Vengeance135
Saltiest Joker Player
Hey guys,
I was asked to update my chart so I'm doing just that. This is my thoughts now with the release of starfire.
I'm making this chart to show where joker stands (in my personal opinion at least), as well as, open up discussion about what some people may or may not know they can or can't do against joker.
In will give a brief description of the main reasons I feel these are the way they are. Further discussion can take place in the thread below
Again this is MY PERSONAL OPINION and this list is made UNDER THE ASSUMPTION the player versing the joker KNOWS THE MU. Delayed wake ups do have a HUGE NEGATIVE impact on jokers corner game as well.
So let's get this started:
Atrocitus 4-6 Atrocitus favor: Atrocitus has great normals and strings, most forward advancing, and beat out jokers neutral. While trait is active, much like others, Joker has no response to the atrocitus pressure outside of pushblock and parry. Parry is super risky though cause if baited, ggs.
Aquaman 6-4 joker's favor: this MU is pretty simple now. Joker outcomes aquaman, controls space better and ultimately forces aquaman to play jokers game.
Poison ivy 4-6 Ivy favor: she can keep joker out efficiently, has better normals, pressure and bully him on wake up. His saving grace, she has no reliable wake ups other then delayed wake up but joker can work around that.
Deadshot 3-7 or worse Deadshot's favor: very simple, all he has to do is zone. Jokers close, b1 pressure or even wait until joker touches him, pushblock the blocked attack and joker has to do it all over again. Due to Deadshot's great wake up mixed with delayed wake up, Joker can't really bully deadshot in the corner.
Cheetah 4-6 Cheetah's favor: realistically I want to say it's worse but I can't. The biggest problem in this MU is so much of jokers stuff whiffs on her. If stuff didn't whiff on her 5-5 for sure. She can bully joker on wake up free, lunge attacks, if anticipated, can beat jokers jumps or trade. She gets one clean hit and joker has to chase her the entire match.
Grodd 6-4 Jokers favor: joker does an excellent job of keeping grodd out. Grodd can bully joker on wake up and with trait active, gun shot is useless, making a forward approach a bit more manageable.
Superman 3-7 Supermans favor: superman beats joker at every part of the screen period. He just can't do it brainlessly. Superman can also punish things other characters can't (like crowbar.)
Red Hood 4-6 Red hoods favor: I actually use red hood on the side as well. Red hood is basically a better joker.
Batman 4-6 Batmans favor. Batman's trait IS the highlight as to why joker loses this MU.
Harley Quinn 5-5 the compete equally at all parts of the screen in my experience and the MU is pretty momentum based as well.
Green Lantern 4-6 Lanterns favor: Lantern has a better neutral, easier safe pressure and overall better normals.
Flash 4-6 Flash favor: on top of jokers whiff issues that severely effect this MU, the flash out damages joker and can dictate how joker plays due to jokers genuine unsafeness. He also obliterates joker on knock down and his D2 prevents joker from even trying to jump.
Catwoman 4-6 Catwoman favor: everything about this MU is still annoying. Most of jokers tools whiff on her, he can't bully her on wake up or in the corner. Her b3 low profiles more then half of jokers tools and her walk speed is insane. She still beats joker everywhere.
Cyborg 5-5: to me, this MU feels a lot like a whoever gets the first hit can dictate how it's going to go kind of thing.
Swamp Thing: 6-4 Jokers Favor, I personally think swamp thing has a better close quarters game vs joker but jokers zoning is pretty efficient in this MU.
Supergirl 3-7 Supergirl favor: her mobility is insane vs joker. Her D2 is amazing in this fight. She gets him in the corner and it's a gg. Joker has no real counter to her corner pressure other then pushblock but since joker has fast or reliable normals. She can keep joker in the corner and in check once he's there. Joker can't zone efficiently either do to her teleport and she outdamages joker now.
Green Arrow HARD 4-6 Arrows favor: I want to say this is worse but I'm stubborn. Arrow can outzone joker easy. Doesn't have to really worry about jokers setups and he wins the sky.
Dr Fate 3-7 or worse Dr Fates favor: this is the Zod/Joker MU of injustice 2. I want to say 2-8 but if joker can get that first hit, Joker can have a chance. A slim chance, nonetheless a fighting chance. I didn't believe it until Bdon and I played.
Blue Beetle 4-6 beetles favor: beetle can control space very well on a health lead. He has a good wake up vs joker and in the corner can like joker up with flight cancels mixed with his overhead low. Joker has to be patient and efficient if he wants to win this one. Also beetles trait does a phenomal job keeping joker out and out of the skies.
