Quan Chi Matchup Discussion Thread

[1man3letters]

i dont think quan loses to jax, KL or CSZ

what you be your take on the KL and jaxs MUs?
also could i get your take on the radien and kenshi MUs?

 

[STB Shujinkydink]

what you be your take on the KL and jaxs MUs?
also could i get your take on the radien and kenshi MUs?

i personally like to think KL quan is 6-4 but the ex tele is kind of a problem so i think its 5-5. Quan can d1 trance the du3 which is a big part of KL's game.

Jax just isnt very good outside of the corner. you can uppercut most of his pressure, but his ground pound and zoning are a bit annoying.

Raiden is kinda awkward. I havnt played a good raiden lately so I need to do that before I post about that MU.

Kenshi sucks. its a 4-6. whiffed skydrop can get SC'd, and you cant really zone cuz of reflect.

1man3letters hope this helps!

 

[Deleted member 9158]

I find fighting people who know how to fuzzy guard his strings is easily solved by EX Rune.
mainly these :
>1 2 EX Rune
<3 12 EX Rune (this string needs to be blocked for the EX rune to work though)

I catch people all the time with this. Of course this is unreliable with lag, or if you have no meter. But they are options against people who know Quan's strings.

 

[STB Shujinkydink]

I find fighting people who know how to fuzzy guard his strings is easily solved by EX Rune.
mainly these :
>1 2 EX Rune
<3 12 EX Rune (this string needs to be blocked for the EX rune to work though)

I catch people all the time with this. Of course this is unreliable with lag, or if you have no meter. But they are options against people who know Quan's strings.

sometimes doing b3 12 regular rune works if they try to do anything but block

 

[NKZero]

Sub Zero 5:5
Mileena 5:5
Nightwolf 6:4
Sektor 5:5

I think Sektor is 4-6 as is Sub Zero.

Sektor can punish even max range trance. His footsies are far superior. Even though Quan's skull is a great zoning tool Sektor's missile causes knockdown so they cancel each other out. Quan cannot use teleport shenanigans because Sektor has a 6 frame jab. For me 6-4 is a slight advantage so yeah I think Sektor edges it. Quan's saving grace is a low hit-box but 12B1 should only be used to punish if you are a Sektor player.

Sub Zero completely negates Quan's mobility with sky drop. By having a clone on screen, Quan Chi can only teleport in one place and Sub Zero will know where that is and punish. When Quan is cornered he is in big trouble especially since he lacks armour. You can try outzoning Sub for a while put you will corner yourself. Plus he has no answer for Sub's D4.

I don't know about the Nightwolf match so I do not necessarily doubt the 6-4 in Quan's favour. Just wanna know why that is the case?

 

[HGTV DrFlash44]

I think Sektor is 4-6 as is Sub Zero.

Sektor can punish even max range trance. His footsies are far superior. Even though Quan's skull is a great zoning tool Sektor's missile causes knockdown so they cancel each other out. Quan cannot use teleport shenanigans because Sektor has a 6 frame jab. For me 6-4 is a slight advantage so yeah I think Sektor edges it. Quan's saving grace is a low hit-box but 12B1 should only be used to punish if you are a Sektor player.

Sub Zero completely negates Quan's mobility with sky drop. By having a clone on screen, Quan Chi can only teleport in one place and Sub Zero will know where that is and punish. When Quan is cornered he is in big trouble especially since he lacks armour. You can try outzoning Sub for a while put you will corner yourself. Plus he has no answer for Sub's D4.

I don't know about the Nightwolf match so I do not necessarily doubt the 6-4 in Quan's favour. Just wanna know why that is the case?

