Tech Quick bits of tech.

[BoricuaHeat]

So Flash's D3 is 11 Frames apparently and I did B22~RMS Kancel into D3 and only traded with Lex's Reversal Corp Charge.

This to me means +5. How did you get test it to get +6?

EDIT: Nvm... I got it to beat it out klean so it is +6 at least.

I also tested F2~RMS Kancel into Standing 1 (8 frames). It trades, which means it should be +2.

I think I am going to start using him after all. I forgot how much I loved him and his kancels. (I love kancels, part of the reason I use Green Arrow.)
He kinds kompliments Green Arrow by kovering his tough match ups like Bane and Batman.

Thank the heavens for your help man (cancels are a lot of fun)! b22 RMS cancel is +6 after further testing (damn! I was getting excited for +7). F2 RMS +2 on block that's huge for me! I was testing with Black Adam's d1 versus Flash's and it would would trade so I assumed plus 1 and oh wow I feel stupid

I FORGOT, Flash's F2 into RMS is +2. I made this a while back and forgot to look back at the video, Adam's d1 is 6 frames man so yeah +2!

And Arrow for me helps cover match ups like Killer Frost with his mid range play style, helps me relax a bit more.

 

[Red Reaper]

Thank the heavens for your help man (cancels are a lot of fun)! b22 RMS cancel is +6 after further testing (damn! I was getting excited for +7). F2 RMS +2 on block that's huge for me! I was testing with Black Adam's d1 versus Flash's and it would would trade so I assumed plus 1 and oh wow I feel stupid

I FORGOT, Flash's F2 into RMS is +2. I made this a while back and forgot to look back at the video, Adam's d1 is 6 frames man so yeah +2!

And Arrow for me helps cover match ups like Killer Frost with his mid range play style, helps me relax a bit more.

Knowing the frame advantage for Flash's stuff is important. B22~RMS~F1 MB is also uninterruptable by Corp Charge (There is a gap but that gap helps katch people trying to poke out) . I was thinking this kould be useful on occasion for katching backdashes and beating out armored moves but D1D2 beats out most armored moves alone (not Grundy's trait grab if I remember korrectly) and I would think they'd usually be blocking low. Since it's the faster option. This also kombos too on hit..

Since the Lightning Charge after RMS is 6 Frames, I was thinking we kould possibly do this, to keep the pressure going after D1: D1D2~RMS~F1 MB and mix it up with D1D2~RMS Kancel F2 to stop them from krouching. Once konditioned it kan make them think twice about doing anything after D1D2 and then you kan start adding in D1D2~RMS~F and then going for a 50/50 instead of doing the MB F1.

I haven't played the Frost Match Up with Arrow (well once online but it was really laggy)... Don't know how good it is for him though.. I'd think it would be better for Flash.

 

[BoricuaHeat]

Knowing the frame advantage for Flash's stuff is important. B22~RMS~F1 MB is also uninterruptable by Corp Charge (There is a gap but that gap helps katch people trying to poke out) . I was thinking this kould be useful on occasion for katching backdashes and beating out armored moves but D1D2 beats out most armored moves alone (not Grundy's trait grab if I remember korrectly) and I would think they'd usually be blocking low. Since it's the faster option. This also kombos too on hit..

Since the Lightning Charge after RMS is 6 Frames, I was thinking we kould possibly do this, to keep the pressure going after D1: D1D2~RMS~F1 MB and mix it up with D1D2~RMS Kancel F2 to stop them from krouching. Once konditioned it kan make them think twice about doing anything after D1D2 and then you kan start adding in D1D2~RMS~F and then going for a 50/50 instead of doing the MB F1.

I haven't played the Frost Match Up with Arrow (well once online but it was really laggy)... Don't know how good it is for him though.. I'd think it would be better for Flash.

Agreed, can't just go on about jump 2 into a coin flip when you could go for frame traps for a better mix up. I think the real strength of RMS cancelling is access to the charge for catching back dashes or MB3 attempts and it will play a huge part of my game when integrated. D1D2 RMS cancel on block is sadly -5 which would make going from pressure after it real ballsy. Something like D1D2~RMS~Backdash could bait something but not worth it, like you stated tho conditioning them is key to allow the pleasure of using mix ups like these.

I was thinking along the lines like this: b22~RMS cancel, B22~RMS cancel, d1, d1, d2~lighting kick. Or B2, B22~RMS cancel, F2~RMS cancel, B22~RMS cancel, 3,2~delayed lighting kick. The first one must be beaten by a 9 frame move or faster on the initial B22's and d1, d1 must be traded with 6 framers and finally d1 into d2 is only beatable from 8 frames or faster. Just theorizing some block strings right now, and not to mention after an RMS cancel we have access to a MB B/F3 for safety and extra pressure. Also to note b2 RMS cancel is neutral on block which could be used for a little gimmick like b2~RMS, MB B3.


