What's new

Strategy Preventing past mistakes

Ryu Hayabusa

Filthy Casual
Yet my point still stands

You can't say zoners were the face of injustice.

Wonder Woman's one flaw was she didn't have a full screen presence. ONE flaw over the many pros she had
Her projectile was pretty at close range, she had to wait for it to return, which her opponent plenty if time to punish her. I think it was unsafe on hit at certain range, I could wrong about this.

Her trait was also uses, it was death sentence if you accidentally pressed the trait button.
 

Ryu Hayabusa

Filthy Casual
Batgirl did not need zoning to be strong. Superman rarely actually zoned post patch against top tiers (very MU specific). Bane did not zone. WoWo did not need to zone. Flash did not zone. AM zoning was weak and very situational.

The list of characters that did not need to zone to be strong goes on a while. I don't even need a long reply to prove your theory wrong.
Batgirl had tools which made her opponents respect her no matter where she was on screen.

Whether superman players relayed on zoning is quite irrelevant. He had one of strongest full screen zoning tools.

Martians manhunter himself was a zoner with a teleport.

Didn't play much of bane.

Spam =/= zoning alone.

Flash didn't need zoning, he had other spamming tools.

Which move of Wonder Woman was spammable?
 

Ryu Hayabusa

Filthy Casual
Lots of pushback on block, great for chipping out people on the last bit of their health bar. Could be meterburned to make safe on whiff (assuming they're in range). Not good point blank by why the fk would you use it point blank.



Tell that to Elite Goomba. Not useless and it had its gimmicks that no one bothered to look into so they worked every time. Also how are you hitting the trait button on accident?
You just listed universal properties of projectiles in injustice but doesn't change the fact her projectile was shit tier which was unsafe on hit at certain range.


How many tournaments elite goomba won using shield and sword stance? Going for Shield and sword gimmick cost KDZ a match against batman player who was on pixel of health.
 

Crusty

Retired forever; don’t ask for games.
Batgirl had tools which made her opponents respect her no matter where she was on screen.

Whether superman players relayed on zoning is quite irrelevant. He had one of strongest full screen zoning tools.

Martians manhunter himself was a zoner with a teleport.

Didn't play much of bane.

Spam =/= zoning alone.

Flash didn't need zoning, he had other spamming tools.

Which move of Wonder Woman was spammable?
You know I have low opinion of people who incorporate the word spam in FGs

There is no "spam".
 

Ryu Hayabusa

Filthy Casual
You know I have low opinion of people who incorporate the word spam in FGs

There is no "spam".
It's not all about you, I couldn't give a shit about your opinion. You are nobody on internet, must as well write something on a piece of paper and throw it out the window for all the good it will do.
 

Ryu Hayabusa

Filthy Casual
At least he has the decency to not comment on Banes zoning since hes unfamiliar with it :DOGE
It's like you have the vague outline of a criticism in your mind but are unsure as to how to fill up that outline to make it substantial or worthwhile. Some would say you just want to complain. Are you still mad about what happened in Injustice thread.
 

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
If WoWo was do broken how come she didn't destroy anyone 9-1.
You don't have beat anyone 9-1 to be broken.

Mk9 kabal was broke and he didn't beat anyone 9-1. I think most of his MUs were 7-3s IIRC.

Not saying WoWo was broken but she was super ridiculous lol. Let's not downplay that
 

Crusty

Retired forever; don’t ask for games.
It's not all about you, I couldn't give a shit about your opinion. You are nobody on internet, must as well write something on a piece of paper and throw it out the window for all the good it will do.
I'm going to say this one last time before you get on my nerves.

Zoning in injustice might have been a force but the game wasn't catered towards it. You have no right to complain about zoning in a game with characters that had safe anti-zoning tools.

You have no further right to complain about WoWo just because she didn't have spammable moves (God that word is disgusting). She didn't have good projectiles nor a full screen presence but you're dead in the corner with her should you guess wrong.

Need I further add a character's results in tourney don't determine how good or bad they are, it's the number of advantageous Mu they have as well as knowledge of the opponent they might face.

Do you comprehend, or do I have to put you on ignore like every other scrub I've come to know?
 

Ryu Hayabusa

Filthy Casual
I'm going to say this one last time before you get on my nerves.

Zoning in injustice might have been a force but the game wasn't catered towards it. You have no right to complain about zoning in a game with characters that had safe anti-zoning tools.

You have no further right to complain about WoWo just because she didn't have spammable moves (God that word is disgusting). She didn't have good projectiles nor a full screen presence but you're dead in the corner with her should you guess wrong.

Need I further add a character's results in tourney don't determine how good or bad they are, it's the number of advantageous Mu they have as well as knowledge of the opponent they might face.

Do you comprehend, or do I have to put you on ignore like every other scrub I've come to know?
I understood everything you said, you have yet to say anything that went over my head.

You manage to type a lot of philosophical words without ever managing to talk about the WoWo or her issues at all. It's almost like you don't have a single way of reinforcing your position with facts. I wasn't looking to be friends with you anyway. Good riddance
 

Meep8345

Noob
Safe 50/50's I can deal with but plus 50/50's are cancer and shouldn't exist. The real problem with the game imo isn't really the 50/50's it's the lack of good reliable AA's,far advancing mids that go into pressure, and the run mechanic. It's too easy for people to get in and there's a million ways to mess with the other player that's trying to punish a run. Run in jip,cancel the run into your fastest and farthest reaching normal, cancel your run and back up getting them to whiff their normal,etc.
 

