R-E-S-P-E-C-T: The Kitana Match-up Thread

[Pistol]

First match-up thread on the site? You guys know the drill. We brainstorm, test, play, and post up. I'll compile the best stuff here. This is going to take weeks/months to fill out. I'll try to update at least once a week. I want this to be a group effort. Let's break this character together.


General Strategy

Spoiler

* Punishing blocked moves that put your opponent packaged in a rolling ball of fun - Time your attack to hit them when they land on the ground to maximize your damage potential.
* You must master the instant air fan (iAF). It's much simpler in this game than in previous games. Just press up then immediately do the fan. If you did it right, your fan must be blocked or ducked. You can also do this with the Air Square Boost.
* Air Square Boost is her best move for getting out of the corner. Don't just throw it out there though, if you are hit out by a jab, you will eat a corner combo and be in the same situation. You can jump back then do the ASB at the peak of your jump to make sure you get out safely.

Vs. Baraka Vs. Cyber Sub-Zero Vs. Cyrax Vs. Ermac

Spoiler

Punish: Force Port(Teleport) slight delay f21 bnb
Force Lift: f21 bnb

Vs. Jade Vs. Jax

Spoiler

* Jax has a very difficult time getting in on Kitana. With her iAF and SB/ASB to get out once he finally gets you into the corner, he has to chase you all over the stage. This is kind of like Balrog vs Guile in SF4 except Kitana can get out of the corner lol
* Ground Pound? iAF or get a jump punch combo.
* Be wary of his dash punch, that thing comes at you so fast it's hard to see coming. It's his best punisher too. You can punish as it happens if you are already ducking with a d+1~Fan Lift.
* So basically run away with Air Fans and Square Boosts while punishing his every move. This is an easy battle IMO

Vs. Johnny Cage Vs. Kabal Vs. Kano Vs. Kenshi

 

[Pistol]

Vs. Kitana Vs. Kung Lao

Spoiler

* Once you make them pay for abusing the dive kick by punishing with a 40-50% combo, they will be VERY hesitant to use it brazenly again.
* Ground Fans and Instant Air Fans are very good at long distance because you are completely safe and will have control of your character even if they teleport on reaction to it.
* If you see a Ground Fan, you can do an iAF on reaction to it.
* You can, on reaction, back dash away from Lao's teleport and get a free fan lift with the buffered back back from the dash.
* In this matchup, it's all about shutting down his options and making them think. Kitana is a long range fighter that can duke it out up close when it comes to that, so frustrate him from a distance and punish his mistakes hard.

Vs. Liu Kang Vs. Mileena Vs. Nightwolf Vs. Noob Saibot Vs. Quan Chi Vs. Raiden Vs. Reptile Vs. Scarlet Vs. Scorpion Vs. Sektor

 

[Pistol]

Vs. Shang Tsung Vs. Sheeva Vs. Sindel Vs. Smoke

Spoiler

http://testyourmight.com/forum/showthread.php?4206-R-E-S-P-E-C-T-The-Kitana-Match-up-Thread&p=49745&viewfull=1#post49745
* You must use her Fans very sparingly. This is a footsies battle, and you can win it if you are patient.
* Like when fighting Kung Lao, punish a blocked Teleport Punch with your 40-50% combo. A lot of Smoke players like to use this on wakeup because this is Smoke's Invincible Wakeup Attack. Just be aware of this option for them and punish accordingly.
* When you see them do a Smoke Bomb, you can iAF on reaction and it will hit him as long as you are not fullscreen away.
* Here are a list of moves that beat his EX Shake -- Air Square Boost, Fan Lift, and Cutting Fan. You can fake out Smoke by doing some Air Fans just over his head, then doing an ASB when he does the Shake.

Vs. Sonya Vs. Stryker Vs. Sub-Zero

 

[DYNA$TY]

Guess all we need now is video and general discussion thread. Meet up thread would be cool too, just in case anyone wants to get some royal matches online.

 

[Konqrr]

Good thread. I have a lot of Kung Lao, Smoke, and Jax matchup experience offline.

