Yeah, but then the characters who need a forward input after the run would basically be doing what they need to do now. Its just 1 less forward input, so if they have trouble with the current way I don't think that will help them much. Its greatest pro(or con depending on your pic) is making fb run cancel combos so much easier, but I like the execution requirements they have(which aren't THAT high for most of them). Plus most of the fb cancel combos get very easy very fast, easier than some regular run combos imo.If it were implemented properly, holding the run button would make you run, but wouldn't necessarily count as a "forward" input for doing moves, etc.
The run button would enter f,f block into the input stream. So you would get the dash start up cancelled into run like you do now. No direction will be held. Even when you run now you do not need to hold the forward button.Actually, what would a run button even do to significantly help people that can't do/struggle with run combos? If the run button holds the forward, then you run into all kinds of problems with the button being pretty uselss for a lot of things. If it doesn't, then the people with forward+normal inputs would have to do pretty much what they're doing now. Most characters have a mix of direction/no direction+normal for lots of combos right after the run, so I don't know how helpful it would really be overall.
Yeah, but my point was those who have the shortcut of holding forward for their combos would almost be doing exactly what they're doing now anyway. A lot of combos are like that. It might be worth it to implement the button, but there's also a good amount of characters that require a mix of no forward+normal input and forward+normal input run combos. In the end I don't think it would help that much.The run button would enter f,f block into the input stream. So you would get the dash start up cancelled into run like you do now. No direction will be held. Even when you run now you do not need to hold the forward button.
Someone put in the practice of being able to open up the opponent for the combo, why isn't that practice enough? Why isn't it enough they made the correct read, the correct whiff punish, or properly managed their resources?... Why is it bad life is being made easier for the person who successfully opened up the opponent for the combo, but it's NOT bad that life is being made easier for the person who allowed themselves to be opened up, because hard controls cut their punishment short??Run cancels take a lot of practice, if you weren't willing to put in that practice you don't deserve life to be made any easier for you imo.
I strongly believe that any sort of PvP game should be maximally about fighting opponent and minimally about fighting what devs included into the game - like interface decisions. If something is hard, then it should be hard because you opponent makes it so, not game designer.
Wait... since when does having a macro for something available that can be optionally matched to the controls mean that the original controls are replaced??When stance-specific combos start coming out, you're gonna wish you hadn't gotten rid of the stance switch button.
Well, fighting games are also about execution. A lot of us greatly enjoy doing executionally difficult things that others can't do, like viper players that have all her technically challenging stuff down in sf. That person that opened someone up did a good job yes, but now he has to finish the job. Also, why are you only targeting run combos? That seems quite arbitrary given your argument. Why not make it so you only have to press 1 or 2 buttons to get a full combo punish after making a great read? I'll tell you why not. It's because execution requirements(implying consistency here as well) give the game depth, it gives the players something to constantly work on and improve that is easily noticeable, it's one of the unique appeals of fighting games, it's something that helps separate good players from average players, it's an element of character uniqueness, and more I'm surely forgetting at the moment. On a casual level that doesn't mean much, but on a competitive level it means a lot. Note that the execution requirements vary from character to character, which is done so that everyone (hopefully)has a character that is within their range on a competitive level.Someone put in the practice of being able to open up the opponent for the combo, why isn't that practice enough? Why isn't it enough they made the correct read, the correct whiff punish, or properly managed their resources?... Why is it bad life is being made easier for the person who successfully opened up the opponent for the combo, but it's NOT bad that life is being made easier for the person who allowed themselves to be opened up, because hard controls cut their punishment short??
But on top of that the arbitrary requirement must be added of controls being more difficult than they need to be?
People say "easy controls" are scrubby. I say, being able to throw out an unsafe highly punishable move with less risk, because there's a high chance the opponent will drop their characters' relatively more difficult combos is MUCH more scrubby.
Fighting games are about fighting your opponent, not fighting your controller.
I think this best sums it up:
There is literally NOTHING wrong with making run easier. I don't see why improving controls hinders a game, there are PLENTY of other things to practice/improve upon, unnecessary execution barriers shouldn't be one of them. Execution should only be as hard as it needs to be.I like the way it is. Level up.
This would be perfect. As much as it pains me to admit this, there may still be different hitboxes in different stances.Guys.
