Question - Mileena Pick your poison (asking for changes)

[JDE]

The majority of the Mileena community have been contemplating about her normal overhead, f3. They all want f3 changed, but they do not discuss how the changes of f3 would balance out the cast. I as a Mileena player would love to have it, too, but I'm not asking for it as much. The main thing is each time that I see fellow Milly players mention f3, it's this particular thing: "Man, f3 needs to be faster".

When I ask the player "What price are you willing to play," there is no response. Then other people will post it over & over & over again, but do not explain what else should change that would be fair to the rest of the cast.

You CANNOT suggest a change without thinking about how it would affect the rest of the cast. You can't just ask for a buff for one character, but be unfair with the rest of them. You have to think about all of them. There is no "Let me dream!" There is no ifs, ands, or buts. This is how character balance works. So again, I ask, what price are you willing to pay for the change?

Here is what has to happen to get what we want out of f3. No other way around it, fellow Mileena players:

• If f3 gets sped up while keeping its safety, then the damage output of f3's strings must be toned down so that the damage output wouldn't be too much. She currently breaks past 40%.
• If f3 gets sped up while keeping its damage output from f3's strings, then f3 must be unsafe so that other characters can punish it

This is balance, guys. It's how character balance works. These are the prices that we must pay if we're willing to get what we want. You can't just think about yourself & 1 character. You have to think about all of them. So what price are you willing to pay for it to change? Or what other moves & sacrifices are you willing to make?

I personally do not care whether or not if f3 in particular gets changed (because I have an overhead in Ex Roll while other characters have no overhead; Kitana being an example), but if it does, then I'm willing to give up the damage output from strings to keep the safety & fast overhead. HOWEVER, either way, f3 with good damage, good speed, & then being unsafe on block would be good too.

 

[Braindead]

Yeah she doesn't need her f3 to be faster. If you want mixups use EX roll in a string that has a low hit.

Man I swear everyone just wants it easy now.

 

[SneakyTortoise]

Yeah she doesn't need her f3 to be faster. If you want mixups use EX roll in a string that has a low hit.

Man I swear everyone just wants it easy now.

Would you say they want it to be Braindead? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[Braindead]

Would you say they want it to be Braindead? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Looks like all the TYM salt these couple of days got you really drunk.

 

[SoundsLikePAUSE]

Honestly, I think she's fine right now. Especially with the top tiers slowly being "normalized". Also, she's gotten great buffs in both patches now. Let's not get greedy...even Mil can't be perfect.

 

[james1926]

I'm probably the only Mileena player who ignores f3 completely lol. I mean lets face it it's completely useless. And if they want to make it viable (i.e below 20 fames) they are gonna have to make ex roll to hit mid instead of overhead.

 

[MetalFace]

I'd take a fast unsafe overhead. Fits her theme of everything being unsafe anyway. Mileena is so freakin meter dependent. It sucks needing meter to access mixups when it's already important for wakeups and breakers.

 

[TheGabStandard]

@JDE I made a thread a while ago stating a similar thing but mainly asking the people how fast F3 should be. I'm personally fine with it as it is and it wouldn't bother me if it never gets touched. EX Roll is a viable overhead, it just requires good meter management to have constant access to it. Maybe its the fact that almost everyone else has a meterelss 50/50 so its only fair Mileena gets one too and that is why it is a popular subject. I treat F3 as a bonus, I might throw it out once in a match if the situation allows it. If it hits I get 43% meterless or 50% one bar in the corner, If blocked then F34 to either low or EX Roll or stop at F34 and stay neutral.

I'm probably the only Mileena player who ignores f3 completely lol. I mean lets face it it's completely useless. And if they want to make it viable (i.e below 20 fames) they are gonna have to make ex roll to hit mid instead of overhead.

I wouldn't say its completely useless

 

[JDE]

Honestly, I think she's fine right now. Especially with the top tiers slowly being "normalized". Also, she's gotten great buffs in both patches now. Let's not get greedy...even Mil can't be perfect.

This.

 

[StormGoddess]

i say make F3 faster and scale the resulting damage down. She is a High risk high reward mixup character. Once scouted, noone fears Mileena!!!!!
Ultimately I do think that Mileena is good now tho. at least 2 of her variations are........

 

[JDE]

I'd take a fast unsafe overhead. Fits her theme of everything being unsafe anyway. Mileena is so freakin meter dependent. It sucks needing meter to access mixups when it's already important for wakeups and breakers.

She has 21U4 as an overhead string, too. It's an OS.

 

[Johnny San]

F3 is not the problem. I promise you.

I'm probably the only Mileena player who ignores f3 completely

I've pushed it so far in the back of my mind that I get hit by it in matches because I have to remember what exactly I'm looking at.

 

[JDE]

Also, before this gets out of hand, I'm not trying to start a fuss (I know no one has started yet), just stating what would have to happen if this were to be changed.

 

[1man3letters]

F3 is not the problem. I promise you.

^^^^^

 

[MetalFace]

She has 21U4 as an overhead string, too. It's an OS.

yeah i use it a lot but it's not much of a mixup, although I don't use low sai too much I should probably start doing that.

What's the notation for the OS for 21U4 and 21 xx roll?

 

[JDE]

yeah i use it a lot but it's not much of a mixup, although I don't use low sai too much I should probably start doing that.

What's the notation for the OS for 21U4 and 21 xx roll?

db+block

 

[Flow]

1) Cryomancer treatment: 18f, -13 (or -15) on block, leads to 31% dmg
2) Inferno treatment: 25f, -8 (or -10) on block, leads to 31% dmg
3) Master of Souls treatment: 12f, -20 on block, leads to 34% dmg

 

[Yoaks]

I rather have good pokes. Her f3 is fine.