Here's one huge think that is huge in the subzero matchup. Quan chi can crouch block under standing 2 and b1 and then uppercut subzero out of everything. So Quan Chi can literally sit anywhere crouch blocking. The only thing that he can do is d4 when he doesn't have the life lead. He can't even fwd4, because quan chi can uppercut him out of it on reaction. Without this it would be 6-4 sz but its 5-5 because of that and btw qcs ex skydrop has armor. And quan chi is 5-5 sektor because within trance range quan chi can trance sektor out of all missles and even teleport. It is risky, but quan chi is a risky/reward character. Plus when quan chi sees an ex missle he can trance sektor and win the trade. Quan Chi barely beats nw, because one of nws big things is that he can check you with random shoulders which are safe on block, but punishable on crouch. Quan Chi can punish a blocked shoulder with a rune trap, which can be 52% garenteed damage on a move that is normally safe. Plus quan chi out zones nightwolf because at full screen quan chi can spam skulls. If nightwolf reflects a skull quan chi can just throw another which makes the first one disapear. It also is fast enough so nw won't be able to get off a lightning or arrow, which are very slow. He also might be able to duck shoulder crouch blocking, but I'm not sure.

 

[NKZero]

Here's one huge think that is huge in the subzero matchup. Quan chi can crouch block under standing 2 and b1 and then uppercut subzero out of everything. So Quan Chi can literally sit anywhere crouch blocking. The only thing that he can do is d4 when he doesn't have the life lead. He can't even fwd4, because quan chi can uppercut him out of it on reaction. Without this it would be 6-4 sz but its 5-5 because of that and btw qcs ex skydrop has armor. And quan chi is 5-5 sektor because within trance range quan chi can trance sektor out of all missles and even teleport. It is risky, but quan chi is a risky/reward character. Plus when quan chi sees an ex missle he can trance sektor and win the trade. Quan Chi barely beats nw, because one of nws big things is that he can check you with random shoulders which are safe on block, but punishable on crouch. Quan Chi can punish a blocked shoulder with a rune trap, which can be 52% garenteed damage on a move that is normally safe. Plus quan chi out zones nightwolf because at full screen quan chi can spam skulls. If nightwolf reflects a skull quan chi can just throw another which makes the first one disapear. It also is fast enough so nw won't be able to get off a lightning or arrow, which are very slow. He also might be able to duck shoulder crouch blocking, but I'm not sure.

Thanks for taking time to answer this.

I don't think EX sky drop makes a difference. In fact even without clone, Sub Zero (or any character for that matter) doesn't really have to worry about the sky drop that much. The fact that you are wasting a bar of meter (which Quan can ill afford to do) just to break the ice clone kinda sucks. Or if you hit me with it, you used a bar and I've been knocked down so you can't go into mix-ups or rune trap. Also Sub Zero doesn't need to F4. Yes Quan can avoid his strings but a well placed 224 cannot be uppercuted and you have to respect the second 2 in the 22 string. I still maintain 6-4. I mean, what the hell can Quan Chi do when he's cornered. Nothing.

I think you made an excellent case for Quan Chi going even with Sektor. I just realised that trance negates the missile set-ups and Quan will win trades like that. Skull is too risky to instant air teleport uppercut (you'd have to guess you cannot do it on reaction I think) and skull comes out quicker than straight missile. I originally had it even then changed it but yeah you are right. So 5-5 is good.

How can Quan Chi punish a shoulder with rune trap on block? If shoulder is blocked it is safe so then Nightwolf has to respect a D3 for example and if that is blocked you are at disadvantage. If I counter-poke and hit you in crouching state I am at +10. It is just a matter of making the right read in this situation. You can neutral crouch shoulder and punish but there's no reason to throw out shoulders other than to punish a trance on block or something. Plus Nightwolf can get in any time using EX shoulder but you are right in that skull is a real pain in the neck for Nightwolf to deal with. I cannot give a number. Maybe Shujinkydink or L0rdoftheFLY can shed some light on this. I respect your opinion but perhaps they have something as well.

 

[M2Dave]

Insuperable, Shujinkydink, how's Freddy vs. Quan Chi? This is one of the few match ups that I am clueless about as a Freddy player.

 

[GNG Iniquity]

btw qcs ex skydrop has armor.

