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Tech - Relentless Relentless Tech and Strategy Discussion

Just started playing Relentless tonight..... Really digging the "damned" and how it stacks ... The "red " move is great vs people who dont know about it :\ ... But i have found thing that shut it down clean using air specials///Namely air superman


What does the Enhanced version of the Red move do though ?
 
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Scrotie79

Wannabe Pro Jobber
Just started playing Relentless tonight..... Really digging the "damned" and how it stacks ... The "red " move is great vs people who dont know about it :\ ... But i have found thing that shut it down clean using air specials///Namely air superman


What does the Enhanced version of the Red move do though ?
Enhanced Dark Pursuit has less recovery frames. Normal is 44, Enhanced Dark Pursuit is 27(I think). It has been a while since I looked at the frame data though.
 

PANDEMlC

El Psy Congroo
So how do you approach someone mashing a fast d1,d3 without wasting meter or jumping in? Is it possible? I got stuffed out like 10 times vs a Cassie mashing that. B122 specificaly was doing nothing for me. Perhaps forward 3 or forward 44?

EDIT: Looks like you just time any of your strings between hits, was basically impossible online since it was laggy. Not too hard in training mode, look for poke, hit string as soon as you see it, and it seems to connect fine. Although B122 whiffs sometimes, guess since shes a female her hitbox is smaller. There's always the option to block d1s or d3s since usually they're negative and d1 yourself see if it hits and if it does go for command grab or b122. But I was more speficially addressing the mid range neutral game scenario, was hoping something so stupid wouldn't shut down b122 so hard. It's not too bad at stuffing it. Again probably less abusable as a male character since b1 wont whiff. f3 and b4 are good for this, much more reliable and setup good knockdown for pursuit or command grabs.

EDIT 2: The main problem is the range in which you need to be to use b122 in this scenario, too far you get stuffed, too close and youre risking them actually doing something else or getting hit and starting their own pressure. Definitely jump in, armor, sweep, f3. Enjoy reading my pointless thought process. :D
 
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If you're trying to say that the opponent was just mashing d1/3 you really shouldn't lose to that. You can just b4 or d4, and sometimes even f4 then start your game. b12 as good as it is has a bad hitbox and can be ducked under randomly or low profiled.
Also make sure on block you always stop at b12 because -1.
 

PANDEMlC

El Psy Congroo
If you're trying to say that the opponent was just mashing d1/3 you really shouldn't lose to that. You can just b4 or d4, and sometimes even f4 then start your game. b12 as good as it is has a bad hitbox and can be ducked under randomly or low profiled.
Also make sure on block you always stop at b12 because -1.
I came to that conclusion in my post, it was an evolving thing. I could of deleted it but I figured I'd leave it there for anyone who finds it helpful. I really like his b4, going through projectiles is great but the fact that it ducks things like Jax dash punch is very nice.

Unrelated to this. Do you guys do b12 and go into ex command grab? I know you're -1 but if you make people think you're going to do the full string they'll give you that bit of time to throw it out. It was working surprisingly well for me. Also b12 and doing another b12 was working well to, obviously if someone knows the matchup you can't get away with this as much but I thought it was pretty nice. Also b1 tick grab seems to be the best one, since people expect the pressure and block but instead eat a grab. Problem is it's the hardest tick grab because you have to do it the fastest.
 

Obamu

Noob
So I've been contemplating, I'm Jason Relentless and play an adaptive semi-defensive play style, like on an unsafe on block or whiffs by an opponent u punish them with full combo, but your regular stance is a crouching block, when opponent tries to jump in command grab anti-air cause it hits like 16%, my offense will be command grabs cause I dont have to worry about blocks, still mastering but I believe I always get it but not an instant input yet, my choice of command grabs are DBF1 or DBF2, preferably DBF1 cause its higher damage, but each has their pros cons, I've tested all his tick throws but F2 seems the fastest and safest or 24 If I feel like it.

not sure if I should follow this playstyle, I just don't like to take into account on if they block and if it's high or low, something about blocks just annoys me, I'm a pretty simple minded player, if I want to take into offense atleast make it decent damage, that's why unblockables really piqued my interest, so far Jason is the closest that has the tools that I need like gap-closer and anti-air and of course some high damaging command-grabs(unblockable ofcourse),

one thing that makes me sad is the Brutality requisite of Relentless, u have to have Pursuit on to be able to do his unique brutality, why not something that is not easily ruined by the other player? like jump 10 times or press these buttons in sequence while doing the grab cause no one can ruin it except yourself. Pursuit should just be removed and to compensate make Lake Mist do a hit even 1% or way faster recovery is fine too!
 

Jaku2011

Filled with determination
I'd have to pay attention and look. Half the time I just don't get anything to come out after a b2/f2, whether it's on hit or block. I'm obviously not doing it fast enough. Rather, that's what I think the issue is.
I actually think they should be done slower, ever since injustice I find those moves only come out when you do the in a smooth motion. That's how I got d1 command grab with Bane to be consistent.
 

