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Raiden Match Footage

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
Seemed like he did a pretty good job spacing his F2 and F4 as well. I also like how he used Raiden's projectiles, he avoided getting punished too much on those. You're right, his use of F3 was really nice to see.

His B31 started getting blown up a bit more as the game went on, seemed like from about middle of the video on Raiden had a harder time getting his offense going once HB started FB reversing it.

What do you think of the Noob SD matchup? Just watching the video it didn't seem terrible to me.
Haven’t played many SD noobs but I’m actually learning SD now so maybe I can get more info that way. Seems alright with me but I will suck at most MUs personally because I can’t FB to save my life. :(
 
Spamming the ever living crap out of DF2 when buffed does wonders. It’s nice chunky damage that adds up especially when people keep trying to poke out of your buttons and you cancel into DF2 for the nice knockdown. DF2 on hit allows for free quick charge set up or one dash gets you into F4 range.
For the most part yes, but just be careful not to spam it a bit TOO much, because certain characters with very long "pokes" can punish you if they react quick enough. It's good practice to scare them into "expecting" the DF2 so they hold block, then creep in for the throw.

If there's one thing I still miss from the pre patch Raijin though, it's his longer range Electric Current Staff poke. The Amplified version's reach definitely got nerfed, as did the two hit pattern (used to be Double Low; after the August patch, it's Low, Mid).

And to SparkySanders, cool man! I'll look for ya when I log on later today.
 

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
For the most part yes, but just be careful not to spam it a bit TOO much, because certain characters with very long "pokes" can punish you if they react quick enough. It's good practice to scare them into "expecting" the DF2 so they hold block, then creep in for the throw.
I don’t get what you’re saying. When buffed the DF2 is -5 with pushback. No move in the game can punish it as far as I know. Unless they read you trying to move/press buttons and throw out an unreactable long range move to punish (unless that’s what you’re referring to). The stuff about staggering into throws is spot on though.
 
Yeah, the whole point of charged DF2 is that it makes your bnb completely safe. Which is surely the selling point of Raijin (now that Release is much less special).

Edit: after most strings DF2 can be flawless blocked, which would be a valid criticism... except that b12 is safe from this, and b31 is safe/pushy on block anyway, so who cares.
 
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Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
Yeah, the whole point of charged DF2 is that it makes your bnb completely safe. Which is surely the selling point of Raijin (now that Release is much less special).

Edit: after most strings DF2 can be flawless blocked, which would be a valid criticism... except that b12 is safe from this, and b31 is safe/pushy on block anyway, so who cares.
There’s actually a sizeable gap if you’re trying to do poke into DF2. Many characters can just D2 out or just poke out. Kind of sucks because you lose a useful counter-poke and in TW doing poke into storm cell can’t be interrupted. Kind of wish they could buff this aspect of Raijin but I’m afraid that might make him a bit too good.
 
I don't see what that has to do with anything. Pokes are pokes, they can hardly be expected to be followable by any silly stuff. That Storm Cell can be yoloed out after d1 is hardly the baseline to compare other moves to, or something to base your strategy on.
 
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Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
I don't see what that has to do with anything. Pokes are pokes, they can hardly be expected to be followable by any silly stuff. That Storm Cell can be yoloed out after d1 is hardly the baseline to compare other moves to, or something to base your strategy on.
It's like Shang's D4~DB1 in warlock, or D1~Kano ball, or D1~shoulder charge in night wolf . You can do it as sort of a way to make ppl respect you after your blocked poke. Stuff you can throw out once in a while to scare the opponent not to press. Of course you shouldn't base your strategy with this, especially in Raijin when you can do string into buffed DF2 and practically reset neutral. However, being able to cancel poke into DF2 on block without a gap is pretty huge especially since there's so little risk involved, maybe that's why there's such a huge gap there. :)
 

ExpectFlames

Lord of embers

Anybody seen footage of Sonic playing Raiden lately?
I was thinking what if Paulos vision for the character revolved around his spacing relationship with the opponent purely. What if raidens buttons are an elaborate ruse that make you think hes really bad, when in reality if your only pressing buttons to hit another player free instead of on block that's when he shines. That's the only fucking way raiden makes any sense which is totally not surprising that it would be fox who considers this.

Honestly I think raidens bullshit and fox and bored.
 

