Match-up Discussion Post-patch Match up List and Discussion

[Fred Marvel]

Can anyone help me with MMH I fought a really good one and I had not a single answer for that mu.His zoning seems to be a real problem. It feels kind of like a better version of Nightwings zoning. The MB pillars,

MMH bops lantern, Me and shockwave played this mu so many times shit is frustrating but winnable. 6-4 mmh imo

plus the traps and GL's over all bad walk speed make that match up a real problem for him.

yeah ive played a couple good manhunters and his zoning is really strong against lantern and air rocket cant be used so its a tough MU id say 6-4 its winnable but gah so much patience is needed have to make some good reads to get in because he can sit back all day with MB orbs overhead projectile and pillars

 

[afrozilla86]

Question, where can I find a good mmh to get matchup experience on psn? I usually play the person passively and learn as much about the tech and setups as possible then attempt to turn on the need to win drive after a round or two. If its really good tech, and mmh is as good as they say, then it will take a day to meditate on answers for the m.u so I might as well get blown up now instead of in the middle of a clan war.

 

[G4S KT]

MMH vs. Lantern is even

 

[187x]

MMH vs. Lantern is even

lmfao no it's not.

 

[Endeavor]

MMH vs. Lantern is even

KT please help me out with this mu. I have been having a lot of problems dealing with MMH zoning, and can you give me some tips on keeping him in good pressure?

 

[MkFinest]

MMH vs. Lantern is even

Lol No Thats 6-4 MMH.

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

I actually agree with KT here. The zoning isnt that terrible, just takes some patience.

 

[Orochi]

lmfao no it's not.

Lol No Thats 6-4 MMH.

How can you tell the man it's not when he's played sets with the best martian and goes pretty even.

 

[187x]

How can you tell the man it's not when he's played sets with the best martian and goes pretty even.

Because it's not. What has KT done with the char? you people make it seem like he's some god. lol
6-4 martian

 

[Endeavor]

Because it's not. What has KT done with the char? you people make it seem like he's some god. lol
6-4 martian

Not to dick ride or anything but seriously, I mean he is one of the best GLs out there, and the man has done pretty well for himself in tournaments, he has also beaten some of the best players in NY with the character and helps out a great deal with set ups and tech. Along with the fact that he has help with match up problems with a bunch of bad match ups that i personally have benefited from using his advice. And no, before I get attacked, I'm not saying all of this make him right and you wrong, but I am saying it makes for what he's saying carry a little more weight than most.

 

[187x]

If KT throws a random mu number then it means it's 100% accurate lol. The Dick riding to0 stronk.

 

[MkFinest]

How can you tell the man it's not when he's played sets with the best martian and goes pretty even.

If your going to quote me, Quote me with a fact not a opinion. Now i see what GGA 16 Bit was saying in chat about KT's upplaying lol. Imo that MU is not even. THTB what do you think about MMH and GL?

 

[Endeavor]

If KT throws a random mu number then it means it's 100% accurate lol. The Dick riding to0 stronk.

Its like you didnt even read my quote dude. You might very well be right, I actually really believe you, but before i say its a solid 6-4 I'd like to know I'm play the mu right.

 

[187x]

Its like you didnt even read my quote dude. You might very well be right, I actually really believe you, but before i say its a solid 6-4 I'd like to know I'm play the mu right.

Bro i read it.

 

[THTB]

If your going to quote me, Quote me with a fact not a opinion. Now i see what GGA 16 Bit was saying in chat about KT's upplaying lol. Imo that MU is not even. THTB what do you think about MMH and GL?

I think slight favor MMH, but my experience isn't as extensive as KT's (as well as most of you guys). From what I saw, it's not just the zoning. MMH in Dhalsim mode outfootsies GL pretty hard, since his 6f d1 gets extended as well. Also, MMH has solid mobility on top of this.

IMO it's not always about how well you keep GL out, it's moreso that he gets forced to approach that is the problem with characters who are able to play better from further out than he does. MMH does this well, and for moments, will play GL better in footsies. And it's why I feel his tougher matchups get so underplayed. Yeah, from where lift is law, he's a monster of a character and pretty much controls the screen well, and that's why his tough matchups aren't any worse. But be real for a second, he's not always going to have that position to be in that type of control in matchups that make him approach that position on their accord.

 

[Orochi]

If your going to quote me, Quote me with a fact not a opinion. Now i see what GGA 16 Bit was saying in chat about KT's upplaying lol. Imo that MU is not even. THTB what do you think about MMH and GL?

