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General/Other - Reptile Reptile Post Patch 6/23/15

H

huh

Noob
Here are the notes:

  • Reptile - adjusted several hitboxes to hit more consistently
  • Reptile - can no longer repeatedly stack the damage nullification from Stealth & Invisibility
  • Reptile - Slithering Slaps (Away + BP) increased damage by 2
  • Reptile - increased damage of Slink combo (FP, BP, FP) by 4
  • Reptile - increased damage on Deadly Venom combo (FP, BK) by 4
  • Reptile - decreased damage of Dragon Kick (FK) by 2
  • Reptile - increased damage of Shedding Skin combo (FK, BK, Down + BK) by 2
  • Reptile - increased hit/cancel advantage on Sneaky Snake combo (Away + FP, Down + BK) by 20
  • Reptile - increased damage Toxic combo (Towards + FK, Away + BK) by 2
  • Reptile - Low Heel (Down + FK) now has 7 startup frames (down from 9) and is -3 on block (up from -2)
Here are them so we can discuss the changes and report any other hidden changes that we may find.

For instance:
34~ffb is now a combo, and that is not indicated above. Any other changes you've noticed?

--------------

I think the changes mainly added 2 tools to reptile:

1) a faster d3 can be finally a way to get out of pressure.

2) adding 2 more strings that can lead to a meterless combo (34~ffb, b1d4~ffb), makes Reptile less meter dependent.

34~ffb, although is not a mid and is slower than f412, is easy to hitconfirm, 34 is totally safe, and could be the most damaging starter mid screen now.
And b1d4 can catch people off guard due to the low second hit, especially if they are conditioned to block high the f412.

Regarding the damage buffs:

b2 have 2% more now. Better but not game changing though..

Besides that, the damage increase on the other strings doesn't seem much useful, unless it leads to new enders that I can't foresee now, or any other surprising tech is found. Otherwise, they seem pretty focused on strings that are hardly used and the changes do not seem enough to make them any more attractive.

Any comments? Any game changing buff here?

EDIT: Reptillian dash NJP combos are back! Credit to @Fraud Blank
ex: f412~reptilian dash, njp, 21, run~f412~slide = 32%

EDIT 2: Additional info from @RapZiLLa54
RapZiLLa54 said:
After toying with him with @G4S J360 for like 2 hours in training mode last night here is what we discovered.

Pros
Forceball/NJP combos are back!
34>fb>sb>uppercut> run > f412 slide is the new meterless swag of 34%
b1d4 also combos into reg fb for around 30 or 31%
f412 > dash > NJP > f41 >f412 slide is 34% meterless although super strict.
New EX nimble combo mid screen is 34>fb> late NJP EX nimble > b34 > f41 > f412 > slide I believe was 39-40%? Can't remember. I'm sure this can be done in the corner for more damage.
b2 combos buffed especially in the corner is a welcomed addition.

Its not just about the meterless combos here its about that they actually leave your opponent open for 50/50 in nimble as well.

34 reg Nimble is actually a legit setup, its spacing on hit allows you to counter anything your opponent will do which is huge. 34 EX nimble run in is a free 50/50. This also buffs Noxious because he gets a free string / grab setup when activating Noxious after 34/b1d4 as well. 121 on hit has similar buffs too.

b1d4 Is a big buff IMO. Now he has a low string hit that combos meterless for solid damage. It also has the same properties where a b1d4 ex nimble grants a 50/50 mixup or b1d4 noxious the same. His b1 has very good range as well so this might end up being his best punisher for some specials/strings.

7frame d3 is great.

Cons
Forceball still suck for zoning and EX fb is still full combo punishable....
Spit still does only 5% damage is -16 and doesn't have enough advantage on hit outside of Nimble.
No safe specials or buffs to meter building, granted we just got 2 new meterless starters so this one is kind of a wash?
Damage nerf to Nimble in the corner was pretty severe, his 49% combo now only does 43%.
No variation buffs and most of the damage buffs are mute outside of b2 because they have no combo ability so his highest damaging combo actually got nerfed, not buffed.


Overall Thoughts
These buffs help Reptile but I'm not sure its much to move him up the chart. His 7F d3 now lets him deal with fake fbc pressure he originally couldn't deal with but more importantly forces opponents to have to poke him instead of check him with strings which is huge imo and I'm excited to see how that plays out. Still might be the only character in the game without a safe / + special, he solely relies on option selects which is well boring imo. Nimble and Deceptive still rely too heavily on meter and with the big damage nerf to Nimble I think this without a doubt makes Noxious his #1 variation. Is he still bottom 5? Probably but I can say for certain hes at least fun to play with forceball combos again which matters a lot to me.
Click to expand...
 
