Match-up Discussion Reptile Matchup Discussion Thread

[G4S Killin Natzees]

I'm not sure i understand where this is coming from

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

I'm not sure i understand where this is coming from

the more I read about how you feell MU's go... the more I realize in just about every single one... you guys think Reptile loses up close. Fact of the matter is that his dash is just as punishable as Kitana's d1... which doesn't do nearly the same damage nor give the same oki.

dash is basically d1 for reptile. It punishes all pokes on block... and some on hit.

 

[Briggs8417]

re-read.

and no... there really are only d4's that deter me from doing what I want. d1's and d3's aren't HC-able. So you either have to commit to another poke... or to the follow up string. and most people dash after the poke... negating any advantage they have.
Most d1's are +1 at most on hit. D3's on STAND are better... but usually they aren't enough to stop anything from ME. Granted on crouch hit they are OP as fuck.

this is my way of saying that I buffer dash anytime someone puts me in a block string on every hit. the MOMENT i see a poke i let it go. You want people to quit poking you... this is typically how I do it. Or you'll land about a million dashes. one or the other.

I will say this for the very last time and if you don't take it to heart then fine I really don't care you can eat full combos all you want it won't bother me because I told you so, DASH IS NOT THE ANSWER TO EVERY SITUATION. DASHING TO GET OUT OF PRESSURE IS ONE OF THE RISKIEST THINGS YOU CAN DO TO ESCAPE PRESSURE. It's not that we are overestimating pokes, it's that you all are not only overestimating elbow dash, but also underestimating opponents. You just assume that people don't know dash is coming ever, and that you can just do it whenever you want and be free. Don't give me use ex dash either because I don't want to burn the meter just to get POKED out and be put at disadvantage all over again. I'm so tired of being told to just YOLO dash. Shit is stupid. Not to mention there are plenty of characters who can stuff it after a d3 on hit i.e. LK, KL, Sektor, Sonya, Kabal, Cage etc.

 

[Briggs8417]

the more I read about how you feell MU's go... the more I realize in just about every single one... you guys think Reptile loses up close. Fact of the matter is that his dash is just as punishable as Kitana's d1... which doesn't do nearly the same damage nor give the same oki.

dash is basically d1 for reptile. It punishes all pokes on block... and some on hit.

Kitana's d1 is also cancellable. Dash is not a poke...just stop dude.

STB CharlieMurphy Also, most of his bad MU's aren't just lost up close, most of them are bad because he gets shut down from everywhere on screen. KL, LK, Sonya, Kabal, and Freddie all outzone him as well as keep up with or beat him in the footsies game. It's when REPTILE has all of his tools taken away and has to start RELYING ON DASH THAT HE LOSES.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Kitana's d1 is also cancellable. Dash is not a poke...just stop dude.

No... I don't understand

its ok for other charcters to counter poke with 6 and 7 frame moves... but not reptile?

My answer isn't YOLO dash..... i'm just saying... in any situation where you'd use Cages' d1/d3.... you'd use elbow dash.

not trying to be a dick..... not at all. I don't get the mindset of NOT using dash as a counterpoke.

 

[Briggs8417]

No... I don't understand

its ok for other charcters to counter poke with 6 and 7 frame moves... but not reptile?

My answer isn't YOLO dash..... i'm just saying... in any situation where you'd use Cages' d1/d3.... you'd use elbow dash.

Kitana can cancel and still get interrupted by..... 6frame moves!!! I don't get it? I really don't.

The difference is if Cage gets a d1 or d3 blocked he is practically safe unless he is counterpoke, if Reptile gets a dash blocked have fun eating that combo. Also if you can dash a 6 frame gap then you shouldn't even be talking to me about this game because you are a gawd and clearly better than me.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

The difference is if Cage gets a d1 or d3 blocked he is practically safe unless he is counterpoke, if Reptile gets a dash blocked have fun eating that combo. Also if you can dash a 6 frame gap then you shouldn't even be talking to me about this game because you are a gawd and clearly better than me.

trust me i'm no awesome player.
I'm just tying to figure out why you aren't punishing obvious pokes with dash. Like d1's and d3's. They are more than -6 on block... so thats free 11% into oki. Especially in MU's like Cage where that dickhole is going to poke you to death.

