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Scorpion Variation Usage Chart

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
15263

So this is my opinion on using Scorpion as a complete total main. I'm kinda curious what other full on Scorpion mains do so here's the tier maker chart I used. The "use X" sections do not denote winning or losing MU's, it just means that MU is best played with that variation IMO.

 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
From Cetrion's perspective (Spring Cleaning), why is she under "doesn't matter"? Reborn is significantly harder to face than SR.

He doesn't have a damage problem in the MU either way, and she can punish any of the SR moves at any time, block or whiff, at any point, for full combo.

Reborn meanwhile can get the life lead and you're at his Mercy because of the teleport + cancel pressure options + runaway cancel, forcing her into much more high risk/low reward situations to regain the lead. If you're using cancels and break less often it is much less of a factor in this MU than say Baraka, because her combo damage output outside of KB is weak.


I'm intrigued why you don't feel Reborn has a distinct advantage in this MU.
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
From Cetrion's perspective (Spring Cleaning), why is she under "doesn't matter"? Reborn is significantly harder to face than SR.

He doesn't have a damage problem in the MU either way, and she can punish any of the SR moves at any time, block or whiff, at any point, for full combo.

Reborn meanwhile can get the life lead and you're at his Mercy because of the teleport + cancel pressure options + runaway cancel, forcing her into much more high risk/low reward situations to regain the lead. If you're using cancels and break less often it is much less of a factor in this MU than say Baraka, because her combo damage output outside of KB is weak.


I'm intrigued why you don't feel Reborn has a distinct advantage in this MU.
So, I play like, Koisy, Alexander The 1, mostly as reference right? Those two have two very different Cetrion's. Koisy is really rushdown oriented and Alexander plays hyper turtly, barely rock walls and never IA beams unless you jump. Against aggressive Cetrion's who really like the stagger game, Searing Rage is flat out better because of damage output especially with buff, setplay, best EX rock wall punish in the game with f32 and oppressive mix. Reborn I use against players who I know play super defensively and want to maintain that full/half screen zone and keep you out. It's a player consideration basically. Aggressive/proactive Cetrion's also look to jab you out of raw teleport cancels. You literally can't tele cancel in on Koisy, you get smacked almost every time.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
So, I play like, Koisy, Alexander The 1, mostly as reference right? Those two have two very different Cetrion's. Koisy is really rushdown oriented and Alexander plays hyper turtly, barely rock walls and never IA beams unless you jump. Against aggressive Cetrion's who really like the stagger game, Searing Rage is flat out better because of damage output especially with buff, setplay, best EX rock wall punish in the game with f32 and oppressive mix. Reborn I use against players who I know play super defensively and want to maintain that full/half screen zone and keep you out. It's a player consideration basically. Aggressive/proactive Cetrion's also look to jab you out of raw teleport cancels. You literally can't tele cancel in on Koisy, you get smacked almost every time.
Ah I see. Makes a lot of sense. I play ultra defensive, so I find the SR MU about even imo, but the Reborn MU pretty ugly. Thanks for the clarification.
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
Ah I see. Makes a lot of sense. I play ultra defensive, so I find the SR MU about even imo, but the Reborn MU pretty ugly. Thanks for the clarification.
Yeah against defensive players Reborn can just initiate throw loops from full screen usually.
 

Vslayer

I'm a gril
Moderator
Premium Supporter
I think that's pretty much right for Kano. Most of his stuff on block is unsafe, so punishing with the chain will hurt him a lot and it's not like he has the range to punish it consistently.
 

Wrenchfarm

Lexcorp Proprietary Technologies
I think that's pretty much right for Kano. Most of his stuff on block is unsafe, so punishing with the chain will hurt him a lot and it's not like he has the range to punish it consistently.
I would have thought he could Kano ball it! Learn something every day. Wonder who else can't punish it.

Jade can shadowkick every blocked chain which is better than nothing, but I swear with the buff on Scopion does almost as much chip as the punish
 

Vslayer

I'm a gril
Moderator
Premium Supporter
I would have thought he could Kano ball it! Learn something every day. Wonder who else can't punish it.

Jade can shadowkick every blocked chain which is better than nothing, but I swear with the buff on Scopion does almost as much chip as the punish
Yeah, he could Kano ball it I think depending on the recovery for Scorpion's chain attack, since Kano ball is 10 frames startup. Other than that maybe his B3?
 
you definitely should be using reborn against scarlet with her multitude of zoning options. I'm exclusively a searing rage main now so it's whatever
 
I would have thought he could Kano ball it! Learn something every day. Wonder who else can't punish it.

