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Breakthrough - Cyrax Rant inc - Cyrax is a monster!

Zionix

AKA Ponkster
OMFG just show the fucking tech.

I understand it's a rant man but jesus, I gave up on watching the video.
Check the videos underneath i posted its there.

The conversion for maximum hit advantage so far is Ex saw - S4 - 21 - 114 net - close ground bomb - B3D4 - NJP Close bomb - Meaty b3
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
I know, shocking considering I'm open to beef with just about anyone.

You remind me of a lad in vanilla Injustice. A little lab monster whom played Bane and spent all day in the lab finding interesting set-ups. A guy who told people "Hey, this character is someone to look out for".

People, even top players, told him it was a pipe dream. That Bane was forever C-tier. That his tech didn't matter. Patch after patch, they constantly determined on their own that Bane had tools he simply couldn't use, and thus was still at the bottom. That guy never ended up giving up though, he kept making tech and doing his lab work. Every patch, every tool that changed, he dove in and swam through the mud that no one else would to try and find tech, anything that could make people see the same character he saw. Some of his tech was amazing, being used by other characters and in open tournament settings. Other tech never saw the light of day.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I respect your tenacity. I can respect your efforts to improve a character that other people have all but written-off. Hell, at the end of the day your rant is everything I wish I could've said about the community back in the day too. You unfortunately don't have the luck of 6 patches of straight buffs like I had, but you have a much better starting point than I could've dreamed of having. Don't let anyone criticize you for putting in work, not ever. Even if they don't find value in your efforts, you're the one creating value where there wasn't before.

The world is built by people whom have spent their whole lives being told they can't, but worked hard until they could.
 

Bruno-NeoSpace

They see me zonin', they hatin'
I've been labbing the combo into hard to blockable and I recorded it to have a better look on Sony Vegas to see how good that HTB is.

EX Saw - Jump In Kick - 2,1 - 1,1,4 - Net - short ground bomb - B3,D4 - late NJP - instant short ground bomb or slightly delayed short ground bomb - B3,D4

- If Cyrax uses an instant bomb into B3,D4 and his opponent does not do long delayed wakeup:
. overhead/low;
. only blocking it or using armor you can stop it (it can break some armors though (even double armors :eek:));
. between 5-7 frames to block it.
- His opponent does long delayed wakeup = overhead/low and between 10-12 frames to block it.

- If Cyrax uses a slightly delayed bomb into B3,D4 and his opponent does not do long delayed wakeup:
. overhead/low;
. blocking it, using armor and tech roll into jump you can stop Cyrax;
. between 1-3 frames to block it;
- His opponent does long delayed wakeup = low/overhead/low and between 3-5 frames to block it.

Conclusion:

If Cyrax's opponent does not do delayed wakeup = the HTB will be harder to block.
If Cyrax's opponent does delayed wakeup = the HTB will be a 50/50 that both options launches.

@scarsunseen @Zionix @PND_Mustard @False God Confirmed
 

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
i find it quite shocking that someone at nrs would want to make triborg "awesome" (read: better than other characters). if they are not even aiming for perfect balance in the production, it would explain a lot of their problems...
By awesome, I took it that he meant not better - but just really fun to play as - and he became better as a result. Making a character fun takes great awareness and foresight. Making him balanced takes even more. I don't think they question his motives anymore. They recognize it as passion that might need to be tempered by a team that understands the metas through equal awareness and foresight. These guys are pretty smart, but this is quite a balancing act. Everyone knows what its like to have underestimated parts before it becomes clear and I think that is what happened here.

We all have our likes and dislikes. If I had any power, Tremor and Quan Chi would be even more AWESOME and Shinnok would lose his "I wanna touch your pee pee" fighting stance.
 
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GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
no but intelligence holds it back. and that should be required for such a job.
Guys who go into this field love the games they make. If not for that, they wouldn't be able to dedicate every waking moment to its success.

I know enough to know that I don't know enough to judge the decisions made by the people making the games I love effectively. It would be like a star gazer with a telescope arguing quantum physics with Stephen Hawking. Our knowledge bases aren't comparable in quantity, quality, scope, and they really aren't even really in the same fields.
 

Saltea Moonspell

"And the mustard, is off the Hotdog" TB.
I've been labbing the combo into hard to blockable and I recorded it to have a better look on Sony Vegas to see how good that HTB is.

EX Saw - Jump In Kick - 2,1 - 1,1,4 - Net - short ground bomb - B3,D4 - late NJP - instant short ground bomb or slightly delayed short ground bomb - B3,D4

- If Cyrax uses an instant bomb into B3,D4 and his opponent does not do long delayed wakeup:
. overhead/low;
. only blocking it or using armor you can stop it (it can break some armors though (even double armors :eek:));
. between 5-7 frames to block it.
- His opponent does long delayed wakeup = overhead/low and between 10-12 frames to block it.