I underestimate Frost's abilities at times and with Green Arrow I can just take my time with proper spacing and go in when I feel like it as opposed to just going nuts with Flash.

 

[Red Reaper]

Agreed, can't just go on about jump 2 into a coin flip when you could go for frame traps for a better mix up. I think the real strength of RMS cancelling is access to the charge for catching back dashes or MB3 attempts and it will play a huge part of my game when integrated. D1D2 RMS cancel on block is sadly -5 which would make going from pressure after it real ballsy. Something like D1D2~RMS~Backdash could bait something but not worth it, like you stated tho conditioning them is key to allow the pleasure of using mix ups like these.

I was thinking along the lines like this: b22~RMS cancel, B22~RMS cancel, d1, d1, d2~lighting kick. Or B2, B22~RMS cancel, F2~RMS cancel, B22~RMS cancel, 3,2~delayed lighting kick. The first one must be beaten by a 9 frame move or faster on the initial B22's and d1, d1 must be traded with 6 framers and finally d1 into d2 is only beatable from 8 frames or faster. Just theorizing some block strings right now, and not to mention after an RMS cancel we have access to a MB B/F3 for safety and extra pressure. Also to note b2 RMS cancel is neutral on block which could be used for a little gimmick like b2~RMS, MB B3.


I underestimate Frost's abilities at times and with Green Arrow I can just take my time with proper spacing and go in when I feel like it as opposed to just going nuts with Flash.

D1D2~RMS kancel is minus but when you don't kancel and go into F1 instead your move should kome out faster because it's 6 frames.. lol. If they respect that, that's when you kan F2 them because they won't want to backdash either, thanx to the F1.

Lightning Kick is good but it leaves you minus up klose (unlike D1D2~RMS Kancel). Plus it's always good to have multiple options... I always liked 32~Lightning Kick because it looks like you kan't really tell when he's in the stance unlike the other ones. I just never really got used to using it..

I forgot D1 is plus.. lol. I thought it was neutral like D1D2 for some reason. D1 into D2 looks good. I've been meaning to look into what D2~RMS Kancel is on block. I think it's safer and still allows you to kombo after it for sure.

After MB B3/F3 kan we really keep the pressure going. I think if they're standing the get pushed back too far don't they?

Not a fan of B2~RMS Kancel. Too much work for nothing when the regular B2 is +4.

I think Patience is something a lot of us need to learn to have with Flash. I noticed that people tend to hang themselves by being so impatient. I have it with Green Arrow out of neccessity, I'm just wondering if it's going to transfer back to Flash.

 

[BoricuaHeat]

D1D2~RMS kancel is minus but when you don't kancel and go into F1 instead your move should kome out faster because it's 6 frames.. lol. If they respect that, that's when you kan F2 them because they won't want to backdash either, thanx to the F1.

Lightning Kick is good but it leaves you minus up klose (unlike D1D2~RMS Kancel). Plus it's always good to have multiple options... I always liked 32~Lightning Kick because it looks like you kan't really tell when he's in the stance unlike the other ones. I just never really got used to using it..

I forgot D1 is plus.. lol. I thought it was neutral like D1D2 for some reason. D1 into D2 looks good. I've been meaning to look into what D2~RMS Kancel is on block. I think it's safer and still allows you to kombo after it for sure.

After MB B3/F3 kan we really keep the pressure going. I think if they're standing the get pushed back too far don't they?

Not a fan of B2~RMS Kancel. Too much work for nothing when the regular B2 is +4.

I think Patience is something a lot of us need to learn to have with Flash. I noticed that people tend to hang themselves by being so impatient. I have it with Green Arrow out of neccessity, I'm just wondering if it's going to transfer back to Flash.

True, gotta get em to hold that pressure, minus or not. I use Lighting Kick to go back to my range game with b22 since it leaves you at just the right advantage (-5) for a backdash (very risky tho). It's best for some cool frame traps with 3,2 since you never see it used and with 1,2,3 off a jump in.

Yeah dude like +1, d1d2 is also plus 1 but pushes you to a distance where you can't do anything besides a d2 which might whiff. on many characters. D2~RMS cancel is -5 on block. On hit lets you go for a fully optimized combo like d2, 21, b22f3 charge (about 24%?) I am on the fence of either using that or d2 lighting kick.

After MB B3/F3 it puts you at just the right distance to go for a b22~RMS cancel so yup, real easy to keep it going. B2~RMS is just something to keep in mind to disrespect people I suppose.

Agreed, I just get anxious to go in for some fighting man, just wanna hit something! I just go nuts with every character I play and it just moves on to my whole army of mains. Your patience should transfer over I guarantee that since it does depend on you bro!