I've gotten a ton better at punishing Kitana's d1 on block by just tapping bf bf bf bf bf bf during her blockstrings... and when I sense either a stagger or a poke... i mash 2. This is online and I know i'll eat a few of them. But even so...

Idk. I'm just trying to hash out some stuff.

 

[GGA Saucy Jack]

Ill let the reptiles debate dash as a poke, but i feel i should at least point out:

Kitanas d1 is cancellable into...more things that get her blown up. I wouldnt use that one as your argument. just trying to keep it consistent.

Now carry on my little muffins. Just wanted to point that out. I dig this convo though. Im learning more and more about scrubtile.

 

[Briggs8417]

trust me i'm no awesome player.
I'm just tying to figure out why you aren't punishing obvious pokes with dash. Like d1's and d3's. They are more than -6 on block... so thats free 11% into oki. Especially in MU's like Cage where that dickhole is going to poke you to death.

I've gotten a ton better at punishing Kitana's d1 on block by just tapping bf bf bf bf bf bf during her blockstrings... and when I sense either a stagger or a poke... i mash 2. This is online and I know i'll eat a few of them. But even so...

Idk. I'm just trying to hash out some stuff.

D1's are one thing on block, dash is free off of that. At the very least some pressure, but if they hit forget about it you'll get stuff/blocked. D3's are practically impossible to dash punish because most aren't more than -8 on block. A 2 frame window to input the dash is just not going to happen consistently man.

 

[Briggs8417]

Ill let the reptiles debate dash as a poke, but i feel i should at least point out:

Kitanas d1 is cancellable into...more things that get her blown up. I wouldnt use that one as your argument. just trying to keep it consistent.

Now carry on my little muffins. Just wanted to point that out. I dig this convo though. Im learning more and more about scrubtile.

All d1's are cancellable was my point, Kitana's isn't the greatest example. Hell I will let hers hit me while crouching if she want to do that shit into cutter and still get a whiff punish.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

A 2 frame window to input the dash is just not going to happen consistently man.

challenge accepted.

I think they're only a handful of characters who's d3 gets them a blockstring. I guess I need to figure out who they are.

 

[G4S Killin Natzees]

Counterpoking low-pokes is a great idea on paper.
Also, when we say he loses up close, it means we have shit speed normals, and their footsies in general hail in comparison.
If you can counterpoke with a dash a d3, you should be able to dash sonya's kartwheel on reaction as well. It just isn't happening lol.

 

[Briggs8417]

challenge accepted.

I think they're only a handful of characters who's d3 gets them a blockstring. I guess I need to figure out who they are.

See man this is not the mentality of a top player. If a really good MK player gets a d3 blocked, they are not going to follow up with anything unless it is REALLY REALLY FAST. Trust me on this one, it's a part of my game that I'm really needing to work on because I'm getting counterpoked way too often as of late.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

No... I don't understand

its ok for other charcters to counter poke with 6 and 7 frame moves... but not reptile?

My answer isn't YOLO dash..... i'm just saying... in any situation where you'd use Cages' d1/d3.... you'd use elbow dash.

not trying to be a dick..... not at all. I don't get the mindset of NOT using dash as a counterpoke.

See the thing is d1 and d3s always have pushback and leave you crouching, so not every character has the same opportunities to punish them that they have to punish dash.


For instance, have Lao block a Kitana d1, and how is he going to counterpoke? d4 will punish it (with strict timing), so will EN Spin if he is 100% on point with his timing, but that is scary because it's so unsafe.

Now if Lao blocks an elbow Dash, he is going to 21 xx Spin into like 40% every time.


Now look at the same for Cyrax. He counterpokes d1 back with a d4 or d1 xx special maybe.

He punishes Elbow Dash with 12 xx Net into huge reset.


Sektor d4's d1 but gets a full 48%ish combo against elbow dash.

Ermac d4's d1 but gets his full 40%ish against dash.

