General/Other - Raiden Raiden Character Variations Discussion

[Chaosphere]

Then consider his inability to escape pressure freely

Can you explain what you mean here? Ex-shocker and ex-vicinity blast are really good for countering pressure and both lead to full combo. Not to mention his 5 frame f1. 5 frame mid. He can hit confirm into a combo in thunder god with it. Or he can whiff punish with f1~ex-shocker in the other variations. F1 is great in the neutral game. Pretty much interrupts anything they want to do.

 

[Chaosphere]

I just meant how everything in general is way more unsafe in this game. But yes I feel raidens "teleport" variation has the worst teleport in the game. And his "trap variation" has no setups lol. Thunder God is very good but I don't think one variation is enough.

First, who the hell told you MOS has no setups? The hell? You certainly didn't come to this conclusion on your own. I wouldn't believe that anyone would be so arrogant as to come to the conclusion that an entire variation based on setups has no setups within the first week of the game lol.

Second, the regular teleport isn't supposed to be a get of jail free card. I don't know why you expect it to be. Ex-tele is certainly a get out of jail free card not to mention a combo extender.

Guys... STOP DRAWING CONCLUSIONS THIS EARLY. You'll do nothing but make this forum a shit fest. It's the exact same thing that happened to the raiden forums in mk9.

 

[Chaosphere]

To answer your question, yes, you can control where it goes after invisible. The problem is that's all it is...invisibility. As far as 8 different ways to TP, counting EX doesn't really add anything, just makes start up almost instant. Recovery appears to be the same from my testing.

No. Recovery is 7 frames on ex-teleport. Look at your moves list.

The biggest issue is that they were faaaaaar too conservative w/ his startup / recovery. Once players know that raiden's teleport is weak to pressure, all of those mind games go out the window. All his teleports can be damaged out of while he's disappearing and after he reappears, he likes to fix his hair and check the time before starting to attack. I've teleported behind people while they were mid-combo string and they were blocking before I could get even a poke in. Even teleporting behind subzero while he's grabbing his ice clone to throw and sub recovers before raiden can attack. That's bad.

That's not what regular teleport is designed for. You don't just throw it out there like in mk9. There are going to be specific ways to use it to get out of certain things. The main thing to remember is that ex-tele is the move you're looking for here. It's ridiculous. More ridiculous than in mk9.

He can't take pressure and if facing a zoner, projectiles will knock him out of teleport every time. They didn't even give the variation opportunity for a skilled raiden to use teleports to avoid projectiles. I'm sure they were still scared of Raiden breaking the game and whining about TP being OP like in early MK9, hence why they threw it into only one variation.

Why do you think he can't take pressure? What does that even mean? Stop mashing teleport. That's dumb. You want to blow up a projectile? Ex-tele man.

 

[SirRaven]

No. Recovery is 7 frames on ex-teleport. Look at your moves list.

That's not what regular teleport is designed for. You don't just throw it out there like in mk9. There are going to be specific ways to use it to get out of certain things. The main thing to remember is that ex-tele is the move you're looking for here. It's ridiculous. More ridiculous than in mk9.

Why do you think he can't take pressure? What does that even mean? Stop mashing teleport. That's dumb. You want to blow up a projectile? Ex-tele man.

I stand corrected on EX teleport, I hadn't used it as a combo extender or offense. I had only tested with positional ex teleport and the recovery didn't seem any different. I didn't bother with moves list frame data because it's incorrect for so many moves that I don't want to make judgments based on that.

To your second point, what is regular teleport designed for then? Not for offense, not for defense, not for escape. It's simply for mobility in zoning at above average distance. Take quick rush pressure characters + run and even that becomes useless. I'm also looking at these moves from the viewpoint of skilled players, not casual confuse a newbie mentality. In high level play, regular teleport will have ZERO utility in its current form. With a variation based solely on teleport as its talent, that is poor design.

