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Relaxed's Cyborg MU Chart

teh_kingdunch

teh_kingdunch

Mortal
So about KF's MU, I've heard how it's really bad and we don't have an answer for IANB. However, I've tried to check in between IANB with iceberg and it works. We do lose the trade and you can stop doing IANB to block it, but otherwise we get 2 dashes and that's huge, plus if we stop your IANB that's a big plus to us. Obviously I can't do perfect IANB, so I'll ask a Cyborg player to check this out if it's not too much trouble. I've record IANB into jump. Also it only works from half to full screen away.

 
4x4lo8o

4x4lo8o

Warrior
teh_kingdunch said:
So about KF's MU, I've heard how it's really bad and we don't have an answer for IANB. However, I've tried to check in between IANB with iceberg and it works. We do lose the trade and you can stop doing IANB to block it, but otherwise we get 2 dashes and that's huge, plus if we stop your IANB that's a big plus to us. Obviously I can't do perfect IANB, so I'll ask a Cyborg player to check this out if it's not too much trouble. I've record IANB into jump. Also it only works from half to full screen away.

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I'm not sure that this works. I didn't test it extensively, but just recording myself doing a few iaNB it seems really difficult to hit him with Iceberg between Nova Blasts because it has no air hitbox and he's not on the ground long enough. It looks like you do always have time to get the Iceberg out, but a lot of the time it just whiffs and Frost gets hit with the Nova Blast. It's something the Frost player could throw out and if it hits it helps get in, but I don't think you could reliably or consistently force that trade

What makes it even harder is that during a real match the Cyborg player has room to alter his fireball pattern(either intentionally or because of execution inconsistencies) so that the fireballs are still low enough to hit you if you stand(you can't just walk under them) but higher than a perfect iaNB so he stays in the air longer and that makes it even harder to connect with the Iceberg. (I don't know if that made sense the way I explained it, but basically the Cyborg player can change the height of his fireballs to throw off the Frost player)

I've never played this match up before, but it looks like one where Cyborg can just lock her down and make her slowly crouch walk in. I bet Cyborg players love this match up
 
teh_kingdunch

teh_kingdunch

Mortal
4x4lo8o said:
I'm not sure that this works. I didn't test it extensively, but just recording myself doing a few iaNB it seems really difficult to hit him with Iceberg between Nova Blasts because it has no air hitbox and he's not on the ground long enough. It looks like you do always have time to get the Iceberg out, but a lot of the time it just whiffs and Frost gets hit with the Nova Blast. It's something the Frost player could throw out and if it hits it helps get in, but I don't think you could reliably or consistently force that trade

What makes it even harder is that during a real match the Cyborg player has room to alter his fireball pattern(either intentionally or because of execution inconsistencies) so that the fireballs are still low enough to hit you if you stand(you can't just walk under them) but higher than a perfect iaNB so he stays in the air longer and that makes it even harder to connect with the Iceberg. (I don't know if that made sense the way I explained it, but basically the Cyborg player can change the height of his fireballs to throw off the Frost player)

I've never played this match up before, but it looks like one where Cyborg can just lock her down and make her slowly crouch walk in. I bet Cyborg players love this match up
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I don't think different versions of the IANB are an issue, you just have to pay a really close attention to when he is about to hit the ground, so the height that he does it doesn't really matter ( although it requires quick reactions for the really low IANBs ). It's not that hard to do and it really helps KF to get in, plus iceberg is 16 frames, so we can get it out every time. This has to be explored more and in a real match.
 
4x4lo8o

4x4lo8o

Warrior
teh_kingdunch said:
I don't think different versions of the IANB are an issue, you just have to pay a really close attention to when he is about to hit the ground, so the height that he does it doesn't really matter ( although it requires quick reactions for the really low IANBs ). It's not that hard to do and it really helps KF to get in, plus iceberg is 16 frames, so we can get it out every time. This has to be explored more and in a real match.
Click to expand...

I wish I could use my capture card right now so I could show you what I'm talking about.
I've got Cyborg recorded firing 8 iaNB. They're not perfect but they're pretty good and they're about like what I'd be doing in a real match. I'm sitting here with Killer Frost trying to force a trade and it's difficult. Like, maybe 1 in 4 of the Icebergs I attempt will hit.

I think what's happening is just that you're doing them quite a bit too high(it's hard for me tell from your video). If Cyborg's doing them right(again, I'm not talking about frame perfect iaNB, just solid ones that you would reasonably expect from a Cyborg player) you can't see the iaNB and force a trade as he jumps for the next one. You have to throw out the Iceberg before the Nova Blast that you're trying to trade with
 
teh_kingdunch

teh_kingdunch

Mortal
4x4lo8o said:
I wish I could use my capture card right now so I could show you what I'm talking about.
I've got Cyborg recorded firing 8 iaNB. They're not perfect but they're pretty good and they're about like what I'd be doing in a real match. I'm sitting here with Killer Frost trying to force a trade and it's difficult. Like, maybe 1 in 4 of the Icebergs I attempt will hit.