I don't understand? I gave you a fact which was he goes pretty even with REOs Martian and that's where he gets his numbers from, go look up the stream matches you might learn something, where do you get your numbers from? Online players?

Because it's not. What has KT done with the char? you people make it seem like he's some god. lol
6-4 martian

He's done more than you and I obviously. Don't treat him like a god, but KT has brought valuable information to the MU threads and strategies on matchups thought to be on the losing side, he has also played sets with the best MMH, he has earned his right to call the match even lol.

Online though I'll probably agree it's 6-4 because it's almost impossible to punish his grab giving MMH free mixups as he wishes.

 

[G4S KT]

KT please help me out with this mu. I have been having a lot of problems dealing with MMH zoning, and can you give me some tips on keeping him in good pressure?

you gotta get it into your head that his zoning is 75% illusion. In order for him to actually control space in a timely fashion he needs to burn meter on a read (EX pillar or EX jin fireball) the overhead fireball is ok but not going to keep a turbine attempted contained very well.

At full screen you're not as helpless as against others; you can still threaten MMH significantly. You basically have 2 options, look for a spot to trade with standing rocket or make a read on when he's taking a breath from pressing buttons to turbine forward. I know this stuff isn't entirely safe but to quote PL WELCOME TO FIGHTING GAMES. The risk/reward is about even from this position; both characters need to make reads that aren't safe. The only difference is if you try to be passive he can chip you to death. Also, don't try to move after a full screen fireball, pillar is a frame trap.

Air rockets aren't entirely out of the question. If you jump and he pre-emptively does sektor teleport a j1 will often trade or beat him clean, keeping him honest. I wouldn't go around trying to throw air rockets in this MU but it can be done just to keep him on his toes.

Another thing that no one realizes is that MMH presents a MASSIVE target, especially while jumping. This makes him EXTREMELY susceptible to standing rocket from spaces closer than any other character. His teleports don't get him off the screen fast enough to avoid them in most cases either.

GL bops MMH in footsies unless he's traited up but that goes without saying. If he does have trait up, try to stay back out of standing 3 range and shoot standing rockets. He has little choice but to just duck them.

Also, DO NOT respect his regular jin fireballs unless they're part of a legitimate oki set up. That's a great way to let him do whatever he wants and you will lose.

I wouldn't say REO and I go even, he definitely wins more than me. But, he's also a better player.

I rest my case. Even match up.

 

[G4S KT]

the lift is law.

Im stealing this lmao. so good

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

you gotta get it into your head that his zoning is 75% illusion. In order for him to actually control space in a timely fashion he needs to burn meter on a read (EX pillar or EX jin fireball) the overhead fireball is ok but not going to keep a turbine attempted contained very well.

At full screen you're not as helpless as against others; you can still threaten MMH significantly. You basically have 2 options, look for a spot to trade with standing rocket or make a read on when he's taking a breath from pressing buttons to turbine forward. I know this stuff isn't entirely safe but to quote PL WELCOME TO FIGHTING GAMES. The risk/reward is about even from this position; both characters need to make reads that aren't safe. The only difference is if you try to be passive he can chip you to death. Also, don't try to move after a full screen fireball, pillar is a frame trap.

Air rockets aren't entirely out of the question. If you jump and he pre-emptively does sektor teleport a j1 will often trade or beat him clean, keeping him honest. I wouldn't go around trying to throw air rockets in this MU but it can be done just to keep him on his toes.

Another thing that no one realizes is that MMH presents a MASSIVE target, especially while jumping. This makes him EXTREMELY susceptible to standing rocket from spaces closer than any other character. His teleports don't get him off the screen fast enough to avoid them in most cases either.

GL bops MMH in footsies unless he's traited up but that goes without saying. If he does have trait up, try to stay back out of standing 3 range and shoot standing rockets. He has little choice but to just duck them.

Also, DO NOT respect his regular jin fireballs unless they're part of a legitimate oki set up. That's a great way to let him do whatever he wants and you will lose.

I wouldn't say REO and I go even, he definitely wins more than me. But, he's also a better player.

I rest my case. Even match up.

I was going to type up something very similar to this, but I come home, and its already here. I second this whole post and I am glad to hear that I am on the right track. His zoning is really kind of gimmicky, most of the time he can't lock you down without meter like you said. I will think of anything I can add tonight.