To your last point, who said anything about mashing teleport? I was commenting on the fact that it is so conservative a skilled player couldn't even use it to avoid projectiles. Something you would consider a move called T.E.L.E.P.O.R.T. to do. Your argument is that EX is awesome. Sure, that's fine...but that's like telling sub zero he only has one variation with slide and that slide is only useful if metered. See the flaw in your logic? Add on top the fact that his only 30+% comboability comes from linking with EX shocker or upward fly and you've got Raiden gasping for meter.

As for your comment, "why do you think he can't take pressure?" Play a skilled rush down pressure player and record the match for us all to see. I'm not being facetious, I'm genuinely interested in seeing what you might be doing different to make you think he's capable of handling the situations that countless raiden mains before me have also mentioned are his achilles heel.

Displacer isn't broken but it is fundamentally leaning towards ultra conservative design.

 

[Barrogh]

In addition to the above, I repeat that what troubles me the most is that MoS/DP exclusive moves are basically worse versions of already existing tools of other characters who seem to have more solid base overall. It may look easier to compare them to TG, but comparisons with other characters are just as valid and make me wonder what exactly I am missing here.

Anyway, while I am dreaming of something interesting to happen with those variations, another blowup: I've noticed that stamina-consuming teleports have their startup listed as 0 while having same recovery, making their overall duration same as MK9 teleport (supposedly). Well, I tried to test this stuff but it seems that it's just a mistake. I haven't noticed any speed increase, and it's just as easy to stuff its startup.

 

[Chaosphere]

I stand corrected on EX teleport, I hadn't used it as a combo extender or offense. I had only tested with positional ex teleport and the recovery didn't seem any different. I didn't bother with moves list frame data because it's incorrect for so many moves that I don't want to make judgments based on that.

To your second point, what is regular teleport designed for then? Not for offense, not for defense, not for escape. It's simply for mobility in zoning at above average distance. Take quick rush pressure characters + run and even that becomes useless. I'm also looking at these moves from the viewpoint of skilled players, not casual confuse a newbie mentality. In high level play, regular teleport will have ZERO utility in its current form. With a variation based solely on teleport as its talent, that is poor design.

To your last point, who said anything about mashing teleport? I was commenting on the fact that it is so conservative a skilled player couldn't even use it to avoid projectiles. Something you would consider a move called T.E.L.E.P.O.R.T. to do. Your argument is that EX is awesome. Sure, that's fine...but that's like telling sub zero he only has one variation with slide and that slide is only useful if metered. See the flaw in your logic? Add on top the fact that his only 30+% comboability comes from linking with EX shocker or upward fly and you've got Raiden gasping for meter.

As for your comment, "why do you think he can't take pressure?" Play a skilled rush down pressure player and record the match for us all to see. I'm not being facetious, I'm genuinely interested in seeing what you might be doing different to make you think he's capable of handling the situations that countless raiden mains before me have also mentioned are his achilles heel.

Displacer isn't broken but it is fundamentally leaning towards ultra conservative design.

Yeah I played against PPJ the other night for about an hour and he was showing me all kinds of stuff some of the characters can do. He's a full time tester there. He smashed me but I was able to get out of all sorts of pressure with ex-shocker and ex~vb. Sometimes backdash.

What does "skilled rush down pressure player" mean? A character can only do what the frame data allows it to do. This is still week one. All you have to do is go into training mode man. The problem is that we aren't all super familiar with the pressure that everyone has so everything is going to seem OP the first few times you run into it. The key is going into training mode and record that character doing a bunch of crazy stuff so you just KNOW what your options are during pressure.

I was playing against a really good pumped up jax last night and he was smashing me the first 10 games. Didn't take long to figure out what to do. And it's not like I'm daigo or anything.

 

[brizzle]

First, who the hell told you MOS has no setups? The hell? You certainly didn't come to this conclusion on your own. I wouldn't believe that anyone would be so arrogant as to come to the conclusion that an entire variation based on setups has no setups within the first week of the game lol.

Second, the regular teleport isn't supposed to be a get of jail free card. I don't know why you expect it to be. Ex-tele is certainly a get out of jail free card not to mention a combo extender.