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
I was thinking what if Paulos vision for the character revolved around his spacing relationship with the opponent purely. What if raidens buttons are an elaborate ruse that make you think hes really bad, when in reality if your only pressing buttons to hit another player free instead of on block that's when he shines. That's the only fucking way raiden makes any sense which is totally not surprising that it would be fox who considers this.

Honestly I think raidens bullshit and fox and bored.
I mean, it’s been clear at the start that Raiden has always been a whiff punisher. Most of his options on block are to create space and bait buttons from the opponent for Raiden to punish. His frames on block are bad but his frames on hit are great. He has good control of the mid range with longe range buttons and forward advancing Mids that are reasonably fast. People have been saying this since day 1.
 

ExpectFlames

Lord of embers
I mean, it’s been clear at the start that Raiden has always been a whiff punisher. Most of his options on block are to create space and bait buttons from the opponent for Raiden to punish. His frames on block are bad but his frames on hit are great. He has good control of the mid range with longe range buttons and forward advancing Mids that are reasonably fast. People have been saying this since day 1.
I think what your saying and what I'm saying are two completely different things. Whif punishing within the flow of the game is a normal aspect of fighting games in general right, it's hard to describe what I'm talking about. It seems to me that the character design is to succeed by doing nothing. I took like 3 months off from this game came back today I noticed in my inability to remeber bnbs I found myself doing nothing not playing footsies not preparing a trip guard or whiff punish legitimately standing still only reacting to what my opponent did like a turn based game. Mixed results but maybe I'm exaggerating a bit I dont know. it's just the design philosophy is really the antithesis to most fighters but I wouldnt say it's not in line with the theme of this game. Raiden is a great character everywhere except where it matters in game. Theoretically hes amazing as a whif punisher practically hes shit.
I think when it came to raiden whoever designed him thought they were so fucking smart, and tried to out smart the community. They kinda played themselves.
 

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
I think what your saying and what I'm saying are two completely different things. Whif punishing within the flow of the game is a normal aspect of fighting games in general right, it's hard to describe what I'm talking about. It seems to me that the character design is to succeed by doing nothing. I took like 3 months off from this game came back today I noticed in my inability to remeber bnbs I found myself doing nothing not playing footsies not preparing a trip guard or whiff punish legitimately standing still only reacting to what my opponent did like a turn based game. Mixed results but maybe I'm exaggerating a bit I dont know. it's just the design philosophy is really the antithesis to most fighters but I wouldnt say it's not in line with the theme of this game. Raiden is a great character everywhere except where it matters in game. Theoretically hes amazing as a whif punisher practically hes shit.
I think when it came to raiden whoever designed him thought they were so fucking smart, and tried to out smart the community. They kinda played themselves.
Eh... I don’t get it... but... sure...?
 

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
Here we go. Sonic Fox is playing Raijin. Reversal punishing 111 every time is super great in this MU. Basically rendering the sand trap mixup useless because we can punish both options easily if we can get the fuzzy down.
 

MagicMan357

"130 ms is more legit than Labbing" - TYM
Sonicfox is using raiden correctly, not surprising at all. Just cant wait for the "its because its sonicfox!"
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
I'll believe Raiden is "S" tier.....
when Sonic or anyone for that matter wins a major with him. lol
 

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
Fox again:


Just solid play, great whiff punishing and stays safe all match using DF2.
I noticed he would use discharge midscreen when he anticipates movement or jumps to shut down the opponent. Seems to work pretty well and you’re only -4. On hit is guarantees another QC setup
 

Marlow

Champion
Yeah, he was using discharge as a pretty good space control tool.

I get why a pro player could really dig Raiden. Solid damage, great corner carry, able to easily hit confirm into being safe with DF2 or going for damage, having a great reversal tool with discharge, and Fox also did a good job of using Jump Superman to escape the corner.

On the other hand, Daph was just talking in his video the other day that while he thinks Raijin is really good, he hasn't had much success with him in tournament yet, so who knows how the character holds up in an actual tournament setting.
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
To be fair I think there's a fine line between really good and top 5 though. It's Raiden's best variation but I don't think it's top 5 calibur honestly. If he had the teleport in Raijin It would be more convincing honestly. One of the last few big tourneys nobody even picked Raiden.
 

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
Fox against Foxy, Raijin VS Infinite Warden. Seems Fox was serious when he said he was trying out Rajin. Similar stuff to the first video he posted.