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H

huh

Noob
Some more info:

A correction in the notes:
f3b4, which is described in the notes as "toxic", is matter of fact named "scaly serpent" in the move list.

Also, looking into the movelist, the only safe strings that were buffed were 34 and 14

34 was explained above. Now can lead to a meterless combo.

14 is a safe string (-2) that leads to a hard knockdown on hit. It can be mixed with 141, which is +2 on block, and on hit put the opponent full screen. A blocked 141 puts the opponent in a good distance for a f412, b34, f21. Maybe can now be used in a block string, and, if 14 hits it gives you 7% and wakeup pressure. If 141 hits, it gives you 14% and you can put a forceball on screen.

Of course, those options were available before the patch, but now on hit you are granted 4% more.
 
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H

huh

Noob
According to the notes, the frame data for b1d4 changed to add 20 frames on hit and cancel advantage. The ingame frame data shows the correct hit advantage now (+27) and since the cancel advantage is +14 (39 total frames - 25 cancel frames), the cancel advantage on hit is now +41 (27+14) and forceballs (33f) combo after the string.

Also, if that's correct, having a +41 cancel advantage on hit gives another safe way to activate ex basilisk (nimble) and toxic fumes (noxious).

Edited: corrected the cancel advantage on hit value
 
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buyacushun

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
huh said:
According to the notes, the frame data for b1d4 changed to add 20 frames on hit and cancel advantage. The ingame frame data shows the correct hit advantage now (+27) and since the cancel advantage is +25, the cancel advantage on hit is now +42 and since forceballs have a startup of 33 and they combo after the string.

Also, if that's correct, having a +42 cancel advantage on hit gives another safe way to activate ex basilisk (nimble) and toxic fumes (noxious).
Click to expand...
I'm just going around seeing the aftermath after this patch but please explain how the HA being +27 and CA being +25 = +42. Wouldn't you add both numbers for +52? It's probably a typo but I just want to make sure I'm reading the frame data right. Otherwise hope you are enjoying the spoils of a patch day.
 
Reactions: huh
H

huh

Noob
Fraud Blank said:
Lol most of the changes are useless except for the 7f D3. It's w/e but enough.

Btw stealth nerf: 34 xx EX Swipe, NJP, 21, F412 xx Slide now does 32% instead of 34%
Click to expand...
Probably due to the damage decrease on the fk (3) by 2.

Yeah, in my personal opinion, the changes are very underwhelming and do not solve reptile's problems. He still can't use his forceballs to zone, nor the overall damage is better. The damage buffs really doesn't add much, and the new combos are from slow starters that are duckable and have no reach or advancing properties. So, in the end, we are still using f412 almost always, and I don't see the meta changing much... And that doesn't change nothing regarding the lack of diversity in his variations.

But, anyway, that's what we got for now, and I hope we can try to figure out the maximum we can with it.
 
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H

huh

Noob
buyacushun said:
I'm just going around seeing the aftermath after this patch but please explain how the HA being +27 and CA being +25 = +42. Wouldn't you add both numbers for +52? It's probably a typo but I just want to make sure I'm reading the frame data right. Otherwise hope you are enjoying the spoils of a patch day.
Click to expand...
It's a typo! Thanks for noticing. Corrected in the original post
 
Gesture Required Ahead

Gesture Required Ahead

Get on that hook
huh said:
Probably due to the damage decrease on the fk (3) by 2.

Yeah, in my personal opinion, the changes are very underwhelming and do not solve reptile's problems. He still can't use his forceballs to zone, nor the overall damage is better. The damage buffs really doesn't add much, and the new combos are from slow starters that are duckable and have no reach or advancing properties. So, in the end, we are still using f412 almost always, and I don't see the meta changing much... And that doesn't change nothing regarding the lack of diversity in variations.

But, anyway, that's what we got for now, and I hope we can try to figure out the maximum we can with it.
Click to expand...
7f D3 makes defending much less riskier. IMO this at least makes him at least viable.
 