 

[llxPeeKABooxll]

She does not need F3 to be faster honestly. If the creators wanted her to have a quick, safe overhead they would of given it to her. I think they would be able to distinguish the difference between her overheads and the rest of the cast's. Mileena has good things going for her, but I don't think she's opposed to buffs. Giving her a quick, meterless overhead that leads to 40%+ damage is not the buff she needs imo. Imo she needs faster normals (which she got in this patch), less recovery on sais and possibly safe on block (safe =/= plus), and better movement. Making her a 50/50 carbon copy isn't her character, she's a punisher that's suppose to be fast but punishable.

 

[ZeroEffect]

You CANNOT suggest a change without thinking about how it would affect the rest of the cast. You can't just ask for a buff for one character, but be unfair with the rest of them. You have to think about all of them. There is no "Let me dream!" There is no ifs, ands, or buts. This is how character balance works. So again, I ask, what price are you willing to pay for the change?

Well, I agree with you about having as closely balanced a game as possible. However, I get the feeling that a lot of us are so focused on making our characters seem fair, that we put aside what's effective. I'm sure we've all seen the characters who are claimed to be top tier. Look at the tools and effectiveness of what they have, because that is what everyone else is trying to measure up to in some way. Hell, Tanya has so many options, some people were calling her a Mileena replacement, lol.

As for Mileena's F3, I still think F3 is 100% fine, and doesn't need to be faster. Also, even if F3 was made unsafe, the fear of the string followups would make it safe anyway. (If I was forced to buff anything about F3, it'd be to make the first hit +2 or so on block. Even that is unnecessary, imo.) If she absolutely needs a quick overhead, Stand 3 is my preference. Reason being, it's a 7% damage move that doesn't combo. EX Roll is her fast Overhead combo starter, F3 is her slow one. Stand 3 would just be a quick KND just to have in your back pocket if you want to mixup and stay relatively safe.

I personally do not care whether or not if f3 in particular gets changed (because I have an overhead in Ex Roll while other characters have no overhead; Kitana being an example)

Hmm... I dunno if "Kitana has no overhead, so just be happy" is the right way to look at it. I mean, have you ever been going through a hard time, and had someone tell you to get over it, "because there are people worse off than you"? If anything, it just means Kitana needs help moreso than Mileena has it too good. Are any of the current top tiers are lacking in overheads? If not, don't you think people should base their ideas on keeping up with the best instead of keeping closer to the worst? Just my thoughts.

 

[llxPeeKABooxll]

Reason being, it's a 7% damage move that doesn't combo.

But standing 3 is comboable. Unless you mean the second hit(HDKD hit) is what should hit overhead.

 

[ZeroEffect]

But standing 3 is comboable. Unless you mean the second hit(HDKD hit) is what should hit overhead.

yeah 2nd hit, or make the 1st hit not cancellable

 

[llxPeeKABooxll]

yeah 2nd hit, or make the 1st hit not cancellable

Seems like a fair trade off. It loses it cancellability in exchange for being a fairly quick overhead and armor breaking move that's punishable on block.

 

[Tenryuga]

Hmm... I dunno if "Kitana has no overhead, so just be happy" is the right way to look at it. I mean, have you ever been going through a hard time, and had someone tell you to get over it, "because there are people worse off than you"? If anything, it just means Kitana needs help moreso than Mileena has it too good. Are any of the current top tiers are lacking in overheads? If not, don't you think people should base their ideas on keeping up with the best instead of keeping closer to the worst? Just my thoughts.

No because not every character is intended to be a 50/50 mixup machine. High/low mixup and 50/50s are not the only ways to score damage in a fighting game and open somebody up; They are just the easiest way to do so which is why you will hear alot of people whine and complain about how their character has no overhead or no low starter. For whatever reason they seem to lack the ability to play neutral or score damage in footsie / pressure on block situations.

You will rarely ever hear somebody around here say "Man...if only I had some more frame advantage on block so I could have real pressure..." or "Man if only my frame traps were better...." or "Man if my pokes / specials had these tweaks I could get a neutral / offense going..." It's usually the cop out easy option of "I need an overhead / low starter to complement my existing overhead / low starter." without regard for their characters play design or strengths which indicates to me that they have a not only a limited understanding of what their characters are intended to be but of fighting games in general since they seem to think if a character doesn't have a 50/50 or good high/low mixup they are not good.

I am not saying that Mileena needs or does not need a better overhead. Just agreeing with the TC and saying that players need to think about their characters strengths vs the rest of the cast and how to augment those strengths if said character struggles against the cast.

 

[ZeroEffect]

You will rarely ever hear somebody around here say "Man...if only I had some more frame advantage on block so I could have real pressure..." or "Man if only my frame traps were better...." or "Man if my pokes / specials had these tweaks I could get a neutral / offense going..." It's usually the cop out easy option of "I need an overhead / low starter to complement my existing overhead / low starter." without regard for their characters play design or strengths which indicates to me that they have a not only a limited understanding of what their characters are intended to be but of fighting games in general since they seem to think if a character doesn't have a 50/50 or good high/low mixup they are not good.

I am not saying that Mileena needs or does not need a better overhead. Just agreeing with the TC and saying that players need to think about their characters strengths vs the rest of the cast and how to augment those strengths if said character struggles against the cast.

This is the reason why I feel her F3 is ok. You can buff characters in ways to make them good without making them carbon copies of one another, I agree. My point with the Overheads thing was just a "for instance".