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Scrubbiest Character

Which is the scrubbiest character?

  • Sub Zero

    Votes: 22 7.9%
  • Sonya

    Votes: 22 7.9%
  • Scorpion

    Votes: 136 48.6%
  • Geras

    Votes: 25 8.9%
  • Cassie

    Votes: 3 1.1%
  • Jaqui

    Votes: 2 0.7%
  • Shang Tsung

    Votes: 2 0.7%
  • Liu Kang

    Votes: 23 8.2%
  • Erron black

    Votes: 45 16.1%

  • Total voters
    280

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
I'm a Kabal main right now and I think he's pretty scrubby. He's getting slept on a little by low execution players.
Being slept on =|= scrubby.

That would be like saying D'Vorah was slept on in MKX, making her scrubby because she wasn't used often. I think there is a vast difference in difficulty of usage or gameplan with Kabal, comparatively to Geras/Scorpion/Erron. But I am curious to what you'd define as scrubby traits for Kabal.
 

Vslayer

Curses in moose
Moderator
Premium Supporter
The only reason why I still play this game is because they got rid of that god damn ice clone. What a stupid, ridiculous, and obnoxious playstyle that was. For two games we had to put up with that cowardly shit. Great job, NRS!
The only thing that's wrong with Scorpion are his teleports. The neutral game means nothing when Scrub Zero players won't even attempt to use combos. They'll just keep you standing while they abuse their 50/50s, then the occasional grab. It feels like I'm playing Facebreaker against him. All guessing and no skill.
Sub-zero is not that bad in this game, and ice clone is/were fine. I mained him in IJ2 and it helped against the rest of the zoners in the cast, so 99% of the cast. I used to be on the 'Sub's 50/50s are annoying bandwagon', but after playing him extensively in the KL, it's not that bad. What's annoying is people who play ANY character in a scrubby way. But play a good Sub and you'll have a good time.
 

SaSSolino

Soul Stealing Loyalist
Premium Supporter
Sub-zero is not that bad in this game, and ice clone is/were fine. I mained him in IJ2 and it helped against the rest of the zoners in the cast, so 99% of the cast. I used to be on the 'Sub's 50/50s are annoying bandwagon', but after playing him extensively in the KL, it's not that bad. What's annoying is people who play ANY character in a scrubby way. But play a good Sub and you'll have a good time.
On other news: water is wet.

Of course if you play a Sub-Zero that doesn't abuse the overhead you are going to have a good time, but that's not the point of this thread. A scrubby character is one that allows scrubby players to shine, usually by forcing you to play their own game.

Nobody is saying that every single Scorpion player is a scrub... just most of them :)
 

Vslayer

Curses in moose
Moderator
Premium Supporter
On other news: water is wet.

Of course if you play a Sub-Zero that doesn't abuse the overhead you are going to have a good time, but that's not the point of this thread. A scrubby character is one that allows scrubby players to shine, usually by forcing you to play their own game.

Nobody is saying that every single Scorpion player is a scrub... just most of them :)
Sure, but if they abuse the overhead there's no reason for you to not be able to read and block it. Scrubby tactics are annoying, and it's even worse to lose to them, but there's always a way to counter them.
 

Wigy

There it is...
Sure, but if they abuse the overhead there's no reason for you to not be able to read and block it. Scrubby tactics are annoying, and it's even worse to lose to them, but there's always a way to counter them.
It's still a tactic that's very easy to do and hard to counter.

If his low wasnt hitconfirmable safe stagger string making the read would be a lot easier.
 

Wigy

There it is...
Sure, but if they abuse the overhead there's no reason for you to not be able to read and block it. Scrubby tactics are annoying, and it's even worse to lose to them, but there's always a way to counter them.
It's still a tactic that's very easy to do and hard to counter.

If his low wasnt hitconfirmable safe stagger string making the read would be a lot easier.
 

Vslayer

Curses in moose
Moderator
Premium Supporter
It's still a tactic that's very easy to do and hard to counter.

If his low wasnt hitconfirmable safe stagger string making the read would be a lot easier.
Patience pays off in this game, just look for patterns.
 