Guys... STOP DRAWING CONCLUSIONS THIS EARLY. You'll do nothing but make this forum a shit fest. It's the exact same thing that happened to the raiden forums in mk9.

you keep saying mos has set ups yet you don't show them. No one does. You say waste a bar of meter to use ex orbs after b1, 4, which if midscreen, pushes them outside of the orbs for no setup. And is pointless to use in the corner when you can get advantage without meter.

The only setup anyone has found that's worth using is the knockdown corner one that already needs an orb out. Also is outclassed by TG anti wakeup teck that is easier to pull of.

Oh Displacer is great too. I'll use meter to punish a projectile, then I'll use another meter on my kombo. There's two meters for a single punish woo hoo. Mk9 teleport wasn't a get out of jail free card either, but it could wiff and projectile punish. So it was you know, useful.

I'd say it's pretty arrogant to say everyone but you doesnt know what their talking about.

 

[SirRaven]

What does "skilled rush down pressure player" mean?

Characters that excel at rushing and putting pressure. Since raiden's low pokes are too slow, his fast poke is too high, he's open to a whole host of issues. I don't know, maybe I"m just dealing with a faulty controller, lag or some other reason that my counters are incapable of penetrating pressure. Sure I can ex armor through some of it but that's for one or two combo strings.

As an example, playing a friend using kotal he was spamming f2, d3. Kotal's d3 is crazy fast...maybe especially so after his uppercut. We were practicing the instance where kotal would rush you down and not have a chance to avoid it through conventional means other than blocking. Even after blocking the d3 and push block putting him out of range, any other poke or attack he does overrides Raiden's. Try to jump, f2 and get combo'd. Try to teleport, get combo'd. Try to block, repeat sequence. Try to retaliate, get combo'd.

That is the raiden black hole of pressure play I'm describing that he has difficulty escaping. Anyone with quick moves that have quick followups make it a nightmare for him to do anything but EX out of it.

 

[Chaosphere]

you keep saying mos has set ups yet you don't show them. No one does. You say waste a bar of meter to use ex orbs after b1, 4, which if midscreen, pushes them outside of the orbs for no setup. And is pointless to use in the corner when you can get advantage without meter.

The only setup anyone has found that's worth using is the knockdown corner one that already needs an orb out. Also is outclassed by TG anti wakeup teck that is easier to pull of.

Oh Displacer is great too. I'll use meter to punish a projectile, then I'll use another meter on my kombo. There's two meters for a single punish woo hoo. Mk9 teleport wasn't a get out of jail free card either, but it could wiff and projectile punish. So it was you know, useful.

I'd say it's pretty arrogant to say everyone but you doesnt know what their talking about.

I dunno man... if you plan on playing a whole match without using meter I think you're going to have a hard time with any character.

b14~ex orbs is great in the corner. And you can end combos with a hard knockdown into regular orbs.

As far as ex-tele goes... you use it in situations where you know it will work. You don't just throw it out. If you know it will punish, then do it... full combo. You can use it to get out of frame traps, wakeup pressure, projectiles... maybe more shit.

And I never once claimed I have everything figured out and nobody else does. What I said was that it's arrogant to come to conclusions week 1 into a game. This happens every single time a game comes out and it does nothing but hurt meta progression when someone comes in and says "this is shit" and people listen/stop researching.

Basically, we'll never figure anything out if we just start concluding that master of storms is ass and everyone just goes gung ho with thunder god.

PPJ showed me a bunch of stuff. I can't even remember everything he showed me as he was kind of doing the character roulette thing. But he did a couple sick setups with master of storms.

What I'm saying is... don't give up so easily.

 

[Chaosphere]

Characters that excel at rushing and putting pressure. Since raiden's low pokes are too slow, his fast poke is too high, he's open to a whole host of issues. I don't know, maybe I"m just dealing with a faulty controller, lag or some other reason that my counters are incapable of penetrating pressure. Sure I can ex armor through some of it but that's for one or two combo strings.

