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Strategy Rush Down Sub Zero vs Sektor

GNG Iniquity

#bufftaquito #punchwalk #whiffycage
It's not a good MU for Sektor, it never has been. Rushdown Subs are just new and I have no idea why more people don't play him this way. Sub is a fucking dick when he gets you in the corner, he gets so much meter off those blocked d4s and gets to bottle up that meter to punish you on reaction with an armored slide or an EX iceblast to trade with your projectile and put you in another JIP B121 22 ice blast/throw mixup. Quit hiding behind the clones and trying to land an ice blast, Sub sucks doing that.

In my experience, it's a pretty shitty MU for Quan too. If Quan and Sek had an actual armored means of getting out of this, it wouldn't be so bad, but not having armor at this stage in the game sucks. (Yes, Quan technically has 'armor' on skydrop but it's just as punishable on block/landing and should be expected if he's in a pinch.)

I don't get why Sektor's EX flamethrower isn't armored, it'd help him out tremendously. SZ couldn't bully him in the corner for free, that's for sure.
 

Wemfs

The only morality in a cruel world is chance.
Doesn't look like a 5-5 at all. Definitely looks like Sub has the advantage.
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
footsie maybe? not a single time did you f2 after he walked in front of a clone. He disrespected that zone that you can control. I don't really think this matchup is in Sektor's favor, but f2 on block is 0 and on hit is plus frames. That should be your pressure tool to keep Sub Zero at mid screen rather than you backing up constantly and trying to use flamethrower all day. Make him respect that move, then he'll jump into flamethrower.

Just like Sektor's jab being ducked, Sub Zero's 2 can be ducked by Sektor everywhere on the screen. You never took advantage of that either.

I've never thought this was anything more than a 5-5. Whoever controls there space wins.
 

SwiftTomHanks

missiles are coming
footsie maybe? not a single time did you f2 after he walked in front of a clone. He disrespected that zone that you can control. I don't really think this matchup is in Sektor's favor, but f2 on block is 0 and on hit is plus frames. That should be your pressure tool to keep Sub Zero at mid screen rather than you backing up constantly and trying to use flamethrower all day. Make him respect that move, then he'll jump into flamethrower.

Just like Sektor's jab being ducked, Sub Zero's 2 can be ducked by Sektor everywhere on the screen. You never took advantage of that either.

I've never thought this was anything more than a 5-5. Whoever controls there space wins.
Sub's 2 can be ducked, but the next hit can not. So poking him or uppercutting him is extremely harsh. Sektor's 1 and 12 BOTH whiff so Sub can take full advantage of this. Also in the corner it's impossible to do a f2 - you go into the ice clone. If you watch the matches, while I'm in mid screen, I'm destroying him. At some point in time I'll get push to the corner and then it's strait up game over.

F2 ending on 0 really means nothing. His 6 frame jab can be poked out of and there is no reason for sub to not d1 after the f2. Sure I can link f2 into flame, but the moment he sees me not do flame... d1 time and I can't do shit.
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
f2 ending in zero means a lot. The one time you did it... it allowed you to cross him up and apply pressure. Same with b1. I think it has more range? I don't know that is where I need you really.

To me you seemed scared to throw down. You can duck a 2 and at least d3 or d1. There are things Sektor can do to at the very least slow down Subs attempts to get in. I'm sure Death will tell you he had no fear at coming in to d4.

I think the match is over when he gets you in the corner. But most of Subs matches are like that. He bullies 90% of the cast in that zone.
 

Death

Noob
Sub is a great character IMO. I just think he loses horribly to characters that can outzone him. Alot of characters have options to get out the corner. Any character who has an armor move can get out technically but some armor moves are unsafe rather than other armored moves. In sektors case, he has zero armored moves so it really is game over unless sektor does something really risky. But I'm always baiting a risky move..I think mid screen Sektor wins this 6-4 and in the corner its an 8-2 or even a 9-1. I do think its a 6/4 or 7/3 MU for sub total.
 