Ryu Hayabusa

Filthy Casual
And yet here you are, complaining about "spam" in a fighting game. Don't change E>
You wanna talk WoWo specifics? Fine.

One of the best ranged normals at a relatively fast speed that's overhead and safe on block and, against most characters, whiff.
Low starter that is plus on block (33 is +2)
Staggers that are plus on block, leading to 50/50 or more pressure
Very fast poke (6f) that can be converted into 40+% into oki or OTG which leads into another 50/50 that can lead to the same outcome
Good reaching, advancing, mid hitting normal that is a great whiff punisher and is plus, leading to staggers (b1 is +4, b11 is +3)
OTGing air bomb that leaves great hit AND block advantage, leading to pressure or 50/50 of your choice, can be MB'd in the corner to get a combo that can get you another OTG
One of the best air dashes in the game
D3 can blow up a LOT of character's wakeup due to stupidly reduced hurtbox.

Your character doesn't need zoning to be good in Injustice dude
We have already been through this, things you have listed do not make her broken. It's like you people are living in an echo chamber and refuse to listen to outsiders.
I will always be astounded at the propensity for causal obfuscation people deliberately undertake in the pursuit of something they have already determined despite evidence to the contrary. Fascinating.
 

Crusty

Retired forever; don’t ask for games.
We have already been through this, things you have listed do not make her broken. It's like you people are living in an echo chamber and refuse to listen to outsiders.
I will always be astounded at the propensity for causal obfuscation people deliberately undertake in the pursuit of something they have already determined despite evidence to the contrary. Fascinating.
Confirmed beyond help.

Please ignore for the sake of your sanity people
 

Meep8345

Noob
We have already been through this, things you have listed do not make her broken. It's like you people are living in an echo chamber and refuse to listen to outsiders.
I will always be astounded at the propensity for causal obfuscation people deliberately undertake in the pursuit of something they have already determined despite evidence to the contrary. Fascinating.
Bruh I didn't play injustice but just listen to that nonsense. Plus on block low starter,poke that converts to 40% and is 6f, good mid, plus on block staggers,d3 blowing up peoples wake up because of low profiling so you get guarenteed pressure pratically, and a safe overhead. Doesnt matter if she gets zoned you'd probably find your way in and then it's GG unless they make really good reads with tools like that.
 

KingHippo

Alternative-Fact Checker
The point that you're missing, as well as the matches linked, is that this isn't a handful of free coin flips into advantage.
And neither is MKX, at least from the very top levels I see. Someone has to establish an advantage early, it just so happens in MKX that it can happen at a much faster rate because mobility is so good. This is why the guys who are really top (this is a small amount) are good at controlling the screen to where they can hit you out of movement.

Let alone, those games aren't anywhere on the level of MKX's level of fuckery and those games HAD defense options unlike this game.
SF2 Super Turbo, the first game I linked, has random dizzy, random damage, frame advantage as high as +9 on most normals and throws that are 1 frame with massive range and damage. To reversal when you are knocked down, you have a timing window that is often said to be from 1-3 frames to actually get your move out, which is almost completely impossible without doing a negative edge input to get around it. This game is still widely played today. Bottom line, "fuckery" is not keeping people from the game, just like it won't keep people from playing this game

The point is that in this game, it isn't just the top tier having access to top tier tools. Its like 95% of the roster with the ability to freely do this without consequence
This is the best way, often, to achieve the balance that so many of the troglodytes on the forum cry for. By spreading the wealth, you often get even lower characters who can absolutely crush you if you don't know what you're doing. Case in point:


Q in SF3: Third Strike is considered a not very good character, but in the hands of a player like Kuroda, the universal design options like extremely high damage and parry can help him overcome what would normally be massive defects in the character design. Suffice it to say, I think you will find that the majority of people prefer that the game let them rock on an even playing field rather than letting the top tier have their fun and only them.

You can't say top tier exclusive 50/50's in other FG's is the same as damn near everyone in this game being able to do the same exact thing.
Then what's the freaking problem? This, again, sounds like more of a defect in your thinking, rather than a legit flaw with the game. I'll be the first to admit that I don't play MKX because I don't like the delayed getup and I think it's largely ineffective and makes the midrange game a little too soul crushing, but I also am willing to say that this is largely my problem and that it doesn't really break the game. I just won't play it. Like I wish a lot of geeks on the forum would just not play it instead of having to listen to their design docs that are dripping with ignorance and too much glad-handling of MK9.
 

KingHippo

Alternative-Fact Checker
My last point is that there is no doubt that as the games have progressed, the little nuances are getting tightened up. We no longer have brutal bugs like meter drain glitch or the input bug, we don't have characters who barely function at anything below low level, and we have an online that is right up there with the best of them now. Things have gotten a lot better on that front.

What we still have is a small community that is dominated by an amount of players you can count your fingers on because the community is still largely mediocre at the game. My hope is that with I2 being a legacy game the gap will get smaller, but it's massive right now and I think a large part of that is due to people doing their damndest to design a game that is not MKX instead of playing MKX. We have salty players from a bygone era who'd rather say they'd beat Sonic Fox in MK9 then take him down now. How stupid.