As an example, playing a friend using kotal he was spamming f2, d3. Kotal's d3 is crazy fast...maybe especially so after his uppercut. We were practicing the instance where kotal would rush you down and not have a chance to avoid it through conventional means other than blocking. Even after blocking the d3 and push block putting him out of range, any other poke or attack he does overrides Raiden's. Try to jump, f2 and get combo'd. Try to teleport, get combo'd. Try to block, repeat sequence. Try to retaliate, get combo'd.

That is the raiden black hole of pressure play I'm describing that he has difficulty escaping. Anyone with quick moves that have quick followups make it a nightmare for him to do anything but EX out of it.

None of kotal's strings are negative on block? Some characters' strength is their poking game. I'd say kotal is one of them.

But stick to f1. 5 frame mid that combos. Ridiculous.

 

[brizzle]

F1,2 is crazy good. The recovery on block is very fast. It's easy to mix them up with a throw. If they anticipate, and try to poke out, you can go the whole f1,2,b2 for full combo. Finally if they block all that and try to counter, you can end the block string with a regular shocker. Shocker even gives you more pushback then the fully held b2 would and makes it nearly unpunishable at -6. Raiden lacks straight up frame advantage, but he still has good pressure and great punishing strings

 

[Barrogh]

F1,2 is crazy good. The recovery on block is very fast. It's easy to mix them up with a throw. If they anticipate, and try to poke out, you can go the whole f1,2,b2 for full combo. Finally if they block all that and try to counter, you can end the block string with a regular shocker. Shocker even gives you more pushback then the fully held b2 would and makes it nearly unpunishable at -6. Raiden lacks straight up frame advantage, but he still has good pressure and great punishing strings

I'm not sure if that was posted in the context of discussion, but if so, I gotta remind that f12 is TG-exclusive. Which kind of doesn't make sense to me.
Nobody says that TG is bad though.

 

[brizzle]

I'm not sure if that was posted in the context of discussion, but if so, I gotta remind that f12 is TG-exclusive. Which kind of doesn't make sense to me.
Nobody says that TG is bad though.

Just agreeing at how good f1 and f1,2 is for TG. I think raiden does just fine vs rushdown chars in all variations

 

[Chaosphere]

Just agreeing at how good f1 and f1,2 is for TG. I think raiden does just fine vs rushdown chars in all variations

Totally agree.

 

[Vilén]

Saying MoS is shit is... shit. Orbs come out stupid fast and recover very fast. Every knockdown will basically net you an orb. I'm just not 100% sure on what that shit is really supposed to do for you in the long run and I won't be the dude to find out because that's not my playstyle.

"Too early" or not, I will bet money that Displacer isn't that awesome at anything other than having no meter for breakers.

Here's my logic on this:
Thunder God: enhanced chip damage and combo damage. DELIVERED
Master of Storms: Lightning traps, they're definitely there. No one's in the lab for it yet because it's advanced tech which nobody seems to like researching right away.
Displacer: machine built to burn meter. I don't think this is like a bottom tier variation or anything but like... damn man I can't use the regular teleport for anything with any success other than if my opponent is just running clean at me and I can get the teleport off before they get to me.

Will restate myself: not asking for regular teleport to be MK9 teleport. EX Teleport should be that, and it is, on crack. However under zero circumstances should a character based on a teleport require meter to blow up fireballs with the teleport. Like no goddamn motherfucking shit.

All I'm asking for is a slight reduction in regular teleport recovery. Don't need it to work in combos, don't need to be at a point where my opponent needs to be a zen master to punish it on a read. I would like to be able to run away with it and get around fireballs without getting low-poked for it or straight smashed.

Just not understanding the logic here. NRS went ham with almost ALL the variations in this game. This one variation for Raiden just feels way too focus grouped.

 

[mrtom]

I've been messing around with MoS and I can definitely see potential. Once you start understanding how to use the orbs it changes the entire dynamic of the match. It gives you much more control over your opponents movement and option. I have found it much more difficult vs some characters, like Melina but I've only just started using it so it might just require a different approach. From what I've learned so far is that getting the first orb out safely is so important, getting both out safely is ideal but even if you get hit throwing out the second orb you can still dish out more damage than you received.
I've gotten hit by jump attacks but the second orb hits and they remained stunned long enough for you to net a combo.

