patch changes

[Warborn]

Can you give me the combo for the 2,1 and the f+21? or anyone in general.

Magnet gave me this one earlier in the thread. 2,1~Lift,dash,b2~fan,dash,ground fan,dash,2~fan,dash,2~cutter

As far online goes I use f+2,1, NJP,dash,3~groundfan,dash,2~fanlift,dashx2,b+2~iAF,dash ground fan,dash,2~cutter

The reason why I say online is because it is possible to switch 3~groundfan and 2~fanlift with 4s for a little more damage offline. The only reason why I do it this way is for consistency online. I have seen the b+2~iAF to whiff if the fan lift is close to a corner. In that case just play it safe with an jump kick~iAF

 

[Verstande]

Magnet gave me this one earlier in the thread. 2,1~Lift,dash,b2~fan,dash,ground fan,dash,2~fan,dash,2~cutter

On this one I do 2,1~ NJP b3 fan and the same thing, I get no where near 40%......only like 31%

 

[Verstande]

Just tested this PRE-PATCH, the 2,1, max damage is as follows:

2,1~air lift, NJP, b2, iAF, ground fan, 2+fan, 2+ cutter 38%

There's no way you're going to get 40% post-patch with all the nerfs on the fans.

 

[Earthbound360]

Ok so I was experimenting with meter combos (as no one answered my question D: ) and found that the former strongest 1 bar combo is now on equals (in fact weak in some cases) than another 1 bar combo (which I personally find much easier to excecute).

Old: F21, NJP, (Dash) 4 Fan, (Dash) 4 Fan, 2 EX Lift, (Dash dash) B2 Air Fan, (Dash) Fan, (Dash) 4 Cutter only adds ONE percent damage to the original combo. Lame.
Easier combo IMO: F21, NJP, (Dash) 4 Fan, (Dash) 4 Lift, (Dash dash) B2 Air Fan, (dash) Fan, (Dash) 4 EX Fan, (Hold second fan, dash cancel) Fan, (Dash) 2 Cutter.

I absolutely HATED the part where you had to do 4 fans to the EX lift. Second one provides just as much damage.

And another thing. The universal dash thing is hurting Kitana. In a way I can easily notice too. Remember back when we could get full screen combos with an EX fan dash cancel on hit confirm? We'd be able to toss one out at a laggy move on the other side of the screen, hold and dash cancel the second one, then dash in and use F2 before the hitstun was over. With the changes made to the dashing, that range of a possible combo seems to be nearly halved >.<

 

[Verstande]

Is dashing THAT bad? Jesus Christ, that's about all the momentum Kitana is going to get.

 

[Magnet]

Just tested this PRE-PATCH, the 2,1, max damage is as follows:

2,1~air lift, NJP, b2, iAF, ground fan, 2+fan, 2+ cutter 38%

There's no way you're going to get 40% post-patch with all the nerfs on the fans.

the njp in this combo doesnt add any damage-it takes the same amount without it i believe- and post patch this combo still takes 35%-theres no need for kitana to take 40% with EVERY one of her bnbs

 

[Magnet]

And another thing. The universal dash thing is hurting Kitana. In a way I can easily notice too. Remember back when we could get full screen combos with an EX fan dash cancel on hit confirm? We'd be able to toss one out at a laggy move on the other side of the screen, hold and dash cancel the second one, then dash in and use F2 before the hitstun was over. With the changes made to the dashing, that range of a possible combo seems to be nearly halved >.<

one piece of advice: dash block. grow used to it.

after hit confirming the AA fan dash block to approximately 3/4 of a dash. the block will cancel the dash and then release and repeat; but quickly. you need to develop a sort of rhythm for it but it allows you to dash much closer than without dash canceling your blocks; though still not as far as pre-patch.

i still dont understand why the hell they changed dashes though. like it's gonna change some huge part of the tourney game or something -.-

 

[RunwayMafia]

Wait what? They did what to dashing?

 

[Magnet]

Wait what? They did what to dashing?

in post-patch you can no longer cancel a dash with another dash.in other words; you have to wait until the full animation of the previous dash ends in order to dash again. characters like kitana and sub zero who can hit confirm from full screen were hurt by this since the dashing is much slower and awkward. dash blocking towards an opponent after hit confirming an AA fan should be more efficient than just dashing like a crippled crab post-patch.