Just curious, but why would you recommend using this? I put in the top 5 worst usages of meter in the game. Yeah, if your opponent's not aware of it, then they'll try to rush you down; but if they're aware that they can block it and destroy you for using it (just like regular skydrop) then it's going to cost you. I've won with it before, but I would never use it as a serious tool in my arsenal.

I would agree with SZ being a 6-4 once he gets you in the corner though. Midscreen is a definite 5-5 though.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Nw quan is either 6-4 for nw or maybe 5-5.

Skull being reflected is not free for quan because I can dash forward on start up and be three quarter screen by the time it reflects and if he tries his tricky skull cancel I can reflect the next one which he can't avoid.

Sky drop isn't scary and all nw needs to look out for is footsies into trance and rune trap. A blocked trance gets a shoulder or full combo. All quan chi needs is one touch and it could be over so nw HAS to go for babies to win. I don't need meter in this MU except for breaker...and that's a good thing.

 

[STB Shujinkydink]

the one to ask about quan/nw would be Under_The_Mayo he plays a fantastic NW on an almost daily basis and knows the MU in and out. Ive played alot with ripcrowley and a few games with BigD, and I would say its pretty even. The skull reflect glitch doesnt really help quan out much other than meter, and unless your throwing I think its 33 skulls for a bar then ya no.

m2dave Freddy quan i believe we have at 6-4 freddy. its tough for quan to get in as he cant skydrop your projectiles on reaction. he cant jump in at you obviously, and F12 can get stuffed by ex ground spike, which sucks. Random trances are quans friend in this MU, as well as Naked ex runes to stun to help get in, but this MU is insanely hard. I hate it lmao

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

Thanks for taking time to answer this.


How can Quan Chi punish a shoulder with rune trap on block? If shoulder is blocked it is safe so then Nightwolf has to respect a D3 for example and if that is blocked you are at disadvantage. If I counter-poke and hit you in crouching state I am at +10. It is just a matter of making the right read in this situation. You can neutral crouch shoulder and punish but there's no reason to throw out shoulders other than to punish a trance on block or something. Plus Nightwolf can get in any time using EX shoulder but you are right in that skull is a real pain in the neck for Nightwolf to deal with. I cannot give a number. Maybe Shujinkydink or L0rdoftheFLY can shed some light on this. I respect your opinion but perhaps they have something as well.

I think NW Quan is in NW`s favor because NW can just become a brick wall against him. His uppercut, the safe hatchet, punishing blocked trances from afar with shoulders. Quan doesn`t have a great way to get in on a NW that isn`t being wreckless. And up close, NW out pressures Quan and Quan`s slow normals and lack of defensive specials really start to hurt him. It`s still possible to outplay him though. Baiting a hatchet and punishing on whiff. If you block a shoulder you could start a 1 1 RUNE punish and then you`re in control. And there`s always the random factor of landing a trance or making a good read on NJP into a full rune trap. If we`re talking simply tools, NW has the fight. But if Quan can exploit something or make a good read, he can be devastating. As is the case with most of his matchup. But also, like Fly said, NW doesn`t need to use his meter much to fight Quan, so he gets to save for breaker. And that`s an advantage.

 

[HGTV DrFlash44]

Thanks for taking time to answer this.

I don't think EX sky drop makes a difference. In fact even without clone, Sub Zero (or any character for that matter) doesn't really have to worry about the sky drop that much. The fact that you are wasting a bar of meter (which Quan can ill afford to do) just to break the ice clone kinda sucks. Or if you hit me with it, you used a bar and I've been knocked down so you can't go into mix-ups or rune trap. Also Sub Zero doesn't need to F4. Yes Quan can avoid his strings but a well placed 224 cannot be uppercuted and you have to respect the second 2 in the 22 string. I still maintain 6-4. I mean, what the hell can Quan Chi do when he's cornered. Nothing.

I think you made an excellent case for Quan Chi going even with Sektor. I just realised that trance negates the missile set-ups and Quan will win trades like that. Skull is too risky to instant air teleport uppercut (you'd have to guess you cannot do it on reaction I think) and skull comes out quicker than straight missile. I originally had it even then changed it but yeah you are right. So 5-5 is good.