I think what's happening is just that you're doing them quite a bit too high(it's hard for me tell from your video). If Cyborg's doing them right(again, I'm not talking about frame perfect iaNB, just solid ones that you would reasonably expect from a Cyborg player) you can't see the iaNB and force a trade as he jumps for the next one. You have to throw out the Iceberg before the Nova Blast that you're trying to trade with
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I'll try to do some better IANBs tonight and test it more. You mean we have to do the iceberg before the NB that we trade? Hmmm, it really felt like I can do it right after he does the NB and falls to the ground. Again what I tested wasn't a good enough IANB, so I'll test it again tonight.
 
4x4lo8o

4x4lo8o

Warrior
teh_kingdunch said:
I'll try to do some better IANBs tonight and test it more. You mean we have to do the iceberg before the NB that we trade? Hmmm, it really felt like I can do it right after he does the NB and falls to the ground. Again what I tested wasn't a good enough IANB, so I'll test it again tonight.
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Right. It looks like yours is hitting near the top of the head. Mine are mostly below the chin



If I try to Iceberg on reaction to the fireball the iceberg either gets stuffed or whiffs depending on distance
 
Relaxedstate

Relaxedstate

PTH|RM Relaxedstate
teh_kingdunch said:
I don't believe this ( the iceberg part at least ). But I'll try my best to do a few good IANBs tonight and test it to confirm.
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I'll play you if you want. Iceberg has no hitbox at all so iafb cause them to wiff

Edit: I play Astronout and Khaotik all the time. Also play rickyraws from time to time. This is VERY bad MU for KF
 
teh_kingdunch

teh_kingdunch

Mortal
Relaxedstate said:
I'll play you if you want. Iceberg has no hitbox at all so iafb cause them to wiff

Edit: I play Astronout and Khaotik all the time. Also play rickyraws from time to time. This is VERY bad MU for KF
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Unfortunately that can't happen, as I live in Europe. I know you are a great Cyborg player and that you play some of the best KFs. It's true iceberg has no air hitbox, but you are not always in the air. You do touch the ground and iceberg can hit you. Iceberg works on empty jumps into jumps, you input it right before they are about to hit the ground and it catches them. Cyborg can do IANBs pretty fast, but I think from half to full screen away ( closer it does get stuffed ) it should be able to trade so we can dash in. Perfect IANB might be able to negate that, it's hard for me to do them, but I'm practicing and testing right now.
 
teh_kingdunch

teh_kingdunch

Mortal
I managed to get 4 fine IANB ( hitting about KF's neck height ) and I was able to trade with iceberg in between. I tested it full screen, that's the most troublesome scenario for us and while it is hard to do, with practice and good reaction it's completely viable. @Relaxedstate if you have time, can you test this with perfect IANB?
 
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Relaxedstate

Relaxedstate

PTH|RM Relaxedstate
teh_kingdunch said:
I managed to get 4 fine IANB ( hitting about KF's neck height ) and I was able to trade with iceberg in between. I tested it full screen, that's the most troublesome scenario of us and while it is hard to do, with practice and good reaction it's completely viable. @Relaxedstate if you have time, can you test this with perfect IANB?
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I will test tonight. What is the startup frames of iceberg btw?
 
Phosferrax

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
Relaxedstate said:
Updated post EVO. Long overdue. I will be labing cyborg out a lot in the next month and at SJ.

I still have a ton of fun playing him and his footsies are gdlke compared to Zod lol (although he can make space easily, he still can't use it to open up the opponent for damage, which Zod is gdlke at himself).
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Did you use him at EVO at all?
 
PND OmegaK

PND OmegaK

Drunk and Orderly
What makes you think Bane is 5-5? I don't have much experience against cyborg and haven't played anyone who outright mains him, would just like to hear your thoughts.
 
Immortal Kombat

Immortal Kombat

almost moderate success
PND OmegaK said:
What makes you think Bane is 5-5? I don't have much experience against cyborg and haven't played anyone who outright mains him, would just like to hear your thoughts.
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Honestly man, until you play relaxed state you havent played cyborg. I also learned this the hard way.
 
Relaxedstate

Relaxedstate

PTH|RM Relaxedstate
Phosferrax said:
Did you use him at EVO at all?
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I did, I had a super close set with @Noobe in pools. It was pretty hype. He won 2-1, but I had it won when I dashed his supernova and instead of a b3-b3 for the win, I got a d3 :X

Doomsday win 6-4 (might be 5-5 on larger stages), but I knew he wouldn't have the MU exp
 
Ram

Ram

Buluc Chabtan
Relaxedstate said:
I did, I had a super close set with @Noobe in pools. It was pretty hype. He won 2-1, but I had it won when I dashed his supernova and instead of a b3-b3 for the win, I got a d3 :X

Doomsday win 6-4 (might be 5-5 on larger stages), but I knew he wouldn't have the MU exp
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Was the match recorded at all? Would be great to see
 
KHAOTIC_xWULFx

KHAOTIC_xWULFx

Cyborg's Savior
I JUST UPDATED MY TYM STATUS AND IT SAYS SOMETHING ABOUT MY CYBORG TUTORIAL!! COMING SOON TO A COMPUTER NEAR YOU IS THE BEST CYBORG TUTORIAL YOU HAVE EVER SEEN!!! NOW I KNOW WHATS ON YOUR MIND, "WHEN CAN I WATCH THIS VIDEO?" lol thats an easy question to answer..... AUGUST 15th!!!! be on the lookout :D:D:D:D:D:D:D
 
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