 

[bitchesandsake]

And another thing. The universal dash thing is hurting Kitana. In a way I can easily notice too. Remember back when we could get full screen combos with an EX fan dash cancel on hit confirm? We'd be able to toss one out at a laggy move on the other side of the screen, hold and dash cancel the second one, then dash in and use F2 before the hitstun was over. With the changes made to the dashing, that range of a possible combo seems to be nearly halved >.<

i still dont understand why the hell they changed dashes though. like it's gonna change some huge part of the tourney game or something -.-

Seriously... this is what I was on about in my previous posts. The changes in the dash seem a little pointless, yet they have affected my game in an adverse way. It sucks.

 

[rev0lver]

Yeah, the only thing I've noticed is with longer range anti air combos. I used to be able to dash up in time to throw out a f2~cutter ending. Double dashing for fan lift isn't much of a problem, though.

 

[MagicMan357]

dash block people

 

[xkheretic]

Just tested this PRE-PATCH, the 2,1, max damage is as follows:

2,1~air lift, NJP, b2, iAF, ground fan, 2+fan, 2+ cutter 38%

There's no way you're going to get 40% post-patch with all the nerfs on the fans.

That's not max damage.

You can do (post patch).

2,1~Air Lift, Full dash forward, Ground Fan, B2~Air-Fan, Dash Forward ~ Block Cancel, Dash Forward 4~Fan, Dash Forward 4~Cutter for 39%.

So if a JPS is used - you'll get over 40%.

 

[DrDogg]

MK9 is a product of everything that came before it. MKDA, nearly everything was safe with BDC. MKD and MKA, offline about 80%+ of the moves were unsafe and punished by full combo and it was littered with free throws. Believe me, this is 1000x better than what has happened in the past. NRS doesn't want MK to be like SF or Tekken, they want it to feel and play like it's roots, which it does and does very well.

Safe and unsafe are relative to when you let go of block. Frame data is SO hard to determine as I'm sure you know.

I see your point though and agree to an extent.

I don't need MK9 to be like Tekken and I don't want it to be like SF. All I want is the ability to win at high levels with a defensive game plan. Showing the number of safe moves was just another example of how offensive this game is. Right now, it's offense or bust, and I don't like that.

the njp in this combo doesnt add any damage-it takes the same amount without it i believe- and post patch this combo still takes 35%-theres no need for kitana to take 40% with EVERY one of her bnbs

Considering how difficult it is for Kitana to open the opponent up, her damage was very important. Any loss of damage is going to affect her more than the other characters of equal or higher tier status.

one piece of advice: dash block. grow used to it.

after hit confirming the AA fan dash block to approximately 3/4 of a dash. the block will cancel the dash and then release and repeat; but quickly. you need to develop a sort of rhythm for it but it allows you to dash much closer than without dash canceling your blocks; though still not as far as pre-patch.

i still dont understand why the hell they changed dashes though. like it's gonna change some huge part of the tourney game or something -.-

The problem with dash blocking in this situation is that it's difficult to dash block into an EX attack (at least for me). I'd almost always just get a standard block or a fan. I had to be very precise with my dash block cancels to get an EX Fan. This may be better post-patch with the negative edge fix, but it was a problem for me pre-patch.

 

[M2Dave]

I don't have much to contribute to Kitana's post-patch combos, but...

I don't need MK9 to be like Tekken and I don't want it to be like SF. All I want is the ability to win at high levels with a defensive game plan. Showing the number of safe moves was just another example of how offensive this game is. Right now, it's offense or bust, and I don't like that.

... I would say that the game is more defensive than what it used to be. You can apply strict turtle and zoning strategies with some characters. Besides, the number of safe moves has nothing to do with how offensive or defensive a fighting game is. Most moves are safe in 2D fighting games, which is a good thing in my opinion. It shifts the gameplay from tedious frame data memorization. I am ranting now. We can talk privately about this if you like. I started my fighting game "career" with Tekken.

 

[DrDogg]

I don't have much to contribute to Kitana's post-patch combos, but...



... I would say that the game is more defensive than what it used to be. You can apply strict turtle and zoning strategies with some characters. Besides, the number of safe moves has nothing to do with how offensive or defensive a fighting game is. Most moves are safe in 2D fighting games, which is a good thing in my opinion. It shifts the gameplay from tedious frame data memorization. I am ranting now. We can talk privately about this if you like. I started my fighting game "career" with Tekken.

I like tedious frame data memorization. ^_^

 

[Konqrr]

The dashing change hurts Kitana currently, yes. But dash blocking still works and is even faster than the old dashing ever was, it is just harder to do.

