Player Skill (Very Serious Discussion)

[THTB]

I don't think it's impressive when players win with their super character. There's probably a lot of players out there who are better than the "top" players but no one will know cuz their character holds them back.

I think if a player is only looking for props they should main a shit character and try to do good

Q doesn't hold Kuroda back in 3S.

Honda doesn't hold Kusumondo back in ST.

The list goes on and on and on. And this shit is coming from a goddamn SONYA player...which doesn't make much sense. This argument mostly sucks because there are enough instances where it's proven 100% wrong.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

I cannot believe that there are people who argue that MU's don't take account and it is all player skill.... if this was the case MU charts would be pointless, tiers would be LOL, and everybody would play who they enjoy... The fact that a player CAN be held back by their character cannot be denied....TOM FUCKING BRADY, GGA_DIZZY, XxSmokexX, 16Bit, all great players, all being held back by their respective characters...

Difference between the players you named and you yourself is they dont bitch and moan and use excuses.

except one of them

also read my above post to death

 

[Fractured_Shadow]

Character tools definitely matter but it takes great players to utilize them

Now this I can agree with...

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Now this I can agree with...

Thats all Im saying

Seriously in your head think about all those Sonya, Kenshi, Kabal, Cyrax, Lao, etc etc who just NEVER "COULD" and compare them to the names Who "could" and "DID"

I am a product of Kenshi but Honestly Kenshi is also a product of me
Death ^^^

 

[Eddy Wang]

Character tools definitely matter but it takes great players to utilize them

I feel enlightened pig thanks, this answer all the questions of this topic ^^

 

[Big Pampering]

Good luck to those players who think they can do well automatically with kung lao or kenshi with jokes like tele 3 or bf2. I dont know about kenshi, but I am pretty sure a lot of top players have tried kung lao out after PL won evo and didnt feel like they could have the same succes and dropped him. There arent many top kenshi and kung lao players even now.

it is not a given for you to be able to win with a top 5 character, there are just multiple reasons for one guy to have succes with kenshi or lao and 10 other people not being able to do shit with them.

 

[THTB]

There are a lot more Sonya and Cyrax players than there are Kenshi and Kung Lao players. Hell, I think even Kitana still has more players.

 

[Fractured_Shadow]

Difference between the players you named and you yourself is they dont bitch and moan and use excuses.

Not sure how to take this one... I'm not making any excusses becasue I don't play offline... I'm just stating that tiers matters, players tools matter, I also have no idea why you keep attacking me...

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Good luck to those players who think they can do well automatically with kung lao or kenshi with jokes like tele 3 or bf2. I dont know about kenshi, but I am pretty sure a lot of top players have tried kung lao out after PL won evo and didnt feel like they could have the same succes and dropped him. There arent many top kenshi and kung lao players even now.

it is not a given for you to be able to win with a top 5 character, there are just multiple reasons for one guy to have succes with kenshi or lao and 10 other people not being able to do shit with them.

Maxter is a top 3 player imo

Now he destroyed gross w kenshi against his smoke but lost a 2-8 mu to revolver's kit

If i tried Cyrax at a major i might destroy certain MUs but get my ass routed in others.

Simply just picking a character doesnt guarentee success and people's lack of success compared to others threatens and makes them question their own skill so they run to this porous logic.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

There are a lot more Sonya and Cyrax players than there are Kenshi and Kung Lao players. Hell, I think even Kitana still has more players.

Kit has about 11 players who have made top 8

16 bit
khaotik
konqrr
revolver
mr. mileena
trepound
cd
wrath
etc

 

[Badboy Takuma]

Character tools definitely matter but it takes great players to utilize them

and if two great players with near same skills face each other and one of them is using a top tier and the other one a mid tier?

smh

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Not sure how to take this one... I'm not making any excusses becasue I don't play offline... I'm just stating that tiers matters, players tools matter, I also have no idea why you keep attacking me...

My other posts best describes this

Sorry for attacking but this porous mentality needs to end

Posts that sum up my thoughts:
Thats all Im saying

Seriously in your head think about all those Sonya, Kenshi, Kabal, Cyrax, Lao, etc etc who just NEVER "COULD" and compare them to the names Who "could" and "DID"

I am a product of Kenshi but Honestly Kenshi is also a product of me


---------------------------------
Maxter is a top 3 player imo

Now he destroyed gross w kenshi against his smoke but lost a 2-8 mu to revolver's kit

If i tried Cyrax at a major i might destroy certain MUs but get my ass routed in others.

Simply just picking a character doesnt guarentee success and people's lack of success compared to others threatens and makes them question their own skill so they run to this porous logic.


--------------------------------
characters do matter I KNOW THIS but what you guys are failing to understand and fathom is it takes a great player to truly utilize their cheapness.

Do i have to name all those who constantly fail w kabal, kenshi, sonya, cyrax and show you the ones who succeed w them?

Think about that for a sec

Character tools definitely matter but it takes great players to utilize them

 

[Fractured_Shadow]

Simply just picking a character doesnt guarentee success and people's lack of success compared to others threatens and makes them question their own skill so they run to this porous logic.

No, but picking a top tier character helps lol.... I'm done with this topic.... the elitist of the community will always say that the character doesn't matter all the while using Kabal, Kenshi, and Kung Lao, Counter-Picking their way to the top, and commenting on tiers and MU's.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

and if two great players with near same skills face each other and one of them is using a top tier and the other one a mid tier?

smh

I said Character tools matter so whats your point? NMP (not my problem) You lost at the character selection screen picking Kano and I picked Lao


Am I suppose to politely start asking my opponent which character he is picking on me and respectively pick a 5-5 MU that meets his demands?