Gilbagz

Joker here~
I'm just thinking, in the corner. If you ex tele and he blocks. Do you end up on the outside or inside?

Also if the 4 from the b+3, 4 is always whiffing and he's always going to d+4. Can't your cross over? Or block the d+4, and poke back?
I realise its not much, but this is sorta like the sub mileena match up. Sub can't 2,1 pressure at all cuz the first 2 whiffs. So it comes down just punishing mistakes and d+4'ing like mad, and on hit moving into pressure.

I got no idea if any of this works, but just a thought lol.

Also doesnt f+2 have an ender like b+1 or something. Or is that punishable?
 

Truth

Noob
I'm just thinking, in the corner. If you ex tele and he blocks. Do you end up on the outside or inside?

Also if the 4 from the b+3, 4 is always whiffing and he's always going to d+4. Can't your cross over? Or block the d+4, and poke back?
I realise its not much, but this is sorta like the sub mileena match up. Sub can't 2,1 pressure at all cuz the first 2 whiffs. So it comes down just punishing mistakes and d+4'ing like mad, and on hit moving into pressure.

I got no idea if any of this works, but just a thought lol.

Also doesnt f+2 have an ender like b+1 or something. Or is that punishable?
If any string whiffs when you crouch block, you will always be given a chance to poke out or even uppercut. One more thing, if you manage to trade with Mileena, you can still hit her with B121 off the freeze, then start 21. The 2 will hit in this case, but if you want to continue pressure, then you must hit her with either a D3, or D4 to get frame advantage otherwise she will just poke away with D4. Also if you manage to block Mileena's D4, you can poke her back with D4 since Mileena's D4 is even on block, and SZ's D4 is 4 frames faster (8 frames vs. 12).
 

Gilbagz

Joker here~
If any string whiffs when you crouch block, you will always be given a chance to poke out or even uppercut. One more thing, if you manage to trade with Mileena, you can still hit her with B121 off the freeze, then start 21. The 2 will hit in this case, but if you want to continue pressure, then you must hit her with either a D3, or D4 to get frame advantage otherwise she will just poke away with D4. Also if you manage to block Mileena's D4, you can poke her back with D4 since Mileena's D4 is even on block, and SZ's D4 is 4 frames faster (8 frames vs. 12).
The thing though is your not going to let it whiff lol
Cut the string at b+3 and then cross over
you can still get poked out i think, but if they mistime they are going to eat the jip
and also subbies uppercut aint the greatest lol
but yeah, it was just a thought. Would probably lose out to the poke in most cases.

And yeah i get the mileena match up now. Forget throwing clones out unless she starts coming forward. Only ice from mid screen. And always use b+1, 2 , 1 so you can come in and pressure. If you do have to knock her down, dash in and d+3, should be able to block the wake up and punish (not to sure about this). If nothing comes, just d+4 until it hits, then 2, 1 pressure lol. Match as a whole ends up as just trading d+4's over and over again lol.
 

Truth

Noob
The thing though is your not going to let it whiff lol
Cut the string at b+3 and then cross over
you can still get poked out i think, but if they mistime they are going to eat the jip
and also subbies uppercut aint the greatest lol
but yeah, it was just a thought. Would probably lose out to the poke in most cases.
Here's the thing B3 is only neutral frames on block, meaning that say if the SZ player reads the crossover attempt he could do 22, D4, NJP, etc. The best option in this case is D4 (speaking as the SZ player) because SZ's hitbox lowers when he does D4, whiffing any JIP (jump-in-punch) attempts; there is also the possibility of D4 knocking Sektor out of the air even before he jumps. Any Sektor players correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't B3 one of the few hit-confirmable teleport strings Sektor has?
 

Gilbagz

Joker here~
Here's the thing B3 is only neutral frames on block, meaning that say if the SZ player reads the crossover attempt he could do 22, D4, NJP, etc. The best option in this case is D4 (speaking as the SZ player) because SZ's hitbox lowers when he does D4, whiffing any JIP (jump-in-punch) attempts; there is also the possibility of D4 knocking Sektor out of the air even before he jumps. Any Sektor players correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't B3 one of the few hit-confirmable teleport strings Sektor has?
Yeah your right, like I said it was just a thought. Sorry.
But if you know the Sub is going to d+4, what would be the proper reaction? Just block and d+4/d+3 back?
 