 

[Raidenwins]

I've been messing around with MoS and I can definitely see potential. Once you start understanding how to use the orbs it changes the entire dynamic of the match. It gives you much more control over your opponents movement and option. I have found it much more difficult vs some characters, like Melina but I've only just started using it so it might just require a different approach. From what I've learned so far is that getting the first orb out safely is so important, getting both out safely is ideal but even if you get hit throwing out the second orb you can still dish out more damage than you received.
I've gotten hit by jump attacks but the second orb hits and they remained stunned long enough for you to net a combo.

Can you give some specific set-ups? I haven't spent too much time with MoS yet, but one tactic occurred to me yesterday while taking a walk (which, incidentally, is when I do some of my best thinking). It's just theory at this point, but I plan on testing it out asap, tonight or tomorrow maybe.

Anyway, this is what I was thinking: as soon as the round starts, or at any point during the round when the opponent is far away from you enough as to not be able to immediately do a punish, or upon a knockdown, do a Back orb. Then do an Air Electric Fly and as soon as you land, do another Back orb. Of course, this is dependent on many factors, such as the opponent reading you and rushing you down so you can't fire off that second orb, etc., but it's an idea anyway. If this works though now you have a pretty long, maybe even full screen, Static Trap.

Another thing I wanted to say is that I am with Chaosphere on the whole wait and see approach, as far as judging the usefulness of Raiden's variations. Yea, I can totally see how his regular Teleport would appear to have very little use right now and I am a little bit bothered by the fact his single orbs in MoS have no hitbox, but it's still only week 2 since the game came out. I think we should give it at least a month to evolve, let some majors take place, and see what set-ups and uses (if any) people come up with, for all of Raiden's tools, before we jump to conclusions.

 

[mrtom]

I just noticed that he has some great normalsMoS

Can you give some specific set-ups? I haven't spent too much time with MoS yet, but one tactic occurred to me yesterday while taking a walk (which, incidentally, is when I do some of my best thinking). It's just theory at this point, but I plan on testing it out asap, tonight or tomorrow maybe.

Anyway, this is what I was thinking: as soon as the round starts, or at any point during the round when the opponent is far away from you enough as to not be able to immediately do a punish, or upon a knockdown, do a Back orb. Then do an Air Electric Fly and as soon as you land, do another Back orb. Of course, this is dependent on many factors, such as the opponent reading you and rushing you down so you can't fire off that second orb, etc., but it's an idea anyway. If this works though now you have a pretty long, maybe even full screen, Static Trap.

Another thing I wanted to say is that I am with Chaosphere on the whole wait and see approach, as far as judging the usefulness of Raiden's variations. Yea, I can totally see how his regular Teleport would appear to have very little use right now and I am a little bit bothered by the fact his single orbs in MoS have no hitbox, but it's still only week 2 since the game came out. I think we should give it at least a month to evolve, let some majors take place, and see what set-ups and uses (if any) people come up with, for all of Raiden's tools, before we jump to conclusions.

I don't really have any true setups, it's more just an overall strategy that's been working pretty well for me except vs very strong zoning characters.

Ideally you want to try and have an orb on the screen at all times. It's important that you get the first one out safely, it's not worth eating a combo for 1 orb. Once you have the orb out, you want to try and stay just outside your opponents attack range so they have to jump at you or move forward. If you see them start moving or they jump, throw the other orb out. If they jumped you might get hit but they'll get caught in the trap and you usually recover in time to still land a juggle. Even if you end up outside of normal range, you can usually still land a superman. If they moved forward and got hit, free combo but people wise up to that pretty quick. If they blocked and you're close enough you can make them guess throw, overhead and low. If they are out if range and the orbs whiff they can't approach you and you have enough time to throw another orb and start the process again. Another option is to cancel a block string into the second orb. I like to use 11, df4 since it doesn't push them out of orb range. It's usually worth trading a hit for the second orb but you need to be careful you don't get hit before the orb comes out. As long as you get your orb out it will interrupt almost everything, including throws leaving you enough time to still do some damage. It's very important you try and do as much damage off an orb juggle as possible. It doesn't take long to get in your opponents head and they will be very hesitant to attack you if you've got one orb out.

