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Robin General Discussion Thread

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
So, what's everyone doing with this character? Because I've got some day 1 impressions that are probably going to be less than popular. This dude is making me miss Dick Greyson a whole lot.

I'm going to start with the good.

- Ending a combo with 212 xx bird is great for jailing into pressure. Especially potent in the corner where ji2 crosses up and ji3 doesn't. Both of which combo into respectable damage.

- Midscreen db3 ender sets up some pretty dirty cross ups, each yielding about 51% for a bar, or slightly less into birderang oki.

- Antiair game is strong, especially with trait available (D2 xx blue (far), D2 xx blue recall, 12 xx assassin strike or similar combos).

- 123 is +1, that's cool I guess.


And now the bad...


- In theory his normals seem good, similar to ninjitsu Scorpion. But in practice... Their range is just awkward. Opponents can so easily close the distance on Robin by walking forward. No one is going to walk into a 13-14f mid no matter how much range it has. They're either going to back you to the corner or outclass Robin with faster normals in their own effective range.

- Paired with his own slow walk back speed and lack of a decent backdash, no one's getting caught by these things. They're too slow compared to similar advancing strings, and more often than not I get hit out of B2 as if there's not a sword in Robin's hands. He's lacking priority.

- His "strength" in neutral isn't really all that strong. Swampthing for example absolutely destroys Robin in the neutral with, plain and simple, better tools. The avatar of the green is making all Robin's moves look pretty brown.

- He has no threatening 50/50. We have an 11f sweep and an overhead that's what, 18 frames? In an NRS title, that sounds sub par but still useable, right?... But it's really not. Slow overheads could be compensated for in MKX with jump ins, making them block strings. That mechanic doesn't seem to exist in Injustice. Anyone mashing D1 pokes out or worse gets a poke to a full combo punish (6f pokes that lead to full combo #Paulo'sVision).

- "Db3 is a pretty good mix up tool though!" -No one ever. It's unsafe and opponents can literally walk/ jump out out of the MB version and punish. This thing would be pretty good since its a +15 restand and sets up an ambiguous cross up, but it's held back by the strings that it combo's off of. F2D1, B21, and D1D2, with the only mixup worth mentioning being F2D1. And calling in a mix up is pretty generous since swoop is so very reactable.

- He has trouble getting in since the arena is massive. "How's that possible, he has a teleport doesn't he?" He sure does, one that's only available once every 10 seconds or so, and only goes maybe a third of the screen max. Enjoy that trail of tears getting in on Firestorm with his 3f hits like a truck death laser. The only option is MB roll.

- "Well just jump and use sword spin." Man, this thing is bad on block, on whiff and it gets swatted out of the sky like a North Korean missile test. Say the opponent respects it and blocks, you're eating a combo. Spend the bar, and all we get is neutral, 0f. Half the cast get +frames for that cost, and the other half have 50/50's.


Can I get some guidance on this dude? I'm not sure which strings other players are staggering because besides standing 1 and 123 (+1), I'm not seeing anything useful. Rant over.
 
Sheeeet. I'm reading all of those negatives and I can't disagree with the bulk of it. But I'm a stubborn bitch that uses the character i think is coolest regardless of viability(I main susanoo in bbcf, if you know that game amd its tier viability you know exactly what i mean lmao). And Damians fluidity flashy/cockyness is just something i refuse to pass on because of day 1 faults. I don't care how bad he may be(if that's even the case) he will be my main. Only buffs to come in the future though so there's that to look forward to. But until then, what's everyone's go to tech for him currently? Good oki setups, bnbs for no bar and 1 bar and so forth. I'm curious as to what has been working for people against actual competent humans.
 

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
Liking him so far but in need of some BnBs, any help?
I think the general consensus on BnB's is

"Starter xx db2 MB, b3, ender"

The b3 is kind of tight, but not impossible by any means. I found that it's easiest to connect off of 212, so if you go for a punish I'd recommend this string to start (albeit kind of slow).

I've seen a few different enders that go into setups off of 212, which is a hard knock down, cancelled into either bird or trait.
 

RexyWrecks

RTSD All Day. I'm going in. No Vaseline.
Sheeeet. I'm reading all of those negatives and I can't disagree with the bulk of it. But I'm a stubborn bitch that uses the character i think is coolest regardless of viability(I main susanoo in bbcf, if you know that game amd its tier viability you know exactly what i mean lmao). And Damians fluidity flashy/cockyness is just something i refuse to pass on because of day 1 faults. I don't care how bad he may be(if that's even the case) he will be my main. Only buffs to come in the future though so there's that to look forward to. But until then, what's everyone's go to tech for him currently? Good oki setups, bnbs for no bar and 1 bar and so forth. I'm curious as to what has been working for people against actual competent humans.
Spoken like a true loyalist.
 

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
I'm not sure what these are going to be used for just yet, but I assume trait acts as a reversal. Not a very good one... But it functions. Maybe some interesting punishes will come along in the future.

Tested vs Robin 9f reversal Sword Dance

Safe Strings to Trait

  • 21

  • 212

  • b2

  • b21

  • f2

  • f21
Unsafe String Made Safe with Bounce Cancel (bait&punish)

  • b12 xx bounce

  • 21

  • b2
Comboing with b3, ji3, d2 xx blue trait (far), b2 xx trait, 12 xx bf3, 350 damage.
 