Truth

Noob
Yeah your right, like I said it was just a thought. Sorry.
But if you know the Sub is going to d+4, what would be the proper reaction? Just block and d+4/d+3 back?
Nothing to be sorry about, I am just explaining it from a perspective of a SZ player who had one too many people try to cross me up lol. Its always good to conversate on the SZ forums, especially considering there's hardly any discussion anymore :(. But to answer your question, you simply have to block the D4, and try to play the footsie game. I am not sure what Sektor has for footsies though, so I can't really comment on that. However, playing footsies with SZ could also lead to another mindgame because he can cancel his pokes into clones (D3~Clone, D4~Clone, etc).
 
Seriously though, no more trolling brady. But anyways, I tested sektor strings, and most of his strings can be ducked from first hit, if not then its 2nd hit (just tested on reptile only). Wonder if this will make him a bad character in the future?
 

Truth

Noob
Seriously though, no more trolling brady. But anyways, I tested sektor strings, and most of his strings can be ducked from first hit, if not then its 2nd hit (just tested on reptile only). Wonder if this will make him a bad character in the future?
Sektor players have always known about his weakness, particularly about how most of his strings start with true highs. It's just something that people don't tend to poke out of for some reason, I guess it's the evolution of the game.
 

Gilbagz

Joker here~
Nothing to be sorry about, I am just explaining it from a perspective of a SZ player who had one too many people try to cross me up lol. Its always good to conversate on the SZ forums, especially considering there's hardly any discussion anymore :(. But to answer your question, you simply have to block the D4, and try to play the footsie game. I am not sure what Sektor has for footsies though, so I can't really comment on that. However, playing footsies with SZ could also lead to another mindgame because he can cancel his pokes into clones (D3~Clone, D4~Clone, etc).
Lol i play sub too. But i've been crossed over so many times, i always eat the jip after i whiff the d+4. Only cross up defence i got is njp and jump back kick. 2,2 seems too shoddy cuz sub turns around so damn slow. (Off topic, but what wins? A njp or a sharp jump kick. Cuz against smoke i always lose to that dam jump kick teleport even when i read it and try njp him out).

I thought sektor could footsies with flamethrower lol. Its hard to punish (well in my experience. but i only play online so i can't really talk. DAMN AUSTRALIA WHY DO THEY HAVE TO BAN THE GAME FOR. NO OFFLINE COMP). And when using the human costume, you can't tell if its a missle or the flamethrower. You try jump the missle and you might eat a flamethrower in the face lol. You seen that match right? Tom eats like 4 flamethrowers in a row from swifttomhanks lol.
 
Sektor players have always known about his weakness, particularly about how most of his strings start with true highs. It's just something that people don't tend to poke out of for some reason, I guess it's the evolution of the game.
Ive never realized it because no one in Florida plays sektor, but I guess people overlook this because of his tools. They didnt not test out his strings at all (i used to be one of them haha)
 

Truth

Noob
Lol i play sub too. But i've been crossed over so many times, i always eat the jip after i whiff the d+4. Only cross up defence i got is njp and jump back kick. 2,2 seems too shoddy cuz sub turns around so damn slow. (Off topic, but what wins? A njp or a sharp jump kick. Cuz against smoke i always lose to that dam jump kick teleport even when i read it and try njp him out).