Firestorm 4-6 firestorm favor: he controls space way better then joker can and joker pretty much has to chase him around. I can be more specific then this, just ask though. im getting tired of typing lol
Black Canary 5-5: in my opinion, Joker has the tools to keep her out effectively. Of course, Joker had to be smart about it because if she gets in, goodbye health bar, but this is one of those MU's that I feel joker can control space fairly well for the duration of the Match. She annihilates him on wake up though and out damages him.
Darkseid 4-6 Darkseids favor. Darkseid can zone effectively, and rush joker down just as bad. Darkseid has a great wake up tool and, with trait out especially, Joker has to win by making good reads and capitalizing any mistakes made by darkseid. His damage is amazing per confirm.
Wonder Woman 3-7 wonder woman favor: she doesn't need to deal with jokers zoning, she doesn't need to deal with is setups, she outranges him and in the corner, she can abuse him with so much. Her neutral is out of his league in this MU.
Black Adam 4-6 Black Adams favor: with the nerfs black Adam received to damage and trait, joker can compete a bit more. Adam still has a stronger neutral and outdamages joker. He also can maneuver around jokers zoning as well. jokers way to win, corner him and keep him there or pray they can't block the setups.
Captain cold 5-5: this is another MU that I feel is dictated on whoever gets the first hit.
Robin 4-6 Robins favor: robin outranges joker, out damages joker and obliterates joker in the corner. Joker can't zone robin for a long period of time due to robin's trait batarangs, the blue one and yellow one. Once cornered robin can abuse trait and his range while joker pretty much holds it.
Scarecrow 4-6 Crows favor: crow outranges joker, has a stronger neutral and, once corners joker, annihiliates him. Jokers best way to win is run, whiff punish and stay out of the corner.
Bane 4-6 Banes favor: banes armor nullifies set up potential period. Joker has to rely on running away and not getting cornered or knocked down.
Brainiac- 4-6 brainiacs favor. This one's pretty simple. Brainiac owns the sky with his mobility, high priority dive kick and jump mixs. He out damages joker, outranges joker and trait helps him ignore jokers zoning and get in.
Starfire 3-7 (possibly worse) Starfires favor: another simple one. She outdamages joker, outzones joker, has strong wakeups, great range, powerful trait. I mean she just dumps on joker. This mu is a joke lol
Sub-Zero- due to the split within the joker community and the never-ending argument I'm choosing not to put it down lol
Let me know what you guys think!
I was asked to update my chart so I'm doing just that. This is my thoughts now with the release of starfire.
I'm making this chart to show where joker stands (in my personal opinion at least), as well as, open up discussion about what some people may or may not know they can or can't do against joker.
In will give a brief description of the main reasons I feel these are the way they are. Further discussion can take place in the thread below
Again this is MY PERSONAL OPINION and this list is made UNDER THE ASSUMPTION the player versing the joker KNOWS THE MU. Delayed wake ups do have a HUGE NEGATIVE impact on jokers corner game as well.
So let's get this started:
Atrocitus 4-6 Atrocitus favor: Atrocitus has great normals and strings, most forward advancing, and beat out jokers neutral. While trait is active, much like others, Joker has no response to the atrocitus pressure outside of pushblock and parry. Parry is super risky though cause if baited, ggs.
Aquaman 6-4 joker's favor: this MU is pretty simple now. Joker outcomes aquaman, controls space better and ultimately forces aquaman to play jokers game.
Poison ivy 4-6 Ivy favor: she can keep joker out efficiently, has better normals, pressure and bully him on wake up. His saving grace, she has no reliable wake ups other then delayed wake up but joker can work around that.
Deadshot 3-7 or worse Deadshot's favor: very simple, all he has to do is zone. Jokers close, b1 pressure or even wait until joker touches him, pushblock the blocked attack and joker has to do it all over again. Due to Deadshot's great wake up mixed with delayed wake up, Joker can't really bully deadshot in the corner.
Cheetah 4-6 Cheetah's favor: realistically I want to say it's worse but I can't. The biggest problem in this MU is so much of jokers stuff whiffs on her. If stuff didn't whiff on her 5-5 for sure. She can bully joker on wake up free, lunge attacks, if anticipated, can beat jokers jumps or trade. She gets one clean hit and joker has to chase her the entire match.
Grodd 6-4 Jokers favor: joker does an excellent job of keeping grodd out. Grodd can bully joker on wake up and with trait active, gun shot is useless, making a forward approach a bit more manageable.
Superman 3-7 Supermans favor: superman beats joker at every part of the screen period. He just can't do it brainlessly. Superman can also punish things other characters can't (like crowbar.)
Red Hood 4-6 Red hoods favor: I actually use red hood on the side as well. Red hood is basically a better joker.