General:
* Punishing blocked moves that put your opponent packaged in a rolling ball of fun - Time your attack to hit them when they land on the ground to maximize your damage potential.
* You must master the instant air fan (iAF). It's much simpler in this game than in previous games. Just press up then immediately do the fan. If you did it right, your fan must be blocked or ducked. You can also do this with the Air Square Boost.
* Air Square Boost is her best move for getting out of the corner. Don't just throw it out there though, if you are hit out by a jab, you will eat a corner combo and be in the same situation. You can jump back then do the ASB at the peak of your jump to make sure you get out safely.

vs Lao:
* Once you make them pay for abusing the dive kick by punishing with a 40-50% combo, they will be VERY hesitant to use it brazenly again.
* Ground Fans and Instant Air Fans are very good at long distance because you are completely safe and will have control of your character even if they teleport on reaction to it.
* If you see a Ground Fan, you can do an iAF on reaction to it.
* You can, on reaction, back dash away from Lao's teleport and get a free fan lift with the buffered back back from the dash.
* In this matchup, it's all about shutting down his options and making them think. Kitana is a long range fighter that can duke it out up close when it comes to that, so frustrate him from a distance and punish his mistakes hard.

vs Smoke:
* You must use her Fans very sparingly. This is a footsies battle, and you can win it if you are patient.
* Like when fighting Kung Lao, punish a blocked Teleport Punch with your 40-50% combo. A lot of Smoke players like to use this on wakeup because this is Smoke's Invincible Wakeup Attack. Just be aware of this option for them and punish accordingly.
* When you see them do a Smoke Bomb, you can iAF on reaction and it will hit him as long as you are not fullscreen away.
* Here are a list of moves that beat his EX Shake -- Air Square Boost, Fan Lift, and Cutting Fan. You can fake out Smoke by doing some Air Fans just over his head, then doing an ASB when he does the Shake.

vs Jax:
* Jax has a very difficult time getting in on Kitana. With her iAF and SB/ASB to get out once he finally gets you into the corner, he has to chase you all over the stage. This is kind of like Balrog vs Guile in SF4 except Kitana can get out of the corner lol
* Ground Pound? iAF or get a jump punch combo.
* Be wary of his dash punch, that thing comes at you so fast it's hard to see coming. It's his best punisher too. You can punish as it happens if you are already ducking with a d+1~Fan Lift.
* So basically run away with Air Fans and Square Boosts while punishing his every move. This is an easy battle IMO

 

[Pistol]

Nice writeup Konqrr. I'm just going to copy and paste that info for the short term.

 

[Konqrr]

I have a lot more info on the Lao and especially the Smoke matchup.

Smoke loses the matchup vs Kitana...

I will explain when I have time, school is taking all of it right now.

 

[McNasty]

Yeah instant air fan is so low the teleport punch becomes unsafe. Was maining smoke and sonya until I played against kitana her fan pokes zoning and keep away is just too good. shes going to be my backup I like air juggles.

 

[kona]

Playing the zoning game against Noob is a horrible idea because he can outzone you. Up close is where Kitana shines is this matchup. From my experiences, if Noob tries to d,b+3 you, you can sweep him on reaction to it cuz I believe he has upper body invincibility on it. I'm mainly going by a few matches I played with a friend a few days ago but will post more concrete info as I find out more.

 

[APPLES]

soo i was reading some stuff on here....but wats up SMOKE..?i heard he is anti KITANA n he plays a good keep away...hell pusnish full screen fans n gots that perry counter shit were if u rush down u gta b BALLZY..

 

[Konqrr]

Kitana vs Smoke

What I really wanted to do for this writeup is to make some videos to go along with it but I just don't have the time nor the second person to do moves for me to demonstrate with. Thank you NRS for making the Training Mode require two people to test stuff ^_^

The matchup against Smoke seems to be a big topic right now. Smoke is the anti-zoner character, that is undisputed. So on paper, he beats Kitana right? WRONG! I'll tell you why.

Some facts first:

* Smoke's Shake move counters Kitana's Fans, grounded or airborne, every time...on reaction. Do NOT throw them out randomly, ever, against a good Smoke.
* Smoke's :en Shake move counters all physical attacks and her fans as well, but it is vulnerable to low attacks.
* Kitana has three special moves that beat Smoke's Shake, both :en and not.
-- Square Boost and Air Square Boost d+1)
-- Fan Cutter d+2)
-- Fan Lift l+2)

Now that you know that, you have more tools to work with.

How to approach Smoke:
You want to stay at just outside of +2,1 range so if he tries any normals, you get a free +2,1 launcher combo into your BnB 48% combo. The plan is to stay at this range and punish everything he tries to do. What are Smoke's options from a distance? Smoke Bomb, Teleport Punch, Smoke Teleport forward, Smoke Teleport backward, Jump in Punch to start a mixup, Jump in Kick to try to go for his big otg combo from a JKxxAir Throw.

