a place to put 214 into a combo:

Naked TU f4 dash 214. The knock after the 214 is great. No matter what they do you always get a guaranteed up missle even if they recovery roll into their wakeup. I didn't test against all wakeup teleports tho but you can still block moves like superman, and they have to be rolling and inputting the wakeup before they even see upmissle.
Hey man, I tried doing the 12b1,jk,tu,jk,extu,f4 into up missile. While it works - the f4 at the end sends them to the ground FAST! Imo, faster than a b2 at the end of a combo.

Check it out for yourself, let me know.

The tu,f4,214 is pretty slick for finding it out. I'll have to try it out in real combat. Right now what I do off a normal tu is:
tu,b21,b34, (then end with either tu or up missile)
 

spongebob

ಠ__ಠ
Hey man, I tried doing the 12b1,jk,tu,jk,extu,f4 into up missile. While it works - the f4 at the end sends them to the ground FAST! Imo, faster than a b2 at the end of a combo.

Check it out for yourself, let me know.

The tu,f4,214 is pretty slick for finding it out. I'll have to try it out in real combat. Right now what I do off a normal tu is:
tu,b21,b34, (then end with either tu or up missile)
F4 up missle doesn't send them to the ground fast, it may look like that but once they hit the ground they stay their for a while before they can wakeup, the only way to punish your up missle is by tech rolling then doing a wakeup in which case they can roll straight away after hitting the ground.

With B2 though once they hit the ground they can wakeup instantly and punish your up missle, and they can do it on reaction once they see your up missle too so theres no baiting with not doing up missle. Thing is if they recovery roll then wakeup after b2 up missle you can block it.

I think you can also escape up missle after both setups by just tech rolling lol.

So really theres no real reset situation with an up missle ender or 100% safe option unless you just up missle after an ex TU. Using up missle to end a combo when not in a corner has always been sketchy but you'll find most people you play against won't know the different options to escape which is why its not completely useless.

I prefer f4 214 after TU just because I know its far easier and I'll land it more (online especially) then b21 b34 TU. It gives you a free up missle and puts you at zoning distance where'as TU ending a combo doesn't really do a lot.
 

PND_Ketchup

"More deadly than the dawn"
F4 UM is only reliable when you do a small combo with it at the end. If you do a regular one bar bnb like 1,2,B1, F4,4,TU,JK,EXTU,F4 the kicks really slow and i find you may as well go for the B2 as its faster.

feel free to disagree but i find that B2 is way more reliable due to its speed.
 

ryublaze

Noob
I set the training dummy (Sub-Zero) to do wake-up attacks and whenever I ended with B2 UM I always got hit by the slide. Ending with F4 UM I had time to block. But yeah, B2 is easier to land and does more damage than F4.
 

spongebob

ಠ__ಠ
F4 UM is only reliable when you do a small combo with it at the end. If you do a regular one bar bnb like 1,2,B1, F4,4,TU,JK,EXTU,F4 the kicks really slow and i find you may as well go for the B2 as its faster.

feel free to disagree but i find that B2 is way more reliable due to its speed.
Like I said it may look like they fall fast but they remain on the floor for much longer allowing you to block any wakeup attack. With B2 they can wakeup attack instantly upon hitting the floor.

Its not really that hard to time F4 you can just hold f whilst mashing 4 and you still have time to link the UM. B2 does about 1-2% more dmg I think its not a huge difference.

Tbh I think the most reliable ender is 12 flame. Even if you mistime a combo 12 flame will always hit and you still see people screw up b2 often enough, it may also be down to the game dropping directional inputs bug.
 

PND_Ketchup

"More deadly than the dawn"
Like I said it may look like they fall fast but they remain on the floor for much longer allowing you to block any wakeup attack. With B2 they can wakeup attack instantly upon hitting the floor.

Its not really that hard to time F4 you can just hold f whilst mashing 4 and you still have time to link the UM. B2 does about 1-2% more dmg I think its not a huge difference.

Tbh I think the most reliable ender is 12 flame. Even if you mistime a combo 12 flame will always hit and you still see people screw up b2 often enough, it may also be down to the game dropping directional inputs bug.
i get that input thing quite a lot, i always thought it was an online thing, but when im playing mustard offline and it STILL happens i get sceptical, especially as that never happens in any other fighting game i play.

i mean that i don't use the F4 because of the speed of the attack, not how fast they fall. The B2 is quicker so it's guaranteed to hit them whenever i play :p i don't get the problem of wakeups hitting me unless i mistime it, but thats on me haha :p
 

Robotic

Gentleman.
Am I the only one that uses d4 to hit them outta the air into upmissile? I find it a better option than either b2 or f4 and BEEN saying it. No one has seriously tried it?
 