Reactions: huh
H

huh

Noob
buyacushun said:
I'm just going around seeing the aftermath after this patch but please explain how the HA being +27 and CA being +25 = +42. Wouldn't you add both numbers for +52? It's probably a typo but I just want to make sure I'm reading the frame data right. Otherwise hope you are enjoying the spoils of a patch day.
Click to expand...
Hey man, I was reviewing the math, and actually, the way cancel advantage is calculated is different from what you and I were thinking:

The cancel data of 25 refers to how many frames into the move the special takes to come out. It is not the cancel advantage, which we would have to calculate as following:

On hit you are +27. If you cancel with a special, it comes out 25 frames into the move. Since the move has 39 total frames (summing startup, active and recover), it gives you a cancel advantage of 39-25 = 14 frames, which adds to your hit advantage of 27 totaling +41. This is the real Cancel Advantage on Hit.

If the cancel advantage on hit was +52, we should be able to cancel into ex basilisk (36 startup) in Nimble, and still connect an ex slide (6f) or any move under 15 frames. But it was impossible, and so I figured something was wrong with the math. Now, having a cancel adv. on hit of 41 seems right since you have only a 6f window after ex basilisk and so the ex slide doesn't connect.

So, I've edited the op again! lol
 
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H

huh

Noob
Fraud Blank said:
Also were these possible pre-patch?
Click to expand...
Maaan!!

I don't know if this was possible. But it gives me MK9 nostalgia!

So, F412~reptilian dash, njp, 21, run~f412~slide = 32% ?

I'm practicing this and the njp timing is a bit strict but perhaps with practice it can become consistent. And it is stylish! Good find!

Can anyone confirm if this was possible before?
 
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Crathen

Crathen

Death is my business
huh said:
Maaan!!

I don't know if this was possible. But it gives me MK9 nostalgia!

So, F412~reptilian dash, njp, 21, run~f412~slide = 32% ?

I'm practicing this and the njp timing is a bit strict but after 10 minutes it is already looking practical. BNB potential indeed, and stylish. Good find!

Can anyone confirm if this was possible before?
Click to expand...
It wasn't possible prepatch , it has to do with the hitbox adjustments ( buff ) wich involved the NJP
 
Reactions: huh
Wam-Zlay

Wam-Zlay

Reptile / Noob
oh man this will pretty much let me play Reptile again. They "nerfed" Kung Lao Tempest dmg anyways :p.
 
Wam-Zlay

Wam-Zlay

Reptile / Noob
Fraud Blank said:
1% boost on F412 BnB doesn't change much. The only thing that's useful about it is that F21 becomes much easier to do after 21 because of the NJP juggle height
Click to expand...
well it´s not like he is OP now or something. I just like the d3 change and that he can pull off more combos meterless. Also i love that u can njp after RPD :)
 
DOOMSDAY-15RUS-

DOOMSDAY-15RUS-

i'LL DESTROY YOU ALL
and no one talk about damage boost for one of the best reptile combo ender (1,4, rep dash (whiff) / or double dash whiff) for lots of set ups?
 
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Reactions: huh
Wam-Zlay

Wam-Zlay

Reptile / Noob
Also another reason is, that i always dropped combos after f412 RPD. So i couldn´t combo out of f412 (i always did f412 (ex) claw, or f412 ex ffb, so i could combo out of f412)
 
Zaccel

Zaccel

Noob
Hopefully by making hitboxes "hit more consistently" it'll mean 2124 is less iffy. I quite like that string, so having not get me killed on occasion is a big plus. Any indication that this might refer to changes to air hitboxes, or maybe his d2?

I'm still not sold on damage improvements making up for Reptile's deficiencies, but if there's more combos with FFB, and a beefier b2 I won't look a gift horse in the mouth. The apparent return of njp after ED warms my chilled, bitter heart. Ending combos with a harder-hitting 14 might go places.

b1d4xxFFB is sweet, but I land b1 pretty much never, so I don't know how useful that would be.

d3 at 7 frames is like yo. I didn't think I wanted this, but here we are.

Still puzzled why db4 and db2 were left as-is. Surely they didn't go unnoticed?
 
H

huh

Noob
Zaccel said:
Still puzzled why db4 and db2 were left as-is. Surely they didn't go unnoticed?
Click to expand...
Actually, now b3/f3~ex db4b hits crouching opponents with the OH, which can launch them for a combo. It whiffed before.

But db4 is still pretty much the same, which is almost equal to useless.. if it had advantage on block as the similar move in MK9 it would definitely be used much more.

db2 still unsafe and not an overhead. That would be, alongside the forceball frame reduction, my dream buff..
 
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