R-E-S-P-E-C-T: The Kitana Match-up Thread

[Pistol]

I haven't played the mirror. I imagine it comes down to building meter, footsies, and turtling with the life lead.

Saving for x-ray might be a good option for shutting down runaway air dashes. I'll have to test it.

 

[Konqrr]

One thing to note is you DO NOT JUMP at Kitana. Against a good player, blatently jumping at her will end up you eating an air fan resulting in a 30% combo. Save your meter for breakers and unbreakable :en fan combos to end rounds when you need them.

 

[Shiizu]

Thanks for the tips. I have been having a lot of success now in mirror matchups lately. One thing I can say is that Kitanas that like to jump a lot up close and cross you up can easily be dealed with either enhanced fan lift or jump-away air fan. Jump away iAF is my favorite as it leads to a 30% meterless combo which they're forced to break out of to avoid eating the damage. Also enhanced fan lift works wonders against rushdown kitanas. My main way of dealing with mirrors is to use whatever I can to keep Kitana away from me and then outzone her since most of the people I play against can't seem to get the iAF consistently, so I abuse that weakness a lot.

I was wondering what you guys thought about the Mileena matchup though. Played a few games against a friend who loves to abuse Mileena's instant air sais from long range. As far as I know, those things beat Kitana's instant air fans completely. I couldn't get one out before getting hit by a sai, and I was forced to use square boosts to get out of those situations everytime. And up close, Mileena's mixups are just beastly. Is there any consistent way to deal with Mileena? I usually just punish her unsafe moves but against the good Mileena players that know how to abuse her sais, I don't have much of an answer. Also what do you guys use to punish Mileena's teleport kick on block? She seems to recover instantly when she touches the ground, so you only have a small timeframe to punish her during the recovery frames while she's in the air.

 

[Konqrr]

Thanks for the tips. I have been having a lot of success now in mirror matchups lately. One thing I can say is that Kitanas that like to jump a lot up close and cross you up can easily be dealed with either enhanced fan lift or jump-away air fan. Jump away iAF is my favorite as it leads to a 30% meterless combo which they're forced to break out of to avoid eating the damage. Also enhanced fan lift works wonders against rushdown kitanas. My main way of dealing with mirrors is to use whatever I can to keep Kitana away from me and then outzone her since most of the people I play against can't seem to get the iAF consistently, so I abuse that weakness a lot.

I was wondering what you guys thought about the Mileena matchup though. Played a few games against a friend who loves to abuse Mileena's instant air sais from long range. As far as I know, those things beat Kitana's instant air fans completely. I couldn't get one out before getting hit by a sai, and I was forced to use square boosts to get out of those situations everytime. And up close, Mileena's mixups are just beastly. Is there any consistent way to deal with Mileena? I usually just punish her unsafe moves but against the good Mileena players that know how to abuse her sais, I don't have much of an answer. Also what do you guys use to punish Mileena's teleport kick on block? She seems to recover instantly when she touches the ground, so you only have a small timeframe to punish her during the recovery frames while she's in the air.

Read which height level her sai is thrown at and advance toward her.

What mixup from Mileena? Just block low until you see the overhead which is insanely slow.

Punishing Mileena... you have to hit her before she lands with something like 2~fan, 2~lift. This is how I punish the roll too as it seems she recovers pretty quickly when she lands form that too.

 

[Shiizu]

Read which height level her sai is thrown at and advance toward her.

What mixup from Mileena? Just block low until you see the overhead which is insanely slow.

Punishing Mileena... you have to hit her before she lands with something like 2~fan, 2~lift. This is how I punish the roll too as it seems she recovers pretty quickly when she lands form that too.

A lot of useful tips here, thanks. ^_^
I think I just lack Mileena match-up experience which is why she seems very scary up close at first, but that seems to be the best way to deal with her as Kitana. I wonder if saving Kitana's x-ray just to counter the constant instant air sais from far away is a good idea. I'll have to try all of this out. =)

 

[Somberness]

I would not just block low against her, she can cancel into from a poke or just lead off with ex ball which hits overhead. Your best bet would be blocking high and watching out for back 3 (which is a low) instead. But without meter, yeah I suppose you could get away with it.

 

[Konqrr]

I would not just block low against her, she can cancel into from a poke or just lead off with ex ball which hits overhead. Your best bet would be blocking high and watching out for back 3 (which is a low) instead. But without meter, yeah I suppose you could get away with it.

I just meant as a generic strategy until you get used to her b3/u4 mixup.

Do NOT try to use Kitana's to punish Mileena's Sai...ever. You might get it once or twice, but you have to be a jedi and it's simply not worth the risk. Mileena recovers too fast.

EDIT: Something else to note that I just found during casuals... Against Nightwolf fullscreen or close to it, if he reflects an iAF and you immediately do another iAF, the one he reflects disappears! Craziness!