I'll go over them all now...all of them you can punish on reaction.
* Smoke Bomb - At jump distance, as long as you are not in a block state (which you shouldn't be), you can jump in and get a free jps combo for 48-51% depending on if you spend a meter to go for the :en Fan cancel to extend the combo.
* Teleport Punch - Do I need to tell you how you can punish this with a full ground combo of choice?
* Smoke Teleport forward - Unless he is using an :en Smoke Teleport, you can hit him with physical attacks for a free combo.
* Smoke Teleport backward - This you cannot punish, but it gets him closer to the corner so good for you! Just dash block to get in jump range again.
* Any Jump in - 2~Fan is her best anti air, and you can even do it to counter crossups.

So basically, if you are at this magic range, Smoke can't do ANYTHING safely except try to close the distance without jumping or run away and Smoke Bomb from a safe distance. You literally walk him to the corner and bait his teleport. If he makes two mistakes, he is dead...no meter needed.

If you are out of range and he throws a Smoke Bomb, like after a backwards Smoke Teleport, you can throw an Instant Air Fan (iAF) and it will hit him even full screen.

If you do throw any fans, make sure that they are just over his head so he couldn't punish them with Shake and if he decided to teleport to hit you out of the air, you land and are recovered before that can happen.

Baiting the Shake:
Not even the best Smoke player can react to every projectile thrown at him, especially Kitana where she has two options in the air that are hard to tell which is coming. You jump at him and throw a Fan to test him, get him used to it coming, then you throw out a Square Boost instead which beats Shake and is safe on block. This opens up more air Fan opportunities.

The Teleport Punch:
This move does only 8 or 9% right? Well, if you block it you do 48%, so don't fret if you get hit a few times. This is his most reliable anti air move, so don't jump around too much.

Using your Meter aka Meter Management:
You don't really need to use your meter in this matchup much. Kitana's best use of meter is her :en Fan Lift. It comes out in 10 frames, so it's really fast. Using the :en Fan to extend combos is a plus, but if the Smoke player has a breaker he will wait until you use that meter before he breaks. Don't waste the meter in this way unless they don't have a breaker or if you are trying to end the round with unbreakable fan damage. You really want to save your meter for breakers if he manages to catch you in a combo. If you have a full bar, use your setups to get :en Fan Lifts because you will have that meter back in no time with whiffed Air Fans and how many specials she does in her combos. You always want to have a breaker ready.

IMO, Smoke has to work a lot harder than Kitana in this matchup. She basically waits him out and he has to make the offense, but then counters everything he tries.

Countering Smoke's Wakeup:
After you knock Smoke down and fear a teleport wakeup (it's his invincible wakeup attack), get next to him and do either d+3 or d+4 and if he does the teleport, it whiffs over your head. If he does the ex teleport, the first part still whiffs, but then you block hits 2 and 3 then punish with a full combo.

UPDATE: A lot of Smoke players like to do air Teleport Punches that whiff to get in. If you don't react to it, he is safe and in your face. You can, on reaction, hit him out of the air with a 2~Fan combo for 40%+ or do a 2~Xray for big unbreakable damage.

This type of strategy isn't a Kitana specific one, you can apply it to every character in the game against Smoke.

 

[STORMS]

^promoted.

 

[NickTheZombie]

Wow, this is a really well written analysis. I would love to see more of these matchup breakdowns because I believe they teach us nubs more about the game than lists of combos, although those are also necessary so you know your character's toolset.

Big thanks for taking the time to write this opcorn:

 

[zombiebrian]

Hi new to the forum just thought id say the smoke matchup write up has saved my behind a few times already grats on a well written guide.

 

[Pistol]

I'm confused as to why it's on the front page. However, thanks for taking the time Konqrr.

I just finished my semester, and willl start updating this more often.

Kitana's punish for Kung lao's spin when he uses it in a chain is db3.

 

[Konqrr]

I'm confused as to why it's on the front page. However, thanks for taking the time Konqrr.

I just finished my semester, and willl start updating this more often.

Kitana's punish for Kung lao's spin when he uses it in a chain is db3.

You punish Lao's spin with f+21 no matter where it's used.

As for the guide, thanks guys! Something to add is after you knock Smoke down and fear a teleport wakeup (it's his invincible wakeup attack), get next to him and do either d+3 or d+4 and if he does the teleport, it whiffs over your head. If he does the ex teleport, the first part still whiffs, but then you block hits 2 and 3 then punish with a full combo.

 

[Pistol]

You punish Lao's spin with f+21 no matter where it's used.

I don't know about that, we tested it more than a few times. f+21 wasn't punishing in that situation, db3 was free.

 

[Lomyn]

I don't know about that, we tested it more than a few times. f+21 wasn't punishing in that situation, db3 was free.