Jade can shadowkick every blocked chain which is better than nothing, but I swear with the buff on Scopion does almost as much chip as the punish
Kano punishes Death Spin from all ranges with Kano ball.
Only real reason I could see of picking SR against him is that you can punish his mid hitting forward roll with Death Spin while Reborn only gets a d1.

I also don't see how Reborn doesn't have a considerably better matchup against Geras as Reborn.

Vs. Jacqui and Jax I'd also rather have Reborn. d1xxdb3f can get you out of her grill. I really don't like fucking around trying to outpoke 9f mid characters up close.
 

DrFolmer

AKA Uncle Kano
Use Searing Rage against Johnny? That's surprising. I've always struggled with Reborn way more than SR since damn near all of SR's stuff can be punished pretty easily by Johnny. Unless I'm missing something.
I guess it's about him being able to punish us harder for mistakes than the other way around - he cant really do that in Reborn. And from a matchup perspective, Reborn is not more of a struggle for Johnny than it is for the rest of the cast, so I guess it's simply the damage perspective here. A good Scorpion can still react to forceballs at longer distances with regular teleport, thus shutting down the projectile game somewhat
 
I think SR is not equal with death spin in neutral and the viability depends on how punishable it is.

I think in general Reborn is stronger in any match up as cancel gives good extra opportunities even without tele cancel mixup.
But SR has his little extras too. Big ice on the cake is if you can use DS in neutral without big punish but I think relying or building strategy to DS is not the good way (I use it mainly for BS setup, chip, meterless damage / good damage with BS).

I dunno Kano punish stuff I will lab it. :)
DS can give pretty good damage especially with BS.
 
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Kano punishes Death Spin from all ranges with Kano ball.
Only real reason I could see of picking SR against him is that you can punish his mid hitting forward roll with Death Spin while Reborn only gets a d1.

I also don't see how Reborn doesn't have a considerably better matchup against Geras as Reborn.

Vs. Jacqui and Jax I'd also rather have Reborn. d1xxdb3f can get you out of her grill. I really don't like fucking around trying to outpoke 9f mid characters up close.
I checked the move it is -13 (up close) you get guaranteed throw after that.
Which is I think as good (or not better) than DS. DS is easier to input though. :)
 

NothingPersonal

Are you not entertained!?
Another bad post from Cherny as always. Shao can full combo punish spear spin and sper from full shoulder charge range and spear buff on reaction with lunge. You should deffinitely use Reborn against him. I say use Reborn regardless. It's the better variation imo.
 
I checked the move it is -13 (up close) you get guaranteed throw after that.
Which is I think as good (or not better) than DS. DS is easier to input though. :)
That move recovers crouching though, can you still grab it? Now that I think about it when throws hit recovery frames they become true mids so probably yes.
 
That move recovers crouching though, can you still grab it? Now that I think about it when throws hit recovery frames they become true mids so probably yes.
Yes you are right. Throw is true MID in that situation. Use it. :)
You can whiff punish Kano's F3 with B1 too but that's situational.
 

LarSanity

My sword thanks you
Searing rage against Johnny eh only time ive had issues with that variation is playing some one in another country with over 380 ping
 
Searing rage against Johnny eh only time ive had issues with that variation is playing some one in another country with over 380 ping
What is the major difference between SR and Reborn for Johnny?
It sounded like SR is free compared to Reborn...

Tbh I had no issue with Johnny yet but I have not played too many similar (= MID) level Johnny players. :)
Match up did not look up hill battle for Scorpion.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Reborn is almost always a very clear better choice. Only a few characters I would say Searing Rage might slightly be better. And that’s vs Characters like Kotal and Sonya who can’t punish a properly spaced out df4 (death spin). Not being able to punish a blocked death spin is huge considering how much space it covers and how much chip it does. Although to be clear, just because they can’t punish it doesn’t mean you can do death spin into death spin. You’re still very negative and it’s 100% their turn.

Also. I totally agree that Liu Kang is great vs Scorpion.
 

LarSanity

My sword thanks you
What is the major difference between SR and Reborn for Johnny?
It sounded like SR is free compared to Reborn...

Tbh I had no issue with Johnny yet but I have not played too many similar (= MID) level Johnny players. :)
Match up did not look up hill battle for Scorpion.
The teleport cancel just makes scorpion safe, as johnny has alot of slower starting strings.
Searing rage just allows johnny to get his highest damaging punishes, but it is by no means a uphill battle