 

[AK BeerGuyEd]

Great thread. I am learning a lot. Please keep the info coming.

 

[Krayzie]

Can I get a few good BNB combos with Kitana?

I'll check this thread later when I get my hands on the game... lol

 

[xbombr]

F+2, 1, NJP, B+2, Air Fan, dash, ground fan, dash, something of your choice (Most people combo into cutter)

You can even combo that into an Xray after you hit the ground fan if you want and the dash before it will be unnecessary since you don't need to close distance to Xray.

 

[DrDogg]

Good thread. I have a lot of Kung Lao, Smoke, and Jax matchup experience offline.

vs Lao:
* Once you make them pay for abusing the dive kick by punishing with a 40-50% combo, they will be VERY hesitant to use it brazenly again.
* Ground Fans and Instant Air Fans are very good at long distance because you are completely safe and will have control of your character even if they teleport on reaction to it.
* If you see a Ground Fan, you can do an iAF on reaction to it.
* You can, on reaction, back dash away from Lao's teleport and get a free fan lift with the buffered back back from the dash.
* In this matchup, it's all about shutting down his options and making them think. Kitana is a long range fighter that can duke it out up close when it comes to that, so frustrate him from a distance and punish his mistakes hard.

None of this is effective against good Kung Lao players. They don't teleport in situations where you can back dash to fan lift and they don't dive kick in situations where you can block it. iAF to shut down ground hat only works from a distance, and most good Kung Lao players will use it up close when iAF won't help you.

So is there anything we know that will work against a good Kung player? I'm almost to the point of dropping Kitana because she's starting to feel very limited against the top tier characters. I'm having similar issues against good Raiden players as well. I almost always have to switch to someone with better tools than Kitana.

I'll need hit/block frame data before I completely drop Kitana, but so far I'm not liking her top tier match-up options.

EDIT:

Against Raiden, I know you can interrupt b+3,1,2 and 3,3,4, but Kitana can only interrupt with d+1 (at least that's all I've found with limited testing), which doesn't really hurt Raiden all that much. In comparison, Kung Lao can punish Raiden with Spin and Raiden can EX Superman or teleport. Sonya can EX Cartwheel to launch, etc, etc, etc.

 

[Shiizu]

I actually find iAFs very useful against good Lao players. At long range, you can toss quite a few of them. If they try to teleport in between the iAFs, you can often get a Square Boost out easily to punish the teleport due to the reverse motion between the Square Boost and fan throw. Keep him far away and punish him if he tries to get up close.

EDIT:

d+1 isn't best for its damage, it's great for interrupting and stopping the flow of their strings. It's also great for conditioning the opponent to block so that Kitana can start her own offense.

 

[16 Bit]

How are the Kung Lao's getting in on you? I played that matchup a lot at UFGT and feel it favors her. Even Perfect Legend's Kung Lao had trouble and he said it was 6-4 for her.

The common top character I was overwhelmed by is Ermac. He negates her strengths, you can't zone unless it's at full screen and his fireball is so fast.

 

[16 Bit]

If you think Kung may try to f+3 in you can do a neutral jump and njp the whiff and it's great for Kitana since you have fans and boost.

 

[DrDogg]

I actually find iAFs very useful against good Lao players. At long range, you can toss quite a few of them. If they try to teleport in between the iAFs, you can often get a Square Boost out easily to punish the teleport due to the reverse motion between the Square Boost and fan throw. Keep him far away and punish him if he tries to get up close.

EDIT:

d+1 isn't best for its damage, it's great for interrupting and stopping the flow of their strings. It's also great for conditioning the opponent to block so that Kitana can start her own offense.

iAF doesn't get me any damage against good Kung players. They don't teleport for obvious reasons and I can't just continually spam them because Kung can Dive Kick if he gets close enough.

Also, I know d+1 is a good interrupting tool, but against Raiden the damage is more important, especially when other characters can get a full combo when Kitana can only d+1.

How are the Kung Lao's getting in on you? I played that matchup a lot at UFGT and feel it favors her. Even Perfect Legend's Kung Lao had trouble and he said it was 6-4 for her.

The common top character I was overwhelmed by is Ermac. He negates her strengths, you can't zone unless it's at full screen and his fireball is so fast.

The Kung's get in on me by dash blocking until they can Dive Kick to get around iAF. I also can't jump at the Kung player unless it's a safe jump since Spin is virtually instant and beats cross-up attempts.

I actually have no problems against good Ermacs, but I don't like playing a zoning Kitana, so that may be why.

 

[Konqrr]

If you are getting hit by dive kicks over your iAFs then you are getting read. Make your own read and change up the height of the AF and punish them. When they continually dash block, run up and throw their ass or do a block string.

You gotta make good reads when you play Kitana, and the Lao matchup you have to zone him out. Lao's problem is that he can't get in very easily. Like Osu said, NJP the roll attempts and make them pay.