I thought sektor could footsies with flamethrower lol. Its hard to punish (well in my experience. but i only play online so i can't really talk. DAMN AUSTRALIA WHY DO THEY HAVE TO BAN THE GAME FOR. NO OFFLINE COMP). And when using the human costume, you can't tell if its a missle or the flamethrower. You try jump the missle and you might eat a flamethrower in the face lol. You seen that match right? Tom eats like 4 flamethrowers in a row from swifttomhanks lol.
The jump kick will always beat out your D4, so against characters that have air throws, you really have to be careful when you throw D4 out. If I had to choose between a NJP and a jump back kick, it would definitely be jump back kick, because if you whiff your NJP you could potentially get AA comboed. Another thing, according to frame data, flamethrower is -18 on block, so you could potentially full combo punish him if you dash and 22 (since SZ's 2 is 9 frames, meaning you have 9 frames to punish Sektor 18-9=9). However, I don't know if 9 frames is enough time to punish the flamethrower with a full combo when its spaced out like that. But, one thing is for certain, you could always use slide to punish a blocked flamethrower, but if you manage to make a read, you could potentially shoot an ice ball to trade with the flamethrower.
 

PND_Mustard

"More stealthful than the night"
Premium Supporter
this is why ending everything you can on hit with an upmissile is a good idea, you essentially end every offensive burst with some form of advantage, and depending on where they think you fired the missile (on them in frotn of them or behind them) you're usually guaranteed a jip on block from the UM, which if course jails them into a standing block.

and at worst they jump back and avoid the missile, but fullscreen is where you WANT them to be,
 

Gilbagz

Joker here~
The jump kick will always beat out your D4, so against characters that have air throws, you really have to be careful when you throw D4 out. If I had to choose between a NJP and a jump back kick, it would definitely be jump back kick, because if you whiff your NJP you could potentially get AA comboed. Another thing, according to frame data, flamethrower is -18 on block, so you could potentially full combo punish him if you dash and 22 (since SZ's 2 is 9 frames, meaning you have 9 frames to punish Sektor 18-9=9). However, I don't know if 9 frames is enough time to punish the flamethrower with a full combo when its spaced out like that. But, one thing is for certain, you could always use slide to punish a blocked flamethrower, but if you manage to make a read, you could potentially shoot an ice ball to trade with the flamethrower.
lol no i worded it wrong
after smoke does 3, d+1, 2 or 3,2. And i read hes going to try jump kick teleport, what wins. His jump kick or my njp lol. I realise now i can just uppercut or d+4/d+1 lol. But yeah what wins the njp or jumpkick teleport.
 

SwiftTomHanks

missiles are coming
Sektor is slowly falling into the non-tournament viable tier. I refuse to play casuals with anyone outside my close group of training partners so they do not learn the match up. The only reason I've had the success I have had is because people either don't know or think it's risky to punish Sektor's strings. The fact is, he has no string that is safe expect b21. Some strings are either punishable on block or punishable due to whiffing. Sektor no longer has an overhead either... get ready for this bullshit everyone...

When you block a jip you can go into leg lift stance and do his overhead. However since they reduced the stun from a blocked jip you can poke him out of his leg lift stance EVERY TIME and never have to guess if he is going to go high or low. This makes the leg lift stance 100% useless once people know this.

Sektor is a very, if not the most limited character in the game. If it wasn't for his good zoning and anti zoning abilities he would be absolute garbage. With that said, the talk of Sub Zero being worse than Sektor is just crazy! I honestly thought about jumping up on the tier by picking up Sub Zero lol. I posted this video in the Sektor forums as well to see some Sektor player's insight but the Sektor forums are rather stale as of late - I doubt I'll get a helpful response.

Oh, when sub does a d4, the push back is so much that Sektor can not d1 nor d4 him. If he goes in for another d4 after a blocked d4, d1 will then hit. If he stay back, there is nothing I can do... and pressuring Sub Zero is going to get me blown up.

Lastly, someone mentioned doing a EXTU just to get out of the corner. The issue here is that since it's negative on block it's pretty much a free throw. Death would just throw me back into the corner until I started to try and jump away from this throw in which he would start to combo me. While EXTU is "safe", it's pretty much not. If you Sub Zero players fight a Sektor, when he EXTU's, just throw him afterwords.

Thanks for the activity in the threat though guys, it's great to see that at least Sub's forum isn't a wasteland.
 
Why didn't he jump over and jip everytime u d4? I mean there was no ice clone, he should've jumped instead of stayin their and takin all the chip!