- If Cyrax uses a slightly delayed bomb into B3,D4 and his opponent does not do long delayed wakeup:
. overhead/low;
. blocking it, using armor and tech roll into jump you can stop Cyrax;
. between 1-3 frames to block it;
- His opponent does long delayed wakeup = low/overhead/low and between 3-5 frames to block it.

Conclusion:

If Cyrax's opponent does not do delayed wakeup = the HTB will be harder to block.
If Cyrax's opponent does delayed wakeup = the HTB will be a 50/50 that both options launches.

@scarsunseen @Zionix @PND_Mustard @False God Confirmed
Hey , just a quick question!

Is it me, or there are way to many scenarios to figure on the go ? How do I know how to use proper escape ?
 

Bruno-NeoSpace

They see me zonin', they hatin'
Hey , just a quick question!

Is it me, or there are way to many scenarios to figure on the go ? How do I know how to use proper escape ?
You gotta pay attention to see if Cyrax is doing an instant bomb or delayed bomb... if he is doing an instant bomb, you gotta do a fast armor or try to block the HTB; if he is doing a delayed bomb, you gotta do a fast armor or try to block the HTB or tech roll into jump (but Cyrax can make a read and use NJP against your jump). BUT, being honestly, it is very hard to see Cyrax doing instant bomb or delayed bomb... so... you gotta guess :eek:
 

Saltea Moonspell

"And the mustard, is off the Hotdog" TB.
You gotta pay attention to see if Cyrax is doing an instant bomb or delayed bomb... if he is doing an instant bomb, you gotta do a fast armor or try to block the HTB; if he is doing a delayed bomb, you gotta do a fast armor or try to block the HTB or tech roll into jump (but Cyrax can make a read and use NJP against your jump). BUT, being honestly, it is very hard to see Cyrax doing instant bomb or delayed bomb... so... you gotta guess :eek:

Excellent! Nothing left to say but: He needs it. Reminds me Cyraxs MK9 corner game.
 
Reactions: GAV
Man you really don't understand game dev & balancing
Guys who go into this field love the games they make. If not for that, they wouldn't be able to dedicate every waking moment to its success.
I know enough to know that I don't know enough to judge the decisions made by the people making the games I love effectively. It would be like a star gazer with a telescope arguing quantum physics with Stephen Hawking. Our knowledge bases aren't comparable in quantity, quality, scope, and they really aren't even really in the same fields.
concerning this specific issue, there is not much to understand. if youre not aiming for the perfect balance, youre doing it wrong. and if you wanna make a "super fun" character with bazillions of htb's and plus frames, any dev should be able to see that this cries "balance problem".
 

haketh

Noob
Perfect balance is a myth & for the kind of person who enjoys plain vanilla ice cream & a glass of water
 

Zionix

AKA Ponkster
I know, shocking considering I'm open to beef with just about anyone.

You remind me of a lad in vanilla Injustice. A little lab monster whom played Bane and spent all day in the lab finding interesting set-ups. A guy who told people "Hey, this character is someone to look out for".

People, even top players, told him it was a pipe dream. That Bane was forever C-tier. That his tech didn't matter. Patch after patch, they constantly determined on their own that Bane had tools he simply couldn't use, and thus was still at the bottom. That guy never ended up giving up though, he kept making tech and doing his lab work. Every patch, every tool that changed, he dove in and swam through the mud that no one else would to try and find tech, anything that could make people see the same character he saw. Some of his tech was amazing, being used by other characters and in open tournament settings. Other tech never saw the light of day.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I respect your tenacity. I can respect your efforts to improve a character that other people have all but written-off. Hell, at the end of the day your rant is everything I wish I could've said about the community back in the day too. You unfortunately don't have the luck of 6 patches of straight buffs like I had, but you have a much better starting point than I could've dreamed of having. Don't let anyone criticize you for putting in work, not ever. Even if they don't find value in your efforts, you're the one creating value where there wasn't before.

The world is built by people whom have spent their whole lives being told they can't, but worked hard until they could.
Thanks, I feel bad about my rant though, I didn't want to upset anyone I just felt frustrated that this stuff hadn't been found sooner and I felt like if more people were interested and labbing he wouldn't be written off in so many peoples mind. Nobody is obligated to do anything though, so its none of my business what individuals do with their time.

I'm happy to tag certain people if there's something new, I don't do it because of the backlash from people who feel forced to watch it or use it. A mystery to me, but again, it's not my place.
 

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
Moderator
I know, shocking considering I'm open to beef with just about anyone.

You remind me of a lad in vanilla Injustice. A little lab monster whom played Bane and spent all day in the lab finding interesting set-ups. A guy who told people "Hey, this character is someone to look out for".