PANDEMlC

El Psy Congroo
So I've been contemplating, I'm Jason Relentless and play an adaptive semi-defensive play style, like on an unsafe on block or whiffs by an opponent u punish them with full combo, but your regular stance is a crouching block, when opponent tries to jump in command grab anti-air cause it hits like 16%, my offense will be command grabs cause I dont have to worry about blocks, still mastering but I believe I always get it but not an instant input yet, my choice of command grabs are DBF1 or DBF2, preferably DBF1 cause its higher damage, but each has their pros cons, I've tested all his tick throws but F2 seems the fastest and safest or 24 If I feel like it.

not sure if I should follow this playstyle, I just don't like to take into account on if they block and if it's high or low, something about blocks just annoys me, I'm a pretty simple minded player, if I want to take into offense atleast make it decent damage, that's why unblockables really piqued my interest, so far Jason is the closest that has the tools that I need like gap-closer and anti-air and of course some high damaging command-grabs(unblockable ofcourse),

one thing that makes me sad is the Brutality requisite of Relentless, u have to have Pursuit on to be able to do his unique brutality, why not something that is not easily ruined by the other player? like jump 10 times or press these buttons in sequence while doing the grab cause no one can ruin it except yourself. Pursuit should just be removed and to compensate make Lake Mist do a hit even 1% or way faster recovery is fine too!
I don't like f2 since it's a high and off a blocked jump in it can be interrupted and armored through. B2 is very good though, nice forward moving and hits jumpers. I usually go for d1 tick grab or b2, still gotta learn b1 grab, on the left side I can do it pretty well, I have a bad habit of not rotating my stick all the way to back during the tick grabs on the right side so I gotta keep practicing that. I've never used 24, isn't the first hit high? Regardless from what I remember it was just really slow, which is why I like the b2 and b1 so much, they are both used in good ranges and scenarios where the opponent should be respecting your pressure so they're more likely to eat a grab.

As for what armor grab to use as AA, I've been doing either choke or dbf2. I haven't thought of doing dbf1 but if you say it's higher damage I might try it out. My logic is, if I'm reacting to a air normal, choke is my go to, since the grab needs them to land and choke doesn't, which means they'll be less likely to break your armor. Otherwise I just backdash ex dbf2 or uppercut. Still trying to make s1 work for crossups, its just so difficult to do on reaction and win out.

Also I haven't looked at his brutalities but theres one for hitting the close line, got that a few times accidentally. Pretty funny and easy to do.

EDIT:

On an unrelated note, certain moves can make Jason's EX command grab whiff, I think it'd be important for us to compile a list of all these moves so we can now how much of a risk we're taking when we command grab in certain matchups. For instance, b2, b4, f4, f3, s3, d3, f2, s4 and d4 on Jason can dodge his ex command grab. They all have specific timings but any move that changes the characters hitbox might be a problem for him.

What this is telling me is, we need to condition them to respect choke and b122 even more now before commiting to a command grab, especially if they have moves that move them low or somehow affect their hitbox. This is also pretty huge because it makes his command grab much worse if it can so easily be avoided. I'll keep messing around with this. Seems pretty fucking important.

EDIT 2:

So if I made a list of this, I guess we can start with Jason first just as an example.

Specials and Normals that avoid Jason's EX dbf2(Crippler):

Note:
Armor moves are not listed because most(if not all) will eat the hit and avoid the grab.

Jason:

Jason Notes: Nothing he does exclusively in Slasher other than armor moves can make Crippler whiff

Normals:

Back 1(Needs to be timed at latest possible instance to make it whiff)

Back 2

Forward 2

Standing 2

Standing 3

Back 3(tight timing)

Down 3

Forward 3

Standing 4

Back 4

Forward 4

Down 4

Special Moves:

Choke(Relent/Unstoppable) - Down Forward 1

Tight Squeeze(Relent/Unstoppable) - Down Back Forward 2

Sub-Zero:

Normals:

Back 1(tight timing)

Forward 1

Back 2

Down 2(tight timing)

Down 2(Cryomancer)

Down 3

Back 3

Standing 3

Down 4

Back 4

Special Moves:

Slide - bf4

Ice Clone - db2

Frost Hammer(Cryomancer) - db2

Barrier of Frost(Unbreakable) - db2

I think things like this could go well in the OP or perhaps a separate thread dedicated to the ex command grab(crippler) in general. If you guys think it's important enough I don't mind going through normals and specials from time to time to test. I hope that this is a bug and is fixed at some point. If the person is standing on the ground and I do an EX COMMAND GRAB w/ armor on it I should not be whiffing if I'm in range, that is awful game design for a grappler and I hope that it was an oversight and not intentional.



 
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Obamu

Noob
Just need to confirm this, Are Jason's unique brutalities being "nerfed"? like how I wonder for like 2 days Slasher's unique brutality doesn't go off anymore even If I had always always easily done it before, seems all brutalities needs alteast a meter now, what the hells up with that? Slasher's Brutality using choke DF1 use to happen all the time, even if the opponent is already dead I can still juggle him as long as I did the DF1 and it does the brutality, now it only works for the meter burn version.

not only that the shoulder charger brutality use to be either the MB version or the regular one, so sad with this.

if this looks skeptical I'll find videos on youtube
 

Eldriken

I smolder with generic rage.
Forum General
As far as I know, you always had to use the EX versions for his Brutalities in Slasher. Same with the clothesline Brutality in Relentless.
 