There's a pretty precise window for getting optimum punishes. I'm not sure exactly where in blockstun it is, but as I've been going through to try and build hit/block data, it felt like there was definitely an early point where a move could come out a little faster, and then another point a bit later where you would be acting as normal on block.

 

[Konqrr]

I don't know about that, we tested it more than a few times. f+21 wasn't punishing in that situation, db3 was free.

I'll have to test it more. I was playing a lao player offline and was punishing his spins with it a lot. He said he couldn't block it, but it could have been user error.

 

[Pistol]

I'll have to test it more. I was playing a lao player offline and was punishing his spins with it a lot. He said he couldn't block it, but it could have been user error.

I played Toi_Yet's Kung Lao a lot last night offline.

We went into practice mode and worked on the punish. I apologize, you're right, I think there's only one situation where if he uses it in a block string it won't punish. The f2 whiffs. Damn, it's not an easy punish, it takes practice to get it consistently. The faster you let go of block the better.

Honestly, it seems like it will be an even match-up, but the Kitana has to be on point. You can't miss punishes, and you have to constantly watch Lao's meter to see what teleport he's using. Right now, I'm just jumping away from the ex. For the people that don't have a Kung Lao to practice against offline, it will be very hard for you to beat a decent one in tournament.

She beats Sub, from what I've played. As soon as you get x-ray he can't build meter. You really want to get that first hit. Her dash makes it hard for him to lock her down in corners.

Johnny Cage, play runaway Kitana to the fullest. A blocked shadow kick, ex or regular, is a free f21. This seems like a very easy match-up. Her uppercut is way too slow to punish his flashkick, if you're baiting it, look to tag it with an IAF.

 

[Konqrr]

I played Toi_Yet's Kung Lao a lot last night offline.

We went into practice mode and worked on the punish. I apologize, you're right, I think there's only one situation where if he uses it in a block string it won't punish. The f2 whiffs. Damn, it's not an easy punish, it takes practice to get it consistently. The faster you let go of block the better.

Honestly, it seems like it will be an even match-up, but the Kitana has to be on point. You can't miss punishes, and you have to constantly watch Lao's meter to see what teleport he's using. Right now, I'm just jumping away from the ex. For the people that don't have a Kung Lao to practice against offline, it will be very hard for you to beat a decent one in tournament.

She beats Sub, from what I've played. As soon as you get x-ray he can't build meter. You really want to get that first hit. Her dash makes it hard for him to lock her down in corners.

Johnny Cage, play runaway Kitana to the fullest. A blocked shadow kick, ex or regular, is a free f21. This seems like a very easy match-up. Her uppercut is way too slow to punish his flashkick, if you're baiting it, look to tag it with an IAF.

What was the situation that you couldn't punish the spin with f21?

I don't have a Sub to train with except mine lol

You are right, you cannot EVER let Cage in on you or it's over, Kitana can't get out unless you get a read on his blockstrings and hit him with d+1 to create space.

 

[Pistol]

What was the situation that you couldn't punish the spin with f21?

I'm not sure, I'll keep you posted, I'll be playing and testing a lot of stuff with him.

I worded that wrong, the f2 hits, the 1 whiffs.

 

[Konqrr]

I'm not sure, I'll keep you posted, I'll be playing and testing a lot of stuff with him.

I worded that wrong, the f2 hits, the 1 whiffs.

I'm sure that on any normal spin block, you can dash in and get a 21 for free though... but for obvious reasons you want the f21 instead. That sucks that the launcher whiffs, that means that we would have to burn a meter to get the ex fan for a full combo and that is risky if lao has a breaker!

 

[Shiizu]

Any tips for a Kitana vs Kitana mirror match? I find myself losing a lot of these, against really good Kitana players. From far away, I can beat them mostly with iAFs but once they close in, I find it really hard to punish her since pretty much everything she throws at me isn't punishable. This one friend I play against who also mains Kitana likes to spam f21 a lot, but when I block it, I can't really do much since he does d1 right after to make it completely safe.

 

[DrDogg]

Any tips for a Kitana vs Kitana mirror match? I find myself losing a lot of these, against really good Kitana players. From far away, I can beat them mostly with iAFs but once they close in, I find it really hard to punish her since pretty much everything she throws at me isn't punishable. This one friend I play against who also mains Kitana likes to spam f21 a lot, but when I block it, I can't really do much since he does d1 right after to make it completely safe.

After a blocked f+2,1 you can use a throw before the d+1 depending on the spacing. I need to test this more, but I know I've been interrupted by a throw. You can also use a cross-up attack as well, but Kitana has other options to knock you out of it if she anticipates the cross-up.

If you space well, make Kitana whiff the f+2,1, then punish.