As I said above, it doesn't work well vs strong zoners since they can just keep throwing projectiles. I'm still figuring this style out so I could be using it all wrong but so far it's been working out well.

 

[Raidenwins]

I just noticed that he has some great normalsMoS


I don't really have any true setups, it's more just an overall strategy that's been working pretty well for me except vs very strong zoning characters.

Ideally you want to try and have an orb on the screen at all times. It's important that you get the first one out safely, it's not worth eating a combo for 1 orb. Once you have the orb out, you want to try and stay just outside your opponents attack range so they have to jump at you or move forward. If you see them start moving or they jump, throw the other orb out. If they jumped you might get hit but they'll get caught in the trap and you usually recover in time to still land a juggle. Even if you end up outside of normal range, you can usually still land a superman. If they moved forward and got hit, free combo but people wise up to that pretty quick. If they blocked and you're close enough you can make them guess throw, overhead and low. If they are out if range and the orbs whiff they can't approach you and you have enough time to throw another orb and start the process again. Another option is to cancel a block string into the second orb. I like to use 11, df4 since it doesn't push them out of orb range. It's usually worth trading a hit for the second orb but you need to be careful you don't get hit before the orb comes out. As long as you get your orb out it will interrupt almost everything, including throws leaving you enough time to still do some damage. It's very important you try and do as much damage off an orb juggle as possible. It doesn't take long to get in your opponents head and they will be very hesitant to attack you if you've got one orb out.

As I said above, it doesn't work well vs strong zoners since they can just keep throwing projectiles. I'm still figuring this style out so I could be using it all wrong but so far it's been working out well.

So I played pretty much all Master of Storms yesterday and here are my observations:

1. I followed your advice above about trying to have an orb out at all times. My usual strategy was back dash or jump back as soon as the round started. Most people are pretty cautions in the beginning so they don't usually go right after you. From there I would either do Back Orb immediately or do a Lightning Bolt first, to keep them away, followed up by a Back Orb. From there I was testing my theory above, i.e. do Air Electric Fly above them to the other side of the screen and then another Back Orb immediately. That worked most of the time, at least 70%. The problem was they were usually too far away when the trap caught them or I was being hit by a projectile. I still don't feel confident with running up and dishing out damage so I would normally do Superman at this point.
2. I am also not good with canceling into Orbs from combos yet so that severely limited my options. The only combos I have some consistency with right now are B1, 1, 1+3 and 3, 4, X-Ray.
3. There is the danger of getting so caught up in trying to get out that second Orb at all costs that you get too distracted and careless, and then bad things happen to you.
4. Getting caught in a trap once definitely makes most opponents more cautious. It makes them think twice about jumping up or dashing towards you because they don't know when the second Orb is coming out. It makes for some nasty mind games.
5. If you are far enough back to the edge of the screen and do a Back Orb, it goes out of the visible portion of the screen, but it's still active. That makes it easier for the opponent to forget there was an Orb there in the first place, hence they'd be more likely to get caught in the second one.

That's all I got right now. Master of Storms is definitely tricky and very strategic and I still say it has tons of potential.

 

[mrtom]

So I played pretty much all Master of Storms yesterday and here are my observations:

1. I followed your advice above about trying to have an orb out at all times. My usual strategy was back dash or jump back as soon as the round started. Most people are pretty cautions in the beginning so they don't usually go right after you. From there I would either do Back Orb immediately or do a Lightning Bolt first, to keep them away, followed up by a Back Orb. From there I was testing my theory above, i.e. do Air Electric Fly above them to the other side of the screen and then another Back Orb immediately. That worked most of the time, at least 70%. The problem was they were usually too far away when the trap caught them or I was being hit by a projectile. I still don't feel confident with running up and dishing out damage so I would normally do Superman at this point.
2. I am also not good with canceling into Orbs from combos yet so that severely limited my options. The only combos I have some consistency with right now are B1, 1, 1+3 and 3, 4, X-Ray.
3. There is the danger of getting so caught up in trying to get out that second Orb at all costs that you get too distracted and careless, and then bad things happen to you.
4. Getting caught in a trap once definitely makes most opponents more cautious. It makes them think twice about jumping up or dashing towards you because they don't know when the second Orb is coming out. It makes for some nasty mind games.
5. If you are far enough back to the edge of the screen and do a Back Orb, it goes out of the visible portion of the screen, but it's still active. That makes it easier for the opponent to forget there was an Orb there in the first place, hence they'd be more likely to get caught in the second one.