 

[Red Reaper]

True, gotta get em to hold that pressure, minus or not. I use Lighting Kick to go back to my range game with b22 since it leaves you at just the right advantage (-5) for a backdash (very risky tho). It's best for some cool frame traps with 3,2 since you never see it used and with 1,2,3 off a jump in.

Yeah dude like +1, d1d2 is also plus 1 but pushes you to a distance where you can't do anything besides a d2 which might whiff. on many characters. D2~RMS cancel is -5 on block. On hit lets you go for a fully optimized combo like d2, 21, b22f3 charge (about 24%?) I am on the fence of either using that or d2 lighting kick.

After MB B3/F3 it puts you at just the right distance to go for a b22~RMS cancel so yup, real easy to keep it going. B2~RMS is just something to keep in mind to disrespect people I suppose.

Agreed, I just get anxious to go in for some fighting man, just wanna hit something! I just go nuts with every character I play and it just moves on to my whole army of mains. Your patience should transfer over I guarantee that since it does depend on you bro!

I never really use 123. Not even sure what it looks like.. lol. I kould've sworn D1D2 was neutral...

I was thinking D2~Lightning Kick but I like D2~RMS Kancel better since it leaves you farther away so you kould back dash easier if you need to. D2~Sonic Pound also looks better since you kan meter burn it to keep the advantage but I haven't actually tested it to see what kombos or how interruptable it is. Most Sonic Pound on block set ups are interruptable by MB B3 anyway.

Well when I used to main Flash I wasn't as patient. I think part of the patience also komes with the characters. The good thing about being patient with Flash that I often forget is that by waiting you're building back up your trait.

 

[BoricuaHeat]

I never really use 123. Not even sure what it looks like.. lol. I kould've sworn D1D2 was neutral...

I was thinking D2~Lightning Kick but I like D2~RMS Kancel better since it leaves you farther away so you kould back dash easier if you need to. D2~Sonic Pound also looks better since you kan meter burn it to keep the advantage but I haven't actually tested it to see what kombos or how interruptable it is. Most Sonic Pound on block set ups are interruptable by MB B3 anyway.

Well when I used to main Flash I wasn't as patient. I think part of the patience also komes with the characters. The good thing about being patient with Flash that I often forget is that by waiting you're building back up your trait.

Its funny cause it doesn't even matter if d1d2 was neutral lol.

True about d2~RMS cancel, one slight advantage. D2 sonic pound sadly is easily interrupted, leaving about a 15 frame gap. I found some weird properties with 2 into sonic pound tho, only interrupted from 9 frames or faster.

I always press trait and just go nuts whenever I can, every option is safe so why not! Time to make a new thread, recording some stuff for tomorrow. After that gotta finally get off my ass and make a how to RMS pressure gonna take a while to break down each character tho might need help from the community on this one (plus I might not be the most competent today).

 

[Zyphox]

So Flash's D3 is 11 Frames apparently and I did B22~RMS Kancel into D3 and only traded with Lex's Reversal Corp Charge.

This to me means +5. How did you get test it to get +6?

EDIT: Nvm... I got it to beat it out klean so it is +6 at least.

I also tested F2~RMS Kancel into Standing 1 (8 frames). It trades, which means it should be +2.

I think I am going to start using him after all. I forgot how much I loved him and his kancels. (I love kancels, part of the reason I use Green Arrow.)
He kinds kompliments Green Arrow by kovering his tough match ups like Bane and Batman.

batman is a tough MU for flash (inb4 CD jr says he was right lol ) IMO, i played king and arma at NEC a lot and i always play arma at the break, batman out zones and out rushes the flash down and trait makes me burn meter, the only thing saving flash is once batman get knocked down you pretty much have to make the right reads and you can beat him down on the ground...

 

[Red Reaper]

Its funny cause it doesn't even matter if d1d2 was neutral lol.

True about d2~RMS cancel, one slight advantage. D2 sonic pound sadly is easily interrupted, leaving about a 15 frame gap. I found some weird properties with 2 into sonic pound tho, only interrupted from 9 frames or faster.

I always press trait and just go nuts whenever I can, every option is safe so why not! Time to make a new thread, recording some stuff for tomorrow. After that gotta finally get off my ass and make a how to RMS pressure gonna take a while to break down each character tho might need help from the community on this one (plus I might not be the most competent today).

Of kourse it matters! Everything matters! Though as of right now I kan't think of a specific kase where it does...

It's always a lot of work to do that kind of stuff.. I'm kurrently trying to go through the whole kast to see which of my normals work on what character, set ups, etc... I gave up on wake ups (for now) since the ability to delay wake ups really messed up some of the oki I had. (Specifically against Aquaman) but I'm starting off with the main characters in my scene.