As you probably already know B2 into DBF 2 is a tick throw.

@karaokelove mentioned it connects when it hits are is block which is partially true.

Here is a list of who it works on, on hit.


B2 BDF2 on hit

Always works with.:

Kung Lao

Jax

Kenshi

Kitana

Scorpin

Subzero

Takeda

Cassie

Kung Jin

Kano

Johnny

Liu Kang

Reptile

Ferra Thor

Raiden

Quan Chi

Inconsistent or does not work

Goro : Does not work

D Vorah : max range only

Ermac : Works at Max range only

Erron Black : Works at Max range only

Kotal Kang : Works at Max Range only


Shinnok : Works does not work randomly
 

PANDEMlC

El Psy Congroo
Have we figured out the best way to end combos while armored so we don't get punished?

Seems like bf3 is pretty solid for sending them far if you're midscreen. I know some people like doing a choke or command grab and timing it perfectly but even then it seems most characters can punish you. I personally really like using f3 or f44 to send them across the screen. I usually go for command grab once I have them respecting my armor, but it still seems really shakey. Even if I time it right I'm still basically going to eat a special and give them a knockdown to star their own pressure, which is not what I want if I'm armoring up to make a comeback or trying to control the pace in certain matchups where Jason's defense is shakey. Just figured I'd bring it up again because it's interesting.
 

Rip Torn

ALL I HAVE IS THE GREEN.
Have we figured out the best way to end combos while armored so we don't get punished?

Seems like bf3 is pretty solid for sending them far if you're midscreen. I know some people like doing a choke or command grab and timing it perfectly but even then it seems most characters can punish you. I personally really like using f3 or f44 to send them across the screen. I usually go for command grab once I have them respecting my armor, but it still seems really shakey. Even if I time it right I'm still basically going to eat a special and give them a knockdown to star their own pressure, which is not what I want if I'm armoring up to make a comeback or trying to control the pace in certain matchups where Jason's defense is shakey. Just figured I'd bring it up again because it's interesting.
111~dd4 and b12~dd4 are pretty safe when you end juggles with them. They will usually be in the corner afterwards, so you can go into 24~squeeze from there. It's more of a round ender than a comeback mechanic, imo. Ending the round is pretty much the only way not to get punished when the debuff occurs.

Something else worth noting, after dd4, you can actually activate pursuit, and that is something they can't stop from happening. Meanwhile, you are armored and their inputs/buttons are reversed, which pretty much guarantees a b2~squeeze.
 
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PANDEMlC

El Psy Congroo
I know it's been mentioned but I figured I'd record it and bring it up. Be sure to wait till your Pursuit would have gone on cooldown before activating Deadly Machine(dd4) after you've been knocked out of Pursuit. Game thinks you're still in it and messes up your armor and it will potentially get you full comboed.


- I'm really liking Jason's back 1 by itself, leaves you at massive hit advantage and doesn't over commit. It's also fast enough to throw out intelligently when you see them not doing low hitbox crouching moves. Since you can also tick grab it has it's use there. Sucks so much reliance is in this one string but eh I'll make do.

- B2 is usually my go to when I'm not far enough away to sweep or f44, it's negative on block but on hit you get a nice 30% or you can tick grab it for mind games.

- Jason's air punches are god awful, njp and jump back and jump forward 1 and 2 cover such little space but his jump 3 and njk are actually very solid. Give em a try, definitely his only good air normals.

- I'm still trying to figure out what his most reliable aa is. I do like b2 but sometimes its too slow, uppercut isn't bad but it's got a small hit box, aa grab is awful unless youre making a godlike read on a cross up punch which in that case you might as well s1 or b2 for a full combo. EX choke is good of course, grabs people as they jump off ground, so you don't need them to be grounded to hit it. 20% is always nice.
 
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Hidan

''Re file min ton vareseis'' "Ekkkssso re mlkaaa''
Since Pursuit activates after the "snap" and not after the whole animation, (which hypes me out every time) the move is usable once they've started waiting for lake mist.

Actually them 2 variation specials are a mixup themselves in long range. And if they alone are not enough, EXBF3 comes into play.

I dunno guys about Rise & Resurrection. Relentless seems better and more hype.
 
Since Pursuit activates after the "snap" and not after the whole animation, (which hypes me out every time) the move is usable once they've started waiting for lake mist.

Actually them 2 variation specials are a mixup themselves in long range. And if they alone are not enough, EXBF3 comes into play.

I dunno guys about Rise & Resurrection. Relentless seems better and more hype.
But many characters can OS punish him..

Example Quan chi can press all the buttons and press fb and get the trance .. or he can jump and press uf with all the buttons and you will get skull or stomp all punishing the pursuit.