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"Perfect Guard" a possible mechanic to implement on future MK games

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
Ok, but now that we cleared that I do know what I am talking about with Tanno you owe me an apology :p
Although reading again yeah, I probably should have explained a bit more, so maybe not...but also even if it seemed I didn't play the game what I said was still right, so idk. In any case the important thing is that I love that movie :p



I'd love to play with you too, but I need to get the money to buy a new console and don't see it happening soon :(

Edit: Sorry for derailing the thread :)
 

Shade667

#StrongisthenewCute
I don't see what the issue is. Not every game needs to have it but MK does and I think it's a fun mechanic in the current state of the game.
I dont think losing because I guessed right is a fun mechanic.
There's a lot of characters with gaps vs characters with no gaps and the characters with gaps will be obliterated. Take pyro tanya for example, all her strings have gaps she'd get beaten even harder if we had this "just gaurd" system.
Remember, OP did state this was not a suggestion for this game, but a future game. And it wouldnt be a mechanic the devs just threw in at the end, I believe some aspects of the game would be built around it.

So, like the OP Suggested If this were in a "future MK title" Id be all for it.
 

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
I dont think losing because I guessed right is a fun mechanic.
That's just a really negative way to frame the mechanic. It's about not allowing your self to be put in a situation where you will be chipped out and forcing you to evade rather then block. And it rewards you knowing what will chip enough when you need it to.
 
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Reactions: GAV

RVB

twitch.tv/rvblacktail
Not sure NRS has what it takes to integrate a mechanic like the one described by the OP.
Remember that these are the people that forced you to play online with the worst netcode ever for 3 consecutive games while failures like SFxT were using rollback.
 

Zaccel

Noob
MK sort of had this already (in MK3) as an artifact of frame updating. It didn't have meters or whatever, but it let you block lows and stand faster, and more easily punish stuff. Were it put in a future game I'd be all for it, but I'd want to see a unique spin on it rather than having it for its own sake (character-specific block breakers ala V-Reversals wouldn't be so bad).
 

ShadyHeart

Relationship with Sonya ended
The way described would be a VERY bad way of implementing this. Literally less than 1% of people would be capable of doing it with such strict execution requirements and the reward would be very unsatisfying and small. It would be better to implement it in a way where anyone is capable of doing it if they think "hey I need to not take this chip damage or make the opponent less safe so I can punish or escape." This makes it so the skill floor is low low and the skill ceiling is the same. A meter of some sort or just draining regular meter would accomplish this. You DO NOT want to make a game mechanic that has an extremely high skill floor just for the sake of having a high skill floor. It does not make high level play any better and it alienates people wanting to learn the game.
 

Shade667

#StrongisthenewCute
The way described would be a VERY bad way of implementing this. Literally less than 1% of people would be capable of doing it with such strict execution requirements and the reward would be very unsatisfying and small. It would be better to implement it in a way where anyone is capable of doing it if they think "hey I need to not take this chip damage or make the opponent less safe so I can punish or escape." This makes it so the skill floor is low low and the skill ceiling is the same. A meter of some sort or just draining regular meter would accomplish this. You DO NOT want to make a game mechanic that has an extremely high skill floor just for the sake of having a high skill floor. It does not make high level play any better and it alienates people wanting to learn the game.
It actually wouldnt be that hard.
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
What do you guys think if a future MK game introduced a "perfect guard" system?

It would consist on pressing the block button 1 frame away of an impact on your character making it possible to negate: Chip, meter build and come out of blocking 1 frame earlier.

What pros and cons do you think this mechanic?
I
think this would be a great and scary feature at the same time, with that said, many things could be addressed with that implamented including Obnoxious pressure, Plus Frames, Ghoasting pushback moves, in some ways couls handle tricky mixups. i think it would be awesome and great suggestion, then of course with great ideas comes assholes that will complaine about it stopping there plus frames and cheap tactics they will say it hinders there ability to play an honest game with skill and not luck, but we know the truth.

but it should be closer to 3 frames so all can acomplish this, and those who are not ready for the read or block would miss it, i think 1 frame is beyond human capabilities honestly with some of the very wierd moves out there.
 