Wigy

There it is...
Patience pays off in this game, just look for patterns.
Again. The topic of the thread. Not making a complaint thread about sub. He's just easier than other characters

It's just really easy to implement and make work.

Sub really scares in the neutral with f4/mb ice ball/slide. Then he gets in with his flowchart mix.
 

Vslayer

Curses in moose
Moderator
Premium Supporter
Again. The topic of the thread. Not making a complaint thread about sub. He's just easier than other characters

It's just really easy to implement and make work.

Sub really scares in the neutral with f4/mb ice ball/slide. Then he gets in with his flowchart mix.
Right I get that, but the purpose of this thread is flawed since everyone can play like a scrub, the character isn't really at fault. Fighting games always have characters that are easier to play and some that require high execution because developers know that there are veterans that play their games, but also newcomers.

Either way, people who don't really want to learn the game properly will always find an easy way out of doing so. To me it seems the OP is just pissed at the top tiers, and I get it, I am sick and tired of fighting Scorpions in the KL but what does talking about this actually solve? Shitting on scrubby tactics and top tiers isn't going to help anyone get better at fighting them.
 

dribirut

BLAK FELOW
Royal Contributor
Right I get that, but the purpose of this thread is flawed since everyone can play like a scrub, the character isn't really at fault. Fighting games always have characters that are easier to play and some that require high execution because developers know that there are veterans that play their games, but also newcomers.

Either way, people who don't really want to learn the game properly will always find an easy way out of doing so. To me it seems the OP is just pissed at the top tiers, and I get it, I am sick and tired of fighting Scorpions in the KL but what does talking about this actually solve? Shitting on scrubby tactics and top tiers isn't going to help anyone get better at fighting them.
Jesus, this is a tongue in cheek thread just meant for us to have fun. The only reason you have a problem with this thread is because Cassie was listed. Please just stop posting in this thread if you don’t like the premise. You’ve made your point like 2 times on each thread.

And I had forgotten to comment back to your friend about the money match. I can do Sunday night. But honestly I’d prefer to play you and just use low shots and beat you with your own character haha
 

Wigy

There it is...
Right I get that, but the purpose of this thread is flawed since everyone can play like a scrub, the character isn't really at fault. Fighting games always have characters that are easier to play and some that require high execution because developers know that there are veterans that play their games, but also newcomers.

Either way, people who don't really want to learn the game properly will always find an easy way out of doing so. To me it seems the OP is just pissed at the top tiers, and I get it, I am sick and tired of fighting Scorpions in the KL but what does talking about this actually solve? Shitting on scrubby tactics and top tiers isn't going to help anyone get better at fighting them.
Certain characters really cater to scrubby play.

It's just a daft thread. Why you haf to be maad.
 

Professor Oak

Are you a boy or girl?
Jesus, this is a tongue in cheek thread just meant for us to have fun. The only reason you have a problem with this thread is because Cassie was listed. Please just stop posting in this thread if you don’t like the premise. You’ve made your point like 2 times on each thread.

And I had forgotten to comment back to your friend about the money match. I can do Sunday night. But honestly I’d prefer to play you and just use low shots and beat you with your own character haha
So this Sunday? Good deal. What time?
 

Vslayer

Curses in moose
Moderator
Premium Supporter
Jesus, this is a tongue in cheek thread just meant for us to have fun. The only reason you have a problem with this thread is because Cassie was listed. Please just stop posting in this thread if you don’t like the premise. You’ve made your point like 2 times on each thread.

And I had forgotten to comment back to your friend about the money match. I can do Sunday night. But honestly I’d prefer to play you and just use low shots and beat you with your own character haha
The only reason you created this thread is cause of top tier salt, you can't fool me.

I play Kano now so joke's on you, or me I guess, since he's bottom AF.
 

Ray'sGoodLiquor

Tournament Viable Killing Machine
why do you think that?
He's got a solid tool set without much required for execution. All of his strings are safe. He has 50/50s. He has easy 30%+ combos. His jump ins are some of the best in the game. He's got decent walk speed with phenomenal buttons in the neutral. Decent wake ups, frame traps, air projectiles, multiple combo extenders, solid unbreakable damage, the best fatal blow in the game, great krushing blows, 3 combos starting mids under 15 frames, etc.