That's all I got right now. Master of Storms is definitely tricky and very strategic and I still say it has tons of potential.

If they get caught from far away you can usually do an immediate superman to catch them.

I usually don't do an orb at the start, most people don't attack immediately but some do and whoever gets the first hit gets a full bar of meter so I usually start attack right away.

It's very easy to get caught up in throwing orbs, especially when you first start using MoS which is usually results in you eating heavy damage. However, when you first start using it you should just experiment and not worry about losing. Eventually you'll figure out when you can throw them and not get punished for trying.

Throwing them backwards and moving forward is great because your opponent can forget it's out. The more you use him the more you know how long it's active, something your opponent won't be as confident about as you.

I think it's so cool how much it changes your opponents behavior. You can really control where they can go and what they can do, especially once they get caught a few times and you're in their head.

 

[Raidenwins]

..

I think it's so cool how much it changes your opponents behavior. You can really control where they can go and what they can do, especially once they get caught a few times and you're in their head.

Agreed with that 100%. Master of Storms was designed for mind games imo. Another cool trick I found out today (by accident, mind you) was that you can use Orbs to catch teleporters. Just do a Back Orb dash forward a bit and do one more Back orb and now you suddenly have protection behind you from back teleporters. I caught a Takeda player in one of those today. It felt pretty darn good, I have to say.

 

[Varion]

So I'm interested in picking up Raiden to compliment my jin main. I like being in your face//rushdown and giving a lot of pressure and comboing. Here's a few questions


What's his best variation for this? I've read thunder God is pretty strong.

2 what's his best punish string//fastest string to open someone up?

 

[Raidenwins]

So I'm interested in picking up Raiden to compliment my jin main. I like being in your face//rushdown and giving a lot of pressure and comboing. Here's a few questions


What's his best variation for this? I've read thunder God is pretty strong.

2 what's his best punish string//fastest string to open someone up?

Thunder God is definitely the way to go if you want to rush down. He is a beast in the corner by mixing up B3, 2(hold), or 1, 1, 2 (hold) with F1, 4, B3, 4, and B2, 2.

I think one of his best strings for opening up is B3, 2(hold). I saw Perfect Legend use it a lot in a recent tournament.

 

[mrtom]

So I'm interested in picking up Raiden to compliment my jin main. I like being in your face//rushdown and giving a lot of pressure and comboing. Here's a few questions


What's his best variation for this? I've read thunder God is pretty strong.

2 what's his best punish string//fastest string to open someone up?

For rushdown thunder god is probably the way to go. I love the love lightning pressure strings it provides.

His fastest poke would be f1 as it's 5 frame startup but it's a high so careful on crouchers. My favorite punish string would be 324 canceled into ex shocker then juggle into whatever you wish. b33 is a decent low poke that you can cancel to get good damage. b3,2(hold) is good on wakeup since it can stop armor reversals. It's also a good midrange poke and will catch jump-ins but you need to learn it's optimal spacing. 1122 is probably the most used string and there is another thread dedicated to it so I won't go into much detail here.

 

[mrtom]

Agreed with that 100%. Master of Storms was designed for mind games imo. Another cool trick I found out today (by accident, mind you) was that you can use Orbs to catch teleporters. Just do a Back Orb dash forward a bit and do one more Back orb and now you suddenly have protection behind you from back teleporters. I caught a Takeda player in one of those today. It felt pretty darn good, I have to say.

Yeah, Scorpion players love to teleport projectiles so if they see you throwing an orb they'll probably try to teleport punish you and get caught in the beam instead.