Barrogh

Meta saltmine
It would consist on pressing the block button 1 frame away of an impact...
That would be the tightest just guard window I know of.

But tbh I like the way it was done in Soul Calibur more. There, you had to press block for no more than 4 frames, and then, upon block release, your character will enter "just guard state" for a couple frames more. You must not be in a state of blockstun for it to work.

This ensures that you can't just guard without intention of doing so, and that you cannot just sit there and block until you confirm last move in a blockstring for JG punish.

That said, I agree with the following:

I say no. Either this becomes something that people just get lucky with and it adds to the chaos of the match instead of adding to the strategy, or it becomes consistently used and it adds a pointless execution barrier to the game.
While the former issue can be mostly solved by implementation described above, the latter is my main concern. Although since such implementation requires hard read for most things that become punishable (fast, not advantageous strings) and just make other moves potentially less oppressive (slow and reactable, but plus)... I think you can build the game around it, after all. You just need to switch off your inner NRS while designing such a game.

Honestly now, if you ask me, I think that MK should step back from frame game for a bit and focus on hitbox/hurtbox (aka spacing) games more.

And speaking of raw execution (which is somewhat off-topic, but w/e), NRS already make it harder every release, but harder in a pretty meaningless way, as in: mostly not because your character has so many more options and can do more in the same timeframe ("mostly" being a keyword though), but because MK9's 344 becomes IGAU's b2u2d3 becomes MKX' f3~bf[4],f,f+blk,[!4]. Like, what the fuck is the purpose of this?
This is not what makes a competitive game, it's all about something that lies behind it. Something that doesn't require esoteric execution of moves, and there are prominent examples of that these days.
 
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Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
I like that half of the members who have contributed to this thread agreed on and the other half disagrees bringing both solid values to the discussion on why or why they dis/agrees with the suggestion.


Definitely relying only on armor is becoming a bit dull, the idea was never killing the pressure game, if you guys think a 3 frame window on it its much better at the cost of something it could be a nice idea as long as nrs plays around with it first testing draw backs for the mechanic as well.

for example if we had these rules
Timed guard.
1 frame window of timed blocking = nullifies opponent's chip and meter building, comes off 1 frame earlier of block stuns
3 frame window of timed blocking = nulifies opponent's chip and meter building, comes off 3 frames earlier, but costs meter for each timed blocking.

if timed blocking costs meter, maybe it should drain the same amount a character would build by you blocking his hit.
 

Barrogh

Meta saltmine
for example if we had these rules
Timed guard.
1 frame window of timed blocking = nullifies opponent's chip and meter building, comes off 1 frame earlier of block stuns
3 frame window of timed blocking = nulifies opponent's chip and meter building, comes off 3 frames earlier, but costs meter for each timed blocking.
It's 2 frames difference between spending meter or not spending it. IMO there are better ways to go about input.

Actually, GG uses quite similar system with Just blocks (timed ones) and FD (flawless defence; blocks that cost meter). The former reduces blockstun by about 4 frames. The latter negates chip damage, increases pushback and prevents RISK meter from raising (normal blocking makes it rise, and it's basically a Bad Thing™).

Or you can say "fuck it" to hard frame data and do it the way Abyss Odyssey did (disclamer: not a fan of the idea here). There, your frame advantage over your opponent when you block something gets gradually worse as you hold block button. So pressing block when you're just about to be hit makes a lot of stuff punishable, but after about 20 frames (or so) of continuous blocking a lot of stuff becomes safe against you. Middle ground is inbetween, although I don't know how gradual it is.

But keep in mind that AO isn't really a competitive fighting game as we know them, so it gets away with a lot of shit. That said, it sounds somewhat similar to your suggestion above.

Also, lol @ 1 frame parry window. Plinked 2f links are considered to be realm of few, and it's in combos, where opponent don't get to mess with your timing in any way.
 

Badboy Takuma

Midway Player
tbf, MKX came in 2015 and yet no flawless block so
Eddy Wang > Takuma
:DOGE
i am sorry again but since mk11 is the real successor of mk9 i'm still the owner of this prophecy!
Takuma > Eddy Wang
;D

instant block, a slightly more advanced version of normal blocking; you must start blocking right before the opponent's attack touches you. benefit is you dont eat chip damage.