 

[Red Reaper]

batman is a tough MU for flash (inb4 CD jr says he was right lol ) IMO, i played king and arma at NEC a lot and i always play arma at the break, batman out zones and out rushes the flash down and trait makes me burn meter, the only thing saving flash is once batman get knocked down you pretty much have to make the right reads and you can beat him down on the ground...

Yeah. I was thinking that match up wouldn't be that good but it looks better than the Arrow match up. Maybe if I get better at zoning and kounter zoning it won't be so bad but trait + bats + MB really messes me up and then once I get in he shoots his money at me and I kan't get klose. At least with Flash when he does that I kan oki him for damage and AA him reliably. I also get access to lows to make him think twice about parrying. MMH is my best bet as it feels even, but I want to get better with Flash in all his match ups if I'm going to use him in my team again.

 

[BoricuaHeat]

Of kourse it matters! Everything matters! Though as of right now I kan't think of a specific kase where it does...

It's always a lot of work to do that kind of stuff.. I'm kurrently trying to go through the whole kast to see which of my normals work on what character, set ups, etc... I gave up on wake ups (for now) since the ability to delay wake ups really messed up some of the oki I had. (Specifically against Aquaman) but I'm starting off with the main characters in my scene.

Lol, alright alright you make a point man. I guess a case would be one extra frame of advantage to go for a MB B3 or D2 frame trap. Wake ups with Flash I can deal with, but having to test every single character with the OTG to make sure it works with pinpoint timing is infuriating (but fun!). Good mindset, always good to make sure your stuff works on the represented.

Zyphox Lol trait and pop goes Batman. But really tho it is a cool match up to play when both players have their A game too. From parrying sonic pounds to phasing through bats, I love it.

 

[Red Reaper]

Lol, alright alright you make a point man. I guess a case would be one extra frame of advantage to go for a MB B3 or D2 frame trap. Wake ups with Flash I can deal with, but having to test every single character with the OTG to make sure it works with pinpoint timing is infuriating (but fun!). Good mindset, always good to make sure your stuff works on the represented.

Zyphox Lol trait and pop goes Batman. But really tho it is a cool match up to play when both players have their A game too. From parrying sonic pounds to phasing through bats, I love it.

My oki game with Arrow is very similar. I had to time things perfectly both in kombo and after the knockdown to stuff Aquaman's wake ups but then when I recorded myself doing it and then tested it from Aquaman's point of view, I found that I kould delay his wake ups and blow Arrow up. Since I sacrificed damage for this set up (7%) and Arrow doesn't do that much to begin with. I found it very annoying.. Especially when you konsider the amount of work it takes to time the kombo at the right height and time the dash at the right time, etc... After more hours of testing, I found that I kould stuff the delay with a different string but then I kouldn't tell if there was only two possible timings for the wake up or three so I decided to post pone it. Also, I wasn't sure what timings overlapped between Wake Up Scoop and Trident Rush..

So, just be sure to learn from my experience. Test the recording on yourself to make sure something works and test delayed wake ups.

PS: Also let me know if there's two or three different timings (or more) if you do happen to do that.. lol.

 

[BoricuaHeat]

My oki game with Arrow is very similar. I had to time things perfectly both in kombo and after the knockdown to stuff Aquaman's wake ups but then when I recorded myself doing it and then tested it from Aquaman's point of view, I found that I kould delay his wake ups and blow Arrow up. Since I sacrificed damage for this set up (7%) and Arrow doesn't do that much to begin with. I found it very annoying.. Especially when you konsider the amount of work it takes to time the kombo at the right height and time the dash at the right time, etc... After more hours of testing, I found that I kould stuff the delay with a different string but then I kouldn't tell if there was only two possible timings for the wake up or three so I decided to post pone it. Also, I wasn't sure what timings overlapped between Wake Up Scoop and Trident Rush..

So, just be sure to learn from my experience. Test the recording on yourself to make sure something works and test delayed wake ups.

PS: Also let me know if there's two or three different timings (or more) if you do happen to do that.. lol.

Thanks for that advice man, I have tested with delayed wake ups and recordings versus myself and sonic pound hits em before they can attempt anything. Still got more to go, I'll keep you posted for tomorrow man!

 

[BoricuaHeat]

Red Reaper Yep you were right, tested the OTG at least a hundred times and it can be beaten if you delay your wake up to the last frame. But I did discover some cool stuff that I will post for tomorrow so I can at least keep my hopes up for that!

 

[Red Reaper]

Red Reaper Yep you were right, tested the OTG at least a hundred times and it can be beaten if you delay your wake up to the last frame. But I did discover some cool stuff that I will post for tomorrow so I can at least keep my hopes up for that!

Yeah. It's annoying but I guess it's good for the game since that means there's less BS... lol. Still I wish Aquaman didn't have that. He needs that weakness, at least against Arrow.

Look forward to your tech.