Try this and you will see:

ff~block~f~block~f

Look at the range you just covered.

Now put it into action:

Full screen aaAir Fan, ff~block~f~block~f~Fan, ff~4~Fan (or 2~Fan or f2~Fan), ff~2~Fan, ff~2~Cutter

Once people learn to dash block in combos, you will forget all about the old way.

 

[Dark Kobra]

I know we cannot revert back to the older system, but Konqrr, you feel that the dash blocking is better? Does this balance the dashing change or is she still at a disadvantage?

 

[DrDogg]

I know we cannot revert back to the older system, but Konqrr, you feel that the dash blocking is better? Does this balance the dashing change or is she still at a disadvantage?

Dash blocking has always been better. I fly across the screen with dash blocking. The only thing I don't like about it is that I find it difficult to buffer an EX Fan (or any EX attack) at the end of a dash block.

 

[Konqrr]

I know we cannot revert back to the older system, but Konqrr, you feel that the dash blocking is better? Does this balance the dashing change or is she still at a disadvantage?

Dash blocking is very useful, but I hate using it for combos.

I made an error in my post above yours about that fullscreen combo... Do this instead:

Fullscreen aaAir Fan, ff~block~f~Fan, ff~4~Fan (or 2~Fan or f2~Fan), *ff~f2~Cutter (32%)

* Here, you can try for another 2~Fan then end it or you can tack on a 2~EX Fan to Fan to 2~Cutter for 38%.

 

[Verstande]

Currently Kitana's meterless F,21 BnB is 45% max damage right?

 

[truendymion]

No offense, but I think you should learn more about Tekken and MK before you say things like this.

There's more risk/reward in Tekken than there is in MK. Also, Bob is not all that safe, and he's not top 2 in the game. The reason Tekken was boring at Evo is because most people find Tekken to be boring to watch. It's my main fighting game and I still think it's boring to watch. Has nothing to do with the risk/reward ratio in the game.

In MK, almost EVERYTHING is safe. It's ridiculous. Look at Kitana...

f+2,1 - Safe launcher.
2,1 - Safe, hit confirmable combo starter.
f+4,1 - Safe overhead launcher.
Fake Out Kick - Safe low.
Square Wave - Safe on block.
Cutter - Advantage on block.

Almost every character in MK9 has a safe launcher, overhead or combo starter. Even most specials are either hard to punish or safe with an EX variant. I would go as far as to say that 80% of the attacks in the game are either safe or advantage on block. In Tekken, I'd say maybe 40% of the attacks are safe.

I say that MK is risky because of the throw system and the lack of defense. If I'm holding block, I'm essentially taking a risk. There's simply no good way to play defense effectively.



I didn't mean SF was risky, I meant it's a guessing game. You can FADC to make things safe, but when I'm pressuring Rufus on wake-up, I still have to guess if he's going to Messiah or not.



I'm the one doing a vast majority of the frame data for this site. I was at Evo and got top 64 (playing the game once a week at most), but was never on stream. I did commentary though.

I'm also on the Digital Dojo stream every other Wednesday, but the archive is currently hidden because the admins don't want strats out leading up to DEV.

You are right about that. I guess when I said 'playing it safe' I meant to say turtle. I think the goal was to encourage players to take initiative and be aggressive and discourage turtling.

And the reason Tekken 6 was boring to watch at EVO is because everyone picks Bob or Law and all you see is pokes and throw techs.

 

[DrDogg]

You are right about that. I guess when I said 'playing it safe' I meant to say turtle. I think the goal was to encourage players to take initiative and be aggressive and discourage turtling.

And the reason Tekken 6 was boring to watch at EVO is because everyone picks Bob or Law and all you see is pokes and throw techs.

Most people consider Tekken boring to watch no matter which characters are playing (aside from maybe Yoshi).

The general style of Tekken is to use pokes to open up the opponent for a juggle, and you'll see 90% throw techs in high level play.

 

[aj1701]

Finally played the patch today. The Kitana combos I used went from 37% -> 36, and 31 -> 29. So not too bad for me. I was expecting major problems from dashing, but I guess I never got in the habit of canceling a dash with another dash, so I didn't have to adjust to anything.

 

[Verstande]

aj I played you today on psn, great games.

Well for the most part her max damage meterless f21 in now near impossible because of the dashes, I've decided to switch my secondary (mileena) to my main, kitana will be my alternate choice now. Her whole game feels extremely weird, will take a few days to get used to it. For some odd reason, the new dash prohibits me from giving my A rushing game.