How can Quan Chi punish a shoulder with rune trap on block? If shoulder is blocked it is safe so then Nightwolf has to respect a D3 for example and if that is blocked you are at disadvantage. If I counter-poke and hit you in crouching state I am at +10. It is just a matter of making the right read in this situation. You can neutral crouch shoulder and punish but there's no reason to throw out shoulders other than to punish a trance on block or something. Plus Nightwolf can get in any time using EX shoulder but you are right in that skull is a real pain in the neck for Nightwolf to deal with. I cannot give a number. Maybe Shujinkydink or L0rdoftheFLY can shed some light on this. I respect your opinion but perhaps they have something as well.

Aight dude nice conversation, but I'm still thinking it as a 5-5, and if you wanna see more @TomBrady (hope that's right) did a whole video on this matchup saying that it was like 7-3 quan a while back. Its not obviously not in quan's favor, but he does put out some good arguments

 

[HGTV DrFlash44]

Just curious, but why would you recommend using this? I put in the top 5 worst usages of meter in the game. Yeah, if your opponent's not aware of it, then they'll try to rush you down; but if they're aware that they can block it and destroy you for using it (just like regular skydrop) then it's going to cost you. I've won with it before, but I would never use it as a serious tool in my arsenal.

I would agree with SZ being a 6-4 once he gets you in the corner though. Midscreen is a definite 5-5 though.

I no its a waste of meter its just that in NKZero first comment he said that quan chi didn't have armor and I was just claryfying

 

[NKZero]

I think NW Quan is in NW`s favor because NW can just become a brick wall against him. His uppercut, the safe hatchet, punishing blocked trances from afar with shoulders. Quan doesn`t have a great way to get in on a NW that isn`t being wreckless. And up close, NW out pressures Quan and Quan`s slow normals and lack of defensive specials really start to hurt him. It`s still possible to outplay him though. Baiting a hatchet and punishing on whiff. If you block a shoulder you could start a 1 1 RUNE punish and then you`re in control. And there`s always the random factor of landing a trance or making a good read on NJP into a full rune trap. If we`re talking simply tools, NW has the fight. But if Quan can exploit something or make a good read, he can be devastating. As is the case with most of his matchup. But also, like Fly said, NW doesn`t need to use his meter much to fight Quan, so he gets to save for breaker. And that`s an advantage.

Thanks man great answer.

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

Thanks man great answer.

It's like Brady said in one of his tier lists. Some characters have to actually deal with Nightwolf's bullshit. Quan is one of them.

 

[M2Dave]

m2dave Freddy quan i believe we have at 6-4 freddy. its tough for quan to get in as he cant skydrop your projectiles on reaction. he cant jump in at you obviously, and F12 can get stuffed by ex ground spike, which sucks. Random trances are quans friend in this MU, as well as Naked ex runes to stun to help get in, but this MU is insanely hard. I hate it lmao

I'm honestly not convinced. Quan Ch's stomp is highly punishable, but its hitbox is very good and you can control where you land. It hits spikes on the way down and leads to mix ups. The most dangerpus scenario for a Freddy player is getting stomped on when Quan Chi has three full bars. However, Freddy has his own advantages in the match up without a doubt. Maybe I just don't know this match up very well. Add me as m2dave on PSN, so we can play. We'll both learn something.

 

[STB Shujinkydink]

I'm honestly not convinced. Quan Ch's stomp is highly punishable, but its hitbox is very good and you can control where you land. It hits spikes on the way down and leads to mix ups. The most dangerpus scenario for a Freddy player is getting stomped on when Quan Chi has three full bars. However, Freddy has his own advantages in the match up without a doubt. Maybe I just don't know this match up very well. Add me as m2dave on PSN, so we can play. We'll both learn something.

I dont have PSN ill have to play you at EVO if your going

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

Anyone want to give me the Cage matchup breakdown? I'm finding it to be awful. D3 goes under Cage's F3.