 

[Fred Marvel]

I think slight favor MMH, but my experience isn't as extensive as KT's (as well as most of you guys). From what I saw, it's not just the zoning. MMH in Dhalsim mode outfootsies GL pretty hard, since his 6f d1 gets extended as well. Also, MMH has solid mobility on top of this.

i agree with this 100%

IMO it's not always about how well you keep GL out, it's moreso that he gets forced to approach that is the problem with characters who are able to play better from further out than he does. MMH does this well, and for moments, will play GL better in footsies. And it's why I feel his tougher matchups get so underplayed. Yeah, from where lift is law, he's a monster of a character and pretty much controls the screen well, and that's why his tough matchups aren't any worse. But be real for a second, he's not always going to have that position to be in that type of control in matchups that make him approach that position on their accord.

this is why i dont feel like GL is one of the best characters in the game (he's really good but not top 8, right outside of top 10). yes from his optimal range he dominates but the problem is he has no decent way to get to that range and other characters are fine playing the fullscreen game and GL is forced to try to get in with no good tools to use for it, same problem when you get a rushdown char in your face he has no way to escape and if he ever gets in a corner he's really screwed. the Mus that can exploit his weaknesses are alot worse than people think if played right by the other chars. and adding MMH to the list makes 9 bad MUs i just dont see how a character who loses to a 3rd of the cast can be "top tier" or one of the best when some dont struggle as hard against anyone.

 

[afrozilla86]

How many g.l down players are on this site? are we really debating that a person who had enough time to develop his mmh and knows the g.l matchup wouldn't make it feel like it is in his favor when he plays a g.l with little to no mmh experience? Just like any zoner, start off learning the properties of his zoning if that is giving you trouble. His trait is an admittably troublesome problem, and could lead to this being longterm unfavorable. But this is getting sadder everyday if I listened to the site I would have to switch characters on superman blackadam sinestro raven bat girl scorpion death stroke doomsday cyborg Harley batman zatanna mmh zod and aqua man. If that is the case then why would I even play g.l lol. Analyze adapt then post m.u numbers please, preferably after more than theory battles.

 

[Fred Marvel]

How many g.l down players are on this sight? are we really debating that a person who had enough time to develop his mmh and knows the g.l matchup wouldn't make it feel like it is in his favor when he plays a g.l with little to no mmh experience? Just like any zoner, start off learning the properties of his zoning if that is giving you trouble. His trait is an admittably troublesome problem, and could lead to this being longterm unfavorable. But this is getting sadder everyday if I listened to the sight I would have to switch characters on superman blackadam sinestro raven bat girl scorpion death stroke doomsday cyborg Harley batman zatanna mmh zod and aqua man. If that is the case then why would I even play g.l lol. Analyze adapt then post m.u numbers please, preferably after more than theory battles.

lol what? idk where youre getting adam, doomsday, harley, and aquaman (scorpion either but maybe that was pre nerf and idk anything about zatanna) but the rest are unfavorable MUs and you wouldnt have to switch it would just mean youd be playing a character who has alot of difficult matches there are people who play shazam and ares but i guess you only play high tier characters? the sad part is you dont even consider what i said you just label it downplaying and say its sad, these MUs have been played and analyzed and as they stand now they arent in GLs favor (MMH is still up for debate)

 

[187x]

It's site not sight. I'm making a MU chart soon, It will the most accurate out of any. 6-4 MMH will be on the list. Because it is a 6-4. 4-6 are always winnable remember that.

 

[afrozilla86]

I appreciate the site/sight notice because typing on the phone on tym sucks at times. But at the end of the day I do not retract what I said about the mmh matchup, in that I don't feel that we have taken enough time in trying to learn the character first. And if you have been on the "site" long enough, you would know that people on the g.l forum have been claiming bad matchups for pretty much half the cast because of something like the normal herp durp didn't work in a random ranked match.

 

[187x]

I appreciate the site/sight notice because typing on the phone on tym sucks at times. But at the end of the day I do not retract what I said about the mmh matchup, in that I don't feel that we have taken enough time in trying to learn the character first. And if you have been on the "site" long enough, you would know that people on the g.l forum have been claiming bad matchups for pretty much half the cast because the normal herp durp didn't work in a random ranked match.

I know MMH pretty well I actually use him, I know all his dirty shit that he can do. Didn't you see what i wrote about MMH on how to deal with him? On how to deal with tele and how you can punish it on reaction etc and what you need to know about his b13. I respect peoples opinions but that's 4-6 for GL. Same goes for Raven.