Maybe the NFL teams should start asking other teams who they should draft

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

No, but picking a top tier character helps lol.... I'm done with this topic.... the elitist of the community will always say that the character doesn't matter all the while using Kabal, Kenshi, and Kung Lao, Counter-Picking their way to the top, and commenting on tiers and MU's.

im telling you both matter - You guys are failing too see the complete failures of most when they try to do what we do

 

[Fractured_Shadow]

Oh and if it really didn't matter Curbo would still be playing Cage

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Oh and if it really didn't matter Curbo would still be playing Cage

He did most of the time

LoL

2 things for you buddy

you go pick kenshi on curbo and let me know how that goes for ya

also go to evo and main kenshi and let me know that also works out for you.

I predict now 1-2 or 2-2 and ass loads of salt you spend $500 to have my point proven

 

[xKhaoTik]

I cannot believe that there are people who argue that MU's don't take account and it is all player skill.... if this was the case MU charts would be pointless, tiers would be LOL, and everybody would play who they enjoy... The fact that a player CAN be held back by their character cannot be denied....TOM FUCKING BRADY, GGA_DIZZY, XxSmokexX, 16Bit, all great players, all being held back by their respective characters...

omg you make me cringe lol.

its always the person behind the characters success, not just the character.

just because REO uses Kabal, doesn't mean he is winning just because of Kabal. Same goes for Pig. He's using the second best character in the game, yet he's the only Kenshi making top 8 at majors.

and your thesis is bullshit. Tom has placed top 8 many times with sub zero, Dizzy has won a tourney with cage and has a number of top 8s, xSmoKex has won a tourney with smoke and has a number of top 8s, 16bit won SCR last year and has a ridiculous amount of top 8s with Kitana, so how are they being held back?

SonicFox has won majors and placed high at majors with a character who isnt even top 10. I guess his character is holding him back too huh?

Winter Brawl is another example. CDjr used Lao, who is arguably a top 3 character and Maxter used Kenshi and Cyrax, both top 5 characters. Neither made it to top 8. BlackBryan used Kano, who is the WORST CHARACTER IN THE GAME, yet he placed top 16. BLACKBRYAN PLACED THE SAME POSITION AS MAXTER AND CDJR. (13th?)

so yea, its always the person behind the controller and character, not just the character itself.

 

[Fractured_Shadow]

im telling you both matter - You guys are failing too see the complete failures of most when they try to do what we do

Pig look at your posts.... they are all over the place... in one section you attack me becasue I said that while the player TOTALLY matters but the charcter selection matters just as much saying "this porous mentailty has to end" and then saying "it's not my fault you lost at the character selection screen"

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Oh and if it really didn't matter Curbo would still be playing Cage

If I use kenshi vs dizzy or curbo? MU is 9-1 or 8-2

if you guys do its 7-3 their adv

Prove me wrong

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Pig look at your posts.... they are all over the place... in one section you attack me becasue I said that while the player TOTALLY matters but the charcter selection matters just as much saying "this porous mentailty has to end" and then saying "it's not my fault you lost at the character selection screen"

My posts are correct

 

[Fractured_Shadow]

omg you make me cringe lol.

its always the person behind the characters success, not just the character.

just because REO uses Kabal, doesn't mean he is winning just because of Kabal. Same goes for Pig. He's using the second best character in the game, yet he's the only Kenshi making top 8 at majors.

and you thesis is bullshit. Tom has placed top 8 many times with sub zero, Dizzy has won a tourney with cage and has a number of top 8s, xSmoKex has won a tourney with smoke and has a number of top 8s, 16bit won SCR last year and has a ridiculous amount of top 8s with Kitana, so how are they being held back?

SonicFox has won majors and placed high at majors with a character who isnt even top 10. I guess his character is holding him back too huh?

Winter Brawl is another example. CDjr used Lao, who is arguably a top 3 character and Maxter used Kenshi and Cyrax, both top 5 characters. Neither made it to top 8. BlackBryan used Kano, who is the WORST CHARACTER IN THE GAME, yet he placed top 16. BLACKBRYAN PLACED THE SAME POSITION AS MAXTER AND CDJR. (13th?)

so yea, its always the person behind the controller and character, not just the character itself.

OMFG... OK let me spell it out for you guys.... As I have said maybe ten times now, I feel that it is an equal amount of player and character... no matter how great of a Johnny Cage player you are you will NEVER beat a Kabal OF EQUAL SKILL in a set.... EQUAL SKILL PEOPLE.... this is what you are failing to see.... if you are a great Cage then of course you will beat up on a scrubby Kenshi. So by your logic there should be tier lists by player not character lol...

 

[Fractured_Shadow]

If I use kenshi vs dizzy or curbo? MU is 9-1 or 8-2

if you guys do its 7-3 their adv

Prove me wrong

Of EQUAL skill fool.... that is the whole point of tier list.... jesus fucking christ.....

 

[Fractured_Shadow]

Without the division of skill every tournament would be purly about CPing.... so duh that the player factors in... but to discount your characters limitations is just stupid.... If Pig was at any tournament that Dizzy won or placed high at he would have been eliminated.... end of story

 

[LanceMonsoon]

Without the division of skill every tournament would be purly about CPing.... so duh that the player factors in... but to discount your characters limitations is just stupid.... If Pig was at any tournament that Dizzy won or placed high at he would have been eliminated.... end of story

Ok so after reading your posts it seems like you are an angry Cage main, who hates Kenshi and Kabal. Why not pick up Kenshi, Kabal or Kung Lao then and place high with them? Seeing as you are saying it is a counter picking game. Go Kung Lao against a high level Kenshi like Pig, lol see how that works for you.