 

[Pistol]

I have really good Kung Lao comp, to me it feels like an even match-up, you just have to get used to blocking Kung Lao. It's all blocking low when he get's in, fuzzy guarding his overhead (max punish), teching throws, and sweeping his cross-up jump punch on reaction.

DrDogg judging by some other posts, I imagine your biggest problem is you don't play the match-up lame enough. It's not exactly easy for him to get in, dash blocking is free meter and chip, plus Kitana can punish his enhanced armored teleport.

Honestly, it's a more annoying match-up, when the Kung Lao get's into the projectile war, his regular hat has very good recovery, it's not worth trying an x-ray.

I'll add the bnbs to the first post later.

 

[Konqrr]

No no... don't block low unless you know a b33 low starter is coming... Why? Because if you block Lao's spin while blocking low, you only have 1-2 frames to punish instead of the bigger window you have from blocking a spin standing. Not like a good Lao is going to spin randomly, but it happens and you need to punish him when he does.

Also, when you block Lao's EX Spin low, it hits one more time than if you are stand blocking it and it pushes you out so far that you can't punish with anything.

One thing that I want to know is if Kitana can punish Lao's 21212 bullshit. I thought that you could get an EX Fan or something but it's too slow.

 

[lobo]

Can I get a few good BNB combos with Kitana?

I'll check this thread later when I get my hands on the game... lol

she can get hella damage. if you're just picking her up, though, here is what i'd recommend: (AF=d,f1 in air) (fan=d,f1) (cutter=d,f2)

f21, b2AF, ff, 4fan, f2cutter - does 41% damage midscreen no meter, and works with no modification if you push them to a corner. for an overhead ending string there is:
f41, f2fan, f2cutter - does 35% midscreen no meter off an overhead ending 2 hit. in a corner you have:
f41, b2AF, *pause*, 4fan, f2cutter - does 44% no meter iirc.

you can make the cutter at the end EXcutter if in a corner in any of these and tack on a few extra %. you can also get 48% f21 BnB and 42% f41 BnB from the kombo thread also, but those combos are quite a bit longer and more difficult than they are worth for less than 10% extra damage all the higher dmg kombos i know of involve at least 5 more hits and multiple additional links that i often drop :/ . all above kombos are short, sweet, and most importantly, easy as shit to nail consistently. i, for one, seem to muck up her nj.p and dash cancel combos far more often than i'm comfortable with. i'd start there and then tack on extra damage to the kombos as you get comfortable.

 

[Konqrr]

she can get hella damage. if you're just picking her up, though, here is what i'd recommend: (AF=d,f1 in air) (fan=d,f1) (cutter=d,f2)

f21, b2AF, ff, 4fan, f2cutter - does 41% damage midscreen no meter, and works with no modification if you push them to a corner. for an overhead ending string there is:
f41, f2fan, f2cutter - does 35% midscreen no meter off an overhead ending 2 hit. in a corner you have:
f41, b2AF, *pause*, 4fan, f2cutter - does 44% no meter iirc.

you can make the cutter at the end EXcutter if in a corner in any of these and tack on a few extra %. you can also get 48% f21 BnB and 42% f41 BnB from the kombo thread also, but those combos are quite a bit longer and more difficult than they are worth for less than 10% extra damage all the higher dmg kombos i know of involve at least 5 more hits and multiple additional links that i often drop :/ . all above kombos are short, sweet, and most importantly, easy as shit to nail consistently. i, for one, seem to muck up her nj.p and dash cancel combos far more often than i'm comfortable with. i'd start there and then tack on extra damage to the kombos as you get comfortable.

I'm pretty sure KB was trolling. I don't think he cares to play Kitana lol

 

[lobo]

:/

well i tried.

 

[Pistol]

No no... don't block low unless you know a b33 low starter is coming... Why? Because if you block Lao's spin while blocking low, you only have 1-2 frames to punish instead of the bigger window you have from blocking a spin standing. Not like a good Lao is going to spin randomly, but it happens and you need to punish him when he does.

I'm not eating the low starter. Sounds like your Kung Lao comp needs to use it more.

 

[Konqrr]

I'm not eating the low starter. Sounds like your Kung Lao comp needs to use it more.

The setups for it are easy to see coming, block accordingly.

 

[DrDogg]

The setups for it are easy to see coming, block accordingly.

You don't need a setup for it. Run up b33 works just fine and can't be seen coming.

That said, if Spin is getting an additional 6 frames of recovery, I'm hoping you should be able to block crouching and punish with f+2,1 or f+4 (or maybe dash up and use 2,1). So hopefully it won't even matter and you can just block low all the time against KL.

 

[RWDY Nori]

If this has been answered I apologize, but for curiousity, how does a Kitana deal w/rushdown chars like KL/Raiden/Reptile?