The only thing he's missing is a good anti-air.

You CAN play a high execution and technical Kabal, but you don't have to if you don't have the skill.

Edit: And how could I forget cancels?

Edit 2:
Being slept on =|= scrubby.

That would be like saying D'Vorah was slept on in MKX, making her scrubby because she wasn't used often. I think there is a vast difference in difficulty of usage or gameplan with Kabal, comparatively to Geras/Scorpion/Erron. But I am curious to what you'd define as scrubby traits for Kabal.
Read the above. I agree that being slept on doesn't make something scrubby, just that Kabal is scrubby AND being slept on for some reason. You could easily get wins off the average casual only using his strings and projectiles.
 
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Blewdew

PSN: MaxKayX3
He's got a solid tool set without much required for execution. All of his strings are safe. He has 50/50s. He has easy 30%+ combos. His jump ins are some of the best in the game. He's got decent walk speed with phenomenal buttons in the neutral. Decent wake ups, frame traps, air projectiles, multiple combo extenders, solid unbreakable damage, the best fatal blow in the game, great krushing blows, 3 combos starting mids under 15 frames, etc.

The only thing he's missing is a good anti-air.

You CAN play a high execution and technical Kabal, but you don't have to if you don't have the skill.

Edit: And how could I forget cancels?

Edit 2:


Read the above. I agree that being slept on doesn't make something scrubby, just that Kabal is scrubby AND being slept on for some reason. You could easily get wins off the average casual only using his strings and projectiles.
I mean yeah he has all that (beside the 50/50 he only has that in clean cut and it's a shitty one too and only 2 mids under 15f) but what's exactly scrubby about having good tools? also easy execution doesn't necessarely means a character is scrubby with that logic 95% of the cast would be scrubby because there is almost no hard execution character in this game.
scrubby imo means you can pick up a character in a few minutes, don't need to have any fundamental knowledge or general thought and still cheese wins out of objectivly better players. characters like geras, scorpion, erron etc can do that with not only good but silly tools.
kabal really doesn't fit this description. he's good yes, really good. but I don't see this character work out this way when you don't have at least some sort of fundamental knowledge.
sure you can get casuals players in the corner and b1 bully them or just zone them all game long but that's not the character being scrubby but your opponent not knowing anything about the matchup. you can do things like that with literally any character.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
He's got a solid tool set without much required for execution. All of his strings are safe. He has 50/50s. He has easy 30%+ combos. His jump ins are some of the best in the game. He's got decent walk speed with phenomenal buttons in the neutral. Decent wake ups, frame traps, air projectiles, multiple combo extenders, solid unbreakable damage, the best fatal blow in the game, great krushing blows, 3 combos starting mids under 15 frames, etc.

The only thing he's missing is a good anti-air.

You CAN play a high execution and technical Kabal, but you don't have to if you don't have the skill.

Edit: And how could I forget cancels?

Edit 2:
I don't agree that Kabal has easy execution at all (one of the harder ones actually for optimal play in this game, comparatively to Scorpion where you master his optimal play in a literal 10 minutes), or the best Fatal Blow (Erron takes that cake free, though Kabal's is really good). If you don't play a "high execution and technical Kabal", you cannot maximize his toolset or damage and his elite level is about mid-ish level. Yea that's not trash or bad, but again, to play him at his peak you have to play him at a level that not someone who "picked him up two days ago" is playing.

The same can't be said for Scorpion/Erron/Geras/Liu Kang types of characters, where I literally can play them this weekend and maximize their potential by Sunday afternoon. No one is winning against decent competition with a two day old Kabal. No one has a "pocket Kabal" for this reason as well. Yet anyone can have a pocket Scorpion or pocket Geras, or pocket Erron.

Read the above. I agree that being slept on doesn't make something scrubby, just that Kabal is scrubby AND being slept on for some reason. You could easily get wins off the average casual only using his strings and projectiles.
I think Kabal is slept on. Probably more than you do. I think he is arguably a top 3 character in the entire game. He is one of only four characters I believe you can solo and win against the whole roster. But your "being slept on for some reason" is easily answered. It's because he is not scrubby. Since he requires more time, practice, and energy to master, people are skipping that for "scrubby" top tier characters that are equally good.
 