Nexallus

From Takeda to Robin
I'm not sure what these are going to be used for just yet, but I assume trait acts as a reversal. Not a very good one... But it functions. Maybe some interesting punishes will come along in the future.

Tested vs Robin 9f reversal Sword Dance

Safe Strings to Trait

  • 21

  • 212

  • b2

  • b21

  • f2

  • f21
Unsafe String Made Safe with Bounce Cancel (bait&punish)

  • b12 xx bounce

  • 21

  • b2
Comboing with b3, ji3, d2 xx blue trait (far), b2 xx trait, 12 xx bf3, 350 damage.
Can blue trait make Robin's unsafe strings safe? Also, can his strings be safe if they are used from maximum distance? (I can't lab right now unfortunately).
 
Just came home from work and got my copy of I2, went 10 minutes into training mode & went online instantly lol. If you main Nash in SFV or Takeda in MKX you might wanna give Robin a try.

This is my 10 minute Robin going in. :p

 

Gengar

Hypnosis > Dreameater (its a reset)
What are people doing for meterless damage?

Ive been doing f212 d2~db3 d12~bf3

d2 into the swoop will whiff tho occastionally, i think theres a timing to make it hit consistently.
 

boba_buster

Noob saibot
I'm not sure what these are going to be used for just yet, but I assume trait acts as a reversal. Not a very good one... But it functions. Maybe some interesting punishes will come along in the future.

Tested vs Robin 9f reversal Sword Dance

Safe Strings to Trait

  • 21

  • 212

  • b2

  • b21

  • f2

  • f21
Unsafe String Made Safe with Bounce Cancel (bait&punish)

  • b12 xx bounce

  • 21

  • b2
Comboing with b3, ji3, d2 xx blue trait (far), b2 xx trait, 12 xx bf3, 350 damage.
Seems like 212 into trait is neutral on block
And 212 into tele after the smoke pellet is out feels slightly plus. At least when I jump tested anyway.
 

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
Can blue trait make Robin's unsafe strings safe? Also, can his strings be safe if they are used from maximum distance? (I can't lab right now unfortunately).
Yeah in certain situations, placing trait makes unsafe normals safe, it all depends on the opponents attempted punish. Regarding my lab time vs. a mirror Robin, Sword Dance 9f was the preferred punish (since the AI could run it flawlessly).

b2 for example: raw b2 was punished by 9f reversal, where as "b2 xx trait (any)" was safe. Beyond that, after watching @Red Raptor 's recent Robin tech vid, I found that activating any version of the trait (2nd press), made things even safer even if the trait didn't hit the opponent. Probably could've just looked at the frame data for that one. Oh well.

- Blue is +, how many frames idk but the further away from the opponent, the more + it is.
- Red is -, but I don't believe it's punishable, not by Robin anyway.
- Yellow is maybe the most interesting. It doesn't jail or anything the way blue does, but I'm finding it hard to punish via reversal. The AI can do it because it auto corrects the inputs after crossing up. I doubt a human opponent would have any luck, and would likely get a weird button/ command trying (whiff punish opportunity).
 

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
Sorry for the double post. I'm working issues I found with my gameplay, namely respecting + frames, punishes and anti airs. Stuff I found so far.

Jailing Normals After Swoop Standing Reset (+15f)
  • walk forward s1

  • walk forward d1

  • b1

  • s2

  • b2

  • d2

  • d3
These should be fairly obvious since you can see in the move list that Swoop is +15 on hit. The only normals Robin has that don't jail are b3, f3 and... wait, why f2. Wut?

By the data, this should not jail, it should be 3 frames too slow at an 18f startup. What up with that? Either there's a strong buffer mechanic at work, jumps have start ups in which you can still block, or the frame data is wrong.


Antiair Option (w/ Trait)

  • D2 xx blue trait (far), s3 xx trait, b12 xx assassins strike
Or D2 into 212 xx ender w/o trait, something like that.


Punish Options

Robin's start-up is butts for the most part. I found these to be his better punish options when the window is tight.
  • standing 12- high, 7f, +1 on block, +14 on hit. Short range, comfortable, hard knockdown.

  • d12- mid, 6f, -5 on block, +27 on hit. Short range, combos in Swoop (standing reset, cross up opportunity).

  • d2- mid, 8f, -15 on block, launches on hit (d2 xx swoop, d12, d2 xx assassin strike).

  • Sword dance- mid, 9f, -30 on block, MB launches on hit/ -3 on block, powerful reversal option.
 

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
Man, not allowing ability gear in tournament is like only allowing one variation in MKX. Unless someone's ability is straight busted I want to use a staff in tournament.
 

Samsara

Resident Cynic
I created a combo thread to avoid cluttering up the general. Anyone is welcome to share what they know concerning combos there. My apologies.
 

sranc

creep
I created a combo thread to avoid cluttering up the general. Anyone is welcome to share what they know concerning combos there. My apologies.
This is awesome, trying to sift through the discussion threads and the discourse is a pain in the ass
 

Samsara

Resident Cynic
This is awesome, trying to sift through the discussion threads and the discourse is a pain in the ass
I understand that, believe me. I figured I'd start on this overnight so it's ready for people in the morning. How are you liking Robin so far?