Kenshi gets 9% from SC off of d1, but he gets 36% against dash.

etc.

Even if you look at chars that punish d1 well:


Johnny gets 20% off of d1 punish and 31% off of Dash (both into nut punch of course.)

Kabal gets 28% off of d1 punish and 36% off of dash (both into pressure)

Those make a big difference.



The only chars that get full equal punishes off of both are (I believe):

Rain, Shang, Nightwolf, Liu Kang, and Jax (SORT OF, he loses damage if he wants to end in overhead or energy wave.)

 

[Briggs8417]

I also forgot to mention that depending on the spacing at which the pokes are taking place, that dash could possibly be slower than 6 frames of startup...so yeah, fruit for thought there.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

See man this is not the mentality of a top player. If a really good MK player gets a d3 blocked, they are not going to follow up with anything unless it is REALLY REALLY FAST. Trust me on this one, it's a part of my game that I'm really needing to work on because I'm getting counterpoked way too often as of late.

and they'll still get punished for it
thats my point. 2 frame window is still a doable window.

CLEARLY i'm not going to 100% punish every poke i block..... duh

I'm also not saying "herp derp, replace d1 with ED"

To me... a top player would make every opponent FEAR using pokes because thats 11% + 2% chip or reptile dashing around like a nutcase.

I don't think i've even USED d3 or d1 with Reptile ever. Just d4 to start stuff... and Dash to punish counterpokes.
Maybe I am wrong.

Like I said... i'm just trying to hash out this mindset I have while I use him.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

also dash punishing d3 is nearly impossible, and who really uses d1's nowadays? Pretty much just Kitana, haha.

 

[Briggs8417]

and they'll still get punished for it
thats my point. 2 frame window is still a doable window.

CLEARLY i'm not going to 100% punish every poke i block..... duh

I'm also not saying "herp derp, replace d1 with ED"

To me... a top player would make every opponent FEAR using pokes because thats 11% + 2% chip or reptile dashing around like a nutcase.

I don't think i've even USED d3 or d1 with Reptile ever. Just d4 to start stuff... and Dash to punish counterpokes.
Maybe I am wrong.

Read above. YOU ARE NOT GOING TO PUNISH ALL D3's with dash if any at all man. It's not happening, it's not a counterpoke. It's a simple get off me move when you can find a window to input it.

 

[Briggs8417]

also dash punishing d3 is nearly impossible, and who really uses d1's nowadays? Pretty much just Kitana, haha.

THIS^ THIS^ THIS^ THIS^ 1000x THIS^

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

remember -7 for a down poke means -7 assuming you let go of block the frame that it touches you (which is impossible unless you can react in 6 frames, which humans can't.) so you will almost never see an actually -7 d3, most times it will be like -3 or -2.

 

[G4S Killin Natzees]

X

Read above. YOU ARE NOT GOING TO PUNISH ALL D3's with dash if any at all man. It's not happening, it's not a counterpoke. It's a simple get off me move when you can find a window to input it.

Jax and d1 are mighty frivolous my friend EGP Wonder_Chef

 

[G4S Killin Natzees]

Jax and d1 are mighty frivolous my friend

I quoted the wrong post lmao sorry joker

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

also dash punishing d3 is nearly impossible, and who really uses d1's nowadays? Pretty much just Kitana, haha.

how?
LK will still eat a dash if you get HIT and he goes for b3.

idk..... I'll just keep messing with it.
I'm not trying to attack you guys at all

I'm also pretty sure d3 is impossible to HC.

 

[Chongo]

I counterpoke d4's on hit with BF2

#Yolo #Swag #FreshBoi #online

 

[Briggs8417]

how?
LK will still eat a dash if you get HIT and he goes for b3.

idk..... I'll just keep messing with it.
I'm not trying to attack you guys at all

I'm also pretty sure d3 is impossible to HC.

That's if he follows up with b3 and it's still a 3 frame window AND you have to be standing. It also depends on spacing, because again dash is not always 6 frames on startup, and can be anywhere up to 12 depending on where he is on screen.