PND_Ketchup

"More deadly than the dawn"
Am I the only one that uses d4 to hit them outta the air into upmissile? I find it a better option than either b2 or f4 and BEEN saying it. No one has seriously tried it?
when you sent me that pm i went straight into the lab, i just found i prefer B2 because A. i prefer the button input (i found it weird doing UM from a low attack, dont ask lol) and B. the B2 hasnt given me any troubles since i started using it so i may aswell keep at whats going well for me :)
 
It's been my experiences that almost everyone doesn't realize or doesn't care that b2>up missile is unsafe. Once that missile get's on the screen they panic at the threat of 8%. And if you don't want to risk it you can just use flame burner instead.
 

spongebob

ಠ__ಠ
Am I the only one that uses d4 to hit them outta the air into upmissile? I find it a better option than either b2 or f4 and BEEN saying it. No one has seriously tried it?
Your right theres absoultely no way to punish d4 up missle and doing it gives u 2% more then just doing up missle. Like all up missle traps it can be techrolled out of but now we can cancel into behind up missle that may be one of its few uses and you may be able to get a free block string like b21 if your opponent doesn't wakeup or even a jump in as they block the up missle. Looks like you can even do it off 1 and 2 as well any single move with little recovery should work.

I don't really think the inputs tricky either if you dash before it then theres no timing invovled. B2 up missle is not safe in any way but if the opponent isn't punishing you for it then keep using it I guess. It's just as soon as the opponent see up missle after B2 they have a lifetime to wakeup attack and punish you for it.
 

SwiftTomHanks

missiles are coming
It's been my experiences that almost everyone doesn't realize or doesn't care that b2>up missile is unsafe. Once that missile get's on the screen they panic at the threat of 8%. And if you don't want to risk it you can just use flame burner instead.
We're talking about at the end of combos.
 

Robotic

Gentleman.
We're talking about at the end of combos.
I think he is talking about that too. B2 is pretty unsafe, but due to the animation, it seems safer than it really is. I think this is a preference thing, though. At the end of combos, I prefer d4 to knock them outta the air and cancel into upmissile because I've tested it. To me, it seems like the safest option of them all. I don't dash in, I just wait a split second because if you d4 early, it will whiff. If it's too late, it becomes unsafe. Luckily, the window to get it right is pretty big. I encourage you all to try this for yourself as Ketchup did and decide whether it's viable - again, I swear by it over b2 and f4.

Quick thing about combo ending d4 into upmissile against Mileena: if you jip, she has zero ability to punish you. all of her wakeups will get her out if timed right, but they will all whiff; by the time she is done with the animations of her various moves, you are already inputting commands for your next move. All of this isn't even including the back upmissile cancel.

I'll test against more characters later and post my findings. Against Mileena, d4, upmissile, jip is your best bet.
 
I am too, I just didn't feel the need to post the rest of the combo(s) because the safety of the b2>up missile ender is what's in question.

It seems people just aren't willing to potentially trade the hits. That doesn't explain characters like Mileena and Reptile aren't going for the wake-up though.
 

spongebob

ಠ__ಠ
I tested out 1 up missle today against another sektor player earlier today and never got punished for it. I think thats a fine option as well if you don't want to do d4 and its the same dmg and easier to time.

The only character that can actually punish up missle ender when done right is smoke with shake I think.
 

Robotic

Gentleman.
I tested out 1 up missle today against another sektor player earlier today and never got punished for it. I think thats a fine option as well if you don't want to do d4 and its the same dmg and easier to time.

The only character that can actually punish up missle ender when done right is smoke with shake I think. Also this may or may not be completely useless I havn't even tried but you might be able to do f2 after up missle to switch sides and screw over their inputs. Probably won't work but I don't know see if theres anything there.
I tested smoke's shake as well, when using d4. The upmissile approaches too soon and he will get hit out of the starting animation of the shake. If he tech rolls, he won't get hit by it anyway, so no worries on either end.
 

SwiftTomHanks

missiles are coming
The only character I've had issues with in terms of wake ups is Mileena. Reptile's slide and overhead wake ups have never hit me after throwing out an up missile after b2 at the end of a combo. Don't get me wrong, if I go in for more pressure the wake up will work. The mind game is will they risk an unsafe wake up in fear of me getting another block string?

I'll have to check into these d4 shinanagans. I'm intrigued.