 

[HGTV DrFlash44]

Anyone want to give me the Cage matchup breakdown? I'm finding it to be awful. D3 goes under Cage's F3.

Considering that my friend Soapboxfan is one of the best cage's out there I can.Your objective in this matchup is to not be touched. Johnny Cage's pressure is the problem in this matchup. You can keep Johnny Cage out slightly with skulls, but for not very long. Unfortunately you're only gonna poke out of forward 3 with d3, so unfortunately if you read a forward 3 and you wanna get out you gotta use and uppercut and take you're trance on wakeup mixup or not or just take the distance. If you get the 7 frame d3 out fast enough you will poke. So if you can poke out with d3. What I do is go d3 ex rune right into the rune trap on block or not. This is huge in the matchup and others as if you get out you could be getting out of pressure with a rune trap. Long range he can't ever throw a forceball because you can teleport punish on reaction fairly easily. I also like to use medium random ex runes to keep him in check only if I can afford the use of a bar. Also stay ready on your antiairs at all times and make sure you capitalize with 1 trance or something into trance only uppercut on panic after a bad reaction. You can also play some footsies, because of your f12 leading into a rune trap, but don't wiff a lot of f1s, because you can b3 you out of your string. Also Johnny Cage can never f32, because the 2 will wiff on qcs crouch blocking hitbox. With a lot of mu experience I only put it at 6-4 jc. Hopes this helps.

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

Im just gonna summarize what i think flash ment, as it was a little confusing. Basically from over half screen you can throw skulls. Pay attention though, as sometimes cage players, including myself will trade with you with a forceball to see how you react. You can teleport these on reaction, so no issue there. once cage walks forward and ducks your skull or jumps one at a good time, and he gets to jumping distance, stop throwing projectiles. This spacing depends on how the round will turn out. If you have meter, you CAN compete with jc footsies. If he plays aggressively and you read a d3 into pressure, you can actually quickly take a step back or slight dash and b3, which will go over the d3. If you read a fwd3 string, you are just going to have to be walking back and wiff punish with at least a blockstring, which will get you meter, or a rune trap if you already have it, since fwd 3 is actually hard to wiff punish. Once cage knows that he cannot just get in for free, he will play much more defensively and try to bait something form you. This is where that random ex rune that flash was talking about comes in. When cage plays footsies with quan, he is going to be at a farther distance than he is vs most of the cast, because he cannot afford to block a fwd 12 (the advancing string if i got the actual move wrong) when quan has meter. This puts him at a range where ex middle rune will normally hit him. Take that damage, and use the advantage off of hit to get some space and build more meter, unless it looks like cage is somehow in range of a rune trap. Take all the damage you can get from all situations, and if you ever hit jc, it is generally not a good idea to try many gimmicky resets that i c quan players do. If he reverses your pressure, bad things will happen, so just take your maximum damage and run, unless you need to make a huge comeback. If cage knocks you down, from a random shadow kick or whatever, dont try to get up with an ex tele, as jc can just poke with a single hit of a string and still punish the tleport. If cage does this, get up block the hit, and then d3 since they are only doing one hit, and take a block string, create space, and try to build more meter. It ll comes down to meter, as does all of qcs mus. If quan has meter, he can put cage in a bad place. if he doesnt have meter, jc can pretty much run him over. The difficulty is that building meter in this mu can be difficult for quan to do while still keeping cage out. Therefore i put the matchup as 6 4 cage. If anybody has a question or doesnt understand, just reply or send me a pm.

 

[HGTV DrFlash44]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe if you block the B+3, and you have a fast low poke, you can poke out before the 1+2

yes, but I can do b33 which you won't be able to poke out of.

 

[STB Shujinkydink]

yes, but I can do b33 which you won't be able to poke out of.

did u just say...b33?

 

[HGTV DrFlash44]

did u just say...b33?

yes, the string isn't completely useless, if you read that they are going to poke or armor out of b3 1+2 you can do b33 which can't interupted

 

[Primal Raptor]

um, no. subzero is a very ddifficult matchup for quan. any quan