People, even top players, told him it was a pipe dream. That Bane was forever C-tier. That his tech didn't matter. Patch after patch, they constantly determined on their own that Bane had tools he simply couldn't use, and thus was still at the bottom. That guy never ended up giving up though, he kept making tech and doing his lab work. Every patch, every tool that changed, he dove in and swam through the mud that no one else would to try and find tech, anything that could make people see the same character he saw. Some of his tech was amazing, being used by other characters and in open tournament settings. Other tech never saw the light of day.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I respect your tenacity. I can respect your efforts to improve a character that other people have all but written-off. Hell, at the end of the day your rant is everything I wish I could've said about the community back in the day too. You unfortunately don't have the luck of 6 patches of straight buffs like I had, but you have a much better starting point than I could've dreamed of having. Don't let anyone criticize you for putting in work, not ever. Even if they don't find value in your efforts, you're the one creating value where there wasn't before.

The world is built by people whom have spent their whole lives being told they can't, but worked hard until they could.
I feel like this guy's name might rhyme with "BoomBawks"
 

Wigy

There it is...
Someone should do a compilation of the time doombawks has talked about his bane story at any opportunity

:DOGE

They should do a film adaptation with morgan freeman :DOGE:DOGE
 

PND_Ketchup

"More deadly than the dawn"
Official ESL Gaming
I don't see how a personal attack looks good on your part, or how it contributes to this discussion. I go to tournaments to support the community and meet friends. I am trying to show what Cyrax is capable of on paper; not boost my own ego.
I don't see how anything I said is even remotely a personal attack.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Thanks, I feel bad about my rant though, I didn't want to upset anyone I just felt frustrated that this stuff hadn't been found sooner and I felt like if more people were interested and labbing he wouldn't be written off in so many peoples mind. Nobody is obligated to do anything though, so its none of my business what individuals do with their time.

I'm happy to tag certain people if there's something new, I don't do it because of the backlash from people who feel forced to watch it or use it. A mystery to me, but again, it's not my place.
Never regret what you say. People who go back on their words are the worst kind of people. You're not that kind of person.

Own it. People will get upset, but people come and go. The moment you buckle, the moment you pander to the masses, to withdraw even an inch and say "I should not have said that", that's the moment when those people become right. That's the moment you betray your nature, the nature of someone who stands in the face of adversity and keeps working, knowing full well they may never find anything.

It may sound hard-headed, even blind in some ways, but we lab monsters are a stubborn breed. We're the kind of people who know our characters, deeper than anyone, and it's frustrating. I know, all too well, how frustrating it is. To see people outside of your character looking in, to see people even within your character community not hold that same passion you do. To not share that deep-welled desire to simply see your character, to see your tech, being accepted and appreciated. To stand on the edge of infinity, on the edge of limitless potential, plagued forever by the thoughts of "If I could just do this one frame faster. If I could just move that little bit quicker. If I could just find something, anything, to get people to see this character for the depth and potential I know he has."... To have all of our hopes, our dreams, riding on just shaving one frame off somewhere, anywhere.

I won't pretend to know you, friend. However, I'd like to think you're somewhat like me, or at least the better parts of me. I may be a maverick, hell I'm downright annoying, far too proud, and even aggressive when it comes to some things... But I'm also passionate, determined, and everything I did was for my community, for my people. I worked, I argued, I damned myself to the deepest reaches of hell because if I didn't, if I let go of that rope, I was afraid no one else would grab hold of it. That thought alone sustained me, got me through people thinking less of me, and even now when I look at these old hands I see the marks that rope left it pains me... But never for a moment, even now, have I considered loosening my grip.

I couldn't be satisfied with today like everyone else. Only the promise of tomorrow could stir me, and there is always a tomorrow. Today becomes history, it becomes the past, it becomes a goalpost people reached and stopped at. You and I, we've never seen our goalposts. They are so far off, we don't even know if they're still there anymore. We don't have the luxury of stopping, because we'll get swept away the moment we try. That's why I say, don't apologize. Don't go back, because that'll stop you from ever going forward again.

Never apologize. Improve. Get better. Never make the mistake again, and reach greater heights than anyone ever thought possible. Break yourself and build back stronger.

Never stop moving. Never stop growing. If they say you're wrong, keep working until you become right. Believe in yourself, believe in your work, even if it seems like no one else will.
 

PND_Ketchup

"More deadly than the dawn"
Official ESL Gaming
You unfortunately don't have the luck of 6 patches of straight buffs like I had, but you have a much better starting point than I could've dreamed of having.
I don't understand this at all.

Bane's start was rocky because he was literally GARBAGE on launch. It took patch after patch to finally make him decent, and in the end, overbuffed into the craziness he turned out to be.

Cyrax has received major nerfs patch after patch, and even in the latest patch, nerfed him once more due to the mechanical changes hurting him more than helping him. This is not a comparison you can make at all IMO.
 
and this is everything?
take away the iceball and demo sonya had everything he has and better. i'm not saying he shouldn't have been toned down but dude didn't have everything. everyone was so dramatic and normally when people are that dramatic, you can still here the voice of reason saying "yo cill he's nasty but let's just calm down for now". but as soon as reo said he's broke gameover
Aren't you the same person who said alien wasn't broken on release?