Batman 4-6 Batmans favor. Batman's trait IS the highlight as to why joker loses this MU.
Harley Quinn 5-5 the compete equally at all parts of the screen in my experience and the MU is pretty momentum based as well.
Green Lantern 4-6 Lanterns favor: Lantern has a better neutral, easier safe pressure and overall better normals.
Flash 4-6 Flash favor: on top of jokers whiff issues that severely effect this MU, the flash out damages joker and can dictate how joker plays due to jokers genuine unsafeness. He also obliterates joker on knock down and his D2 prevents joker from even trying to jump.
Catwoman 4-6 Catwoman favor: everything about this MU is still annoying. Most of jokers tools whiff on her, he can't bully her on wake up or in the corner. Her b3 low profiles more then half of jokers tools and her walk speed is insane. She still beats joker everywhere.
Cyborg 5-5: to me, this MU feels a lot like a whoever gets the first hit can dictate how it's going to go kind of thing.
Swamp Thing: 6-4 Jokers Favor, I personally think swamp thing has a better close quarters game vs joker but jokers zoning is pretty efficient in this MU.
Supergirl 3-7 Supergirl favor: her mobility is insane vs joker. Her D2 is amazing in this fight. She gets him in the corner and it's a gg. Joker has no real counter to her corner pressure other then pushblock but since joker has fast or reliable normals. She can keep joker in the corner and in check once he's there. Joker can't zone efficiently either do to her teleport and she outdamages joker now.
Green Arrow HARD 4-6 Arrows favor: I want to say this is worse but I'm stubborn. Arrow can outzone joker easy. Doesn't have to really worry about jokers setups and he wins the sky.
Dr Fate 3-7 or worse Dr Fates favor: this is the Zod/Joker MU of injustice 2. I want to say 2-8 but if joker can get that first hit, Joker can have a chance. A slim chance, nonetheless a fighting chance. I didn't believe it until Bdon and I played.
Blue Beetle 4-6 beetles favor: beetle can control space very well on a health lead. He has a good wake up vs joker and in the corner can like joker up with flight cancels mixed with his overhead low. Joker has to be patient and efficient if he wants to win this one. Also beetles trait does a phenomal job keeping joker out and out of the skies.
Firestorm 4-6 firestorm favor: he controls space way better then joker can and joker pretty much has to chase him around. I can be more specific then this, just ask though. im getting tired of typing lol
Black Canary 5-5: in my opinion, Joker has the tools to keep her out effectively. Of course, Joker had to be smart about it because if she gets in, goodbye health bar, but this is one of those MU's that I feel joker can control space fairly well for the duration of the Match. She annihilates him on wake up though and out damages him.
Darkseid 4-6 Darkseids favor. Darkseid can zone effectively, and rush joker down just as bad. Darkseid has a great wake up tool and, with trait out especially, Joker has to win by making good reads and capitalizing any mistakes made by darkseid. His damage is amazing per confirm.
Wonder Woman 3-7 wonder woman favor: she doesn't need to deal with jokers zoning, she doesn't need to deal with is setups, she outranges him and in the corner, she can abuse him with so much. Her neutral is out of his league in this MU.
Black Adam 4-6 Black Adams favor: with the nerfs black Adam received to damage and trait, joker can compete a bit more. Adam still has a stronger neutral and outdamages joker. He also can maneuver around jokers zoning as well. jokers way to win, corner him and keep him there or pray they can't block the setups.
Captain cold 5-5: this is another MU that I feel is dictated on whoever gets the first hit.
Robin 4-6 Robins favor: robin outranges joker, out damages joker and obliterates joker in the corner. Joker can't zone robin for a long period of time due to robin's trait batarangs, the blue one and yellow one. Once cornered robin can abuse trait and his range while joker pretty much holds it.
Scarecrow 4-6 Crows favor: crow outranges joker, has a stronger neutral and, once corners joker, annihiliates him. Jokers best way to win is run, whiff punish and stay out of the corner.
Bane 4-6 Banes favor: banes armor nullifies set up potential period. Joker has to rely on running away and not getting cornered or knocked down.
Brainiac- 4-6 brainiacs favor. This one's pretty simple. Brainiac owns the sky with his mobility, high priority dive kick and jump mixs. He out damages joker, outranges joker and trait helps him ignore jokers zoning and get in.
Starfire 3-7 (possibly worse) Starfires favor: another simple one. She outdamages joker, outzones joker, has strong wakeups, great range, powerful trait. I mean she just dumps on joker. This mu is a joke lol
Sub-Zero- due to the split within the joker community and the never-ending argument I'm choosing not to put it down lol
Let me know what you guys think!
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