Ray'sGoodLiquor

Tournament Viable Killing Machine
I don't agree that Kabal has easy execution at all (one of the harder ones actually for optimal play in this game, comparatively to Scorpion where you master his optimal play in a literal 10 minutes), or the best Fatal Blow (Erron takes that cake free, though Kabal's is really good). If you don't play a "high execution and technical Kabal", you cannot maximize his toolset or damage and his elite level is about mid-ish level. Yea that's not trash or bad, but again, to play him at his peak you have to play him at a level that not someone who "picked him up two days ago" is playing.

The same can't be said for Scorpion/Erron/Geras/Liu Kang types of characters, where I literally can play them this weekend and maximize their potential by Sunday afternoon. No one is winning against decent competition with a two day old Kabal. No one has a "pocket Kabal" for this reason as well. Yet anyone can have a pocket Scorpion or pocket Geras, or pocket Erron.



I think Kabal is slept on. Probably more than you do. I think he is arguably a top 3 character in the entire game. He is one of only four characters I believe you can solo and win against the whole roster. But your "being slept on for some reason" is easily answered. It's because he is not scrubby. Since he requires more time, practice, and energy to master, people are skipping that for "scrubby" top tier characters that are equally good.
I totally disagree. If you're having trouble with his execution then your controller might be broken. The only thing tough about him is an unusually small amplify window for his projectile. String xx special, string xx special isn't hard. Is there some tool he has that I'm overlooking that isn't simple as hell? His playstyle is to whiff punish, convert off krushing blows, and remembering to block when it's not your turn. I'll agree that Geras is scrubbier than Kabal, but I don't think scorpion is. You're probably just getting teleported on constantly by waves of bad scorpions. If you recall, every MK game has a shit ton of year 1 scorpions. MK9, Injustice, and MKX were packed with scorpions at launch because 111, teleport. There is a considerably gap between high and low level scorpions that come down to skill, reactions, reads, etc. vs Kabal where most of your game is backdash into a B1. You can't "maximize someone's toolset" as a scrub player. You just can't. The entry level into this game is low, but not that low.

I mean yeah he has all that (beside the 50/50 he only has that in clean cut and it's a shitty one too and only 2 mids under 15f) but what's exactly scrubby about having good tools? also easy execution doesn't necessarely means a character is scrubby with that logic 95% of the cast would be scrubby because there is almost no hard execution character in this game.
scrubby imo means you can pick up a character in a few minutes, don't need to have any fundamental knowledge or general thought and still cheese wins out of objectivly better players. characters like geras, scorpion, erron etc can do that with not only good but silly tools.
kabal really doesn't fit this description. he's good yes, really good. but I don't see this character work out this way when you don't have at least some sort of fundamental knowledge.
sure you can get casuals players in the corner and b1 bully them or just zone them all game long but that's not the character being scrubby but your opponent not knowing anything about the matchup. you can do things like that with literally any character.
You say he doesn't have a 50/50, then he only has a 50/50 in one of his variations and it's not good. He has 50/50s, and just because they don't lead into combo doesn't make them bad. F224 is unpunishable, and I've only had F22 low hook punished like twice because you always condition them to block the safe option, and only go unsafe when you feel you have to. He also has a 25/25/25/25 after using 22 as an ender for a standing combo. The animation for f22 lasts long enough where you can literally watch the person block and decide weather to finish with 4 or low hook. If you're not sure, throw out regular hook grab.

I know the difference in good, underused, and scrubby. If scrubby just means the character that kids flock to at release, it will always and forever be scorpion, even if he's the most execution heavy character in the game, which he'll never be because NRS knows kids want to play scorpion. Being a beginner friendly character doesn't automatically make you scrubby. Anytime scorpion teleports outside of a combo or projectile punish, you should be getting a free combo from it. Scorpion stops being a problem fairly early when casuals quit and the only people left know how to block and punish a delayed amplify.
 
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Blade4693

VIVIVI
What is the definition of "playing scrubby" ?

Just curious, but I have a feeling it might apply to me even if its unintentional lol