Forward + Stance Switch = Run
Back + Stance Switch = Backdash
Stance Switch = Stance Switch
I am a god.
Someone put in the practice of being able to open up the opponent for the combo, why isn't that practice enough? Why isn't it enough they made the correct read, the correct whiff punish, or properly managed their resources?... Why is it bad life is being made easier for the person who successfully opened up the opponent for the combo, but it's NOT bad that life is being made easier for the person who allowed themselves to be opened up, because hard controls cut their punishment short??
But on top of that the arbitrary requirement must be added of controls being more difficult than they need to be?
People say "easy controls" are scrubby. I say, being able to throw out an unsafe highly punishable move with less risk, because there's a high chance the opponent will drop their characters' relatively more difficult combos is MUCH more scrubby.
Fighting games are about fighting your opponent, not fighting your controller.
I think this best sums it up:
Why isn't it enough? Because FF~Block is just the way it is. There isn't a Run button.I strongly believe that any sort of PvP game should be maximally about fighting opponent and minimally about fighting what devs included into the game - like interface decisions. If something is hard, then it should be hard because you opponent makes it so, not game designer.
So why is the current run system an unnecessary execution barrier and not, say, basic strings?I myself don't have much of an issue with it being ff+ block but at the same time it would be MUCH more convenient if it was one button. I don't know if they are capable of implementing this with patches though.
There is literally NOTHING wrong with making run easier. I don't see why improving controls hinders a game, there are PLENTY of other things to practice/improve upon, unnecessary execution barriers shouldn't be one of them. Execution should only be as hard as it needs to be.
This would be perfect. As much as it pains me to admit this, there may still be different hitboxes in different stances.
Because the run system can be made to be more convenient by having a dedicated run button and strings like 112 are as simple as they can get lolSo why is the current run system an unnecessary execution barrier and not, say, basic strings?
I'm speaking cordially: It's another function to remember and one that works fundamentally counter productively. B,B is back dash, yes? F,F is forward dash. Block is a stationary state. I feel there's something wrong with making your stationary defensive button also act as a forward moving offensive command. When it comes to, let's say Soul Calibur games the parry is an active defense which still logically progresses from the defensive button.So why is the current run system an unnecessary execution barrier and not, say, basic strings?
Is that true though? They could just make one button do 112 xx special etc do a full damage combo. That's much more simple than having to hit a sequence of buttons just right.Because the run system can be made to be more convenient by having a dedicated run button and strings like 112 are as simple as they can get lol
I mean that makes sense, but ff+block=run is not something that can't be overcome after a couple minutes in the lab. Yes its counter intuitive, but the input itself is not something new to MK. Dash cancel combos in mk9 had the same exact input, just a different timing.I'm speaking cordially: It's another function to remember and one that works fundamentally counter productively. B,B is back dash, yes? F,F is forward dash. Block is a stationary state. I feel there's something wrong with making your stationary defensive button also act as a forward moving offensive command. When it comes to, let's say Soul Calibur games the parry is an active defense which still logically progresses from the defensive button.
They can not and will not do that because that limits your offensive options because a controller only has so many buttons. Assigning run to a button does not limit your options. What we are discussing here is that for pad players, throw, interactable and stance switch was made into a macro so that you only needed to press one button rather than fight your controller to hit 2 buttons (that may not be next to each other).Is that true though? They could just make one button do 112 xx special etc do a full damage combo. That's much more simple than having to hit a sequence of buttons just right.
I mean that makes sense, but ff+block=run is not something that can't be overcome after a couple minutes in the lab. Yes its counter intuitive, but the input itself is not something new to MK. Dash cancel combos in mk9 had the same exact input, just a different timing.
I'm not saying that's what they could or should do, it was to challenge his/their point. What makes running an unnessary executional requirement and not anything else?They can not and will not do that because that limits your offensive options because a controller only has so many buttons. Assigning run to a button does not limit your options. What we are discussing here is that for pad players, throw, interactable and stance switch was made into a macro so that you only needed to press one button rather than fight your controller to hit 2 buttons (that may not be next to each other).
What you are saying has been tried before (having specials mapped to buttons) in capcom games. These things were banned because they changed the way the game played, not because of execution but because it allowed you to do things that were not allowed in the game engine. For example walking forward sonic booms, etc.