What's new

patch changes

Well of course 21 is going to be a weaker combo overall than F21. It'd be stupid if it wasnt. The regular trade is power for speed in just about everything. If it was stronger or as strong as F21, no one would use F21 unless they needed that step up in range (or perhaps an unduckable combo starter). Either way, nothing's changed about her combo starters. 21 is still the quicker but weaker one, F21 is still the stronger but slower one.

This damage nerf makes me a sad panda, just saying. I like KItana for her crazy damage, or moreover, her above average damage now :\

I have a question though. A 1 bar bnb. We need a new one. Why? Because the only one does less damage than a meterless bnb now >_>
F21, NJP, 4 fan, 2 fan, 2 EX lift, (dash dash) B2 air fan, fan, 4 cutter. It's weaker than if you replaced the 2 fan with a 4 lift.
So what's our bnb option now? I didn't have time to experiment with a new one.

Oh and as an answer to an earlier post in this thread, after a lift, I believe NJP will make a combo stronger. Lift, (dash dash) NJP, B2 air fan, fan, 4 cutter is what I use.
 
I don't like taking any risks or guessing. It's why I don't play SF at a competitive level. I tend to play very safe, maintaining frame advantage as much as possible. MK9 does not go well with this style of play.
I'm sorry but a game without risks is very boring. Did you see the Tekken 6 finals at EVO? Boring as hell, just poke poke poke. No one took risks, just picked the best 2 characters and stuck with the safest shit possible. RIP was the exception, he actually put on a bit of a show but he ended up getting lamed out by super safe Bob player.

I think MK9 does it right. Playing it safe doesn't get you too far. If you want to really do some damage you've got to take some risks LIKE A MAN!

And you think SF is a risky game at competitive level? LOL a game where you can make any move safe by FADC, where you can hitconfirm your biggest damage combos off of jabs without any commitment, where backdashes have invincibility frames. Cmon that game has plenty of safe shit.
 

aj1701

Noob
Well said, I don't know other fighting games to compare, so that's good knowledge.

Dogg likes a different style of game, its cool. I respect him for calmly and clearly explaining his position.
 

Dark Kobra

Hitbox™ Enthusiast
I guess some people must have put complaints in stating that Kitana was still over powered......... After those ex fans were toned down, I could break 60% maybe 61% with 3 bars and now.... Feck knows as I havent got the patch yet.... but will be interesting to see how much of a nerf this is going to be. However having said that... even if it is a couple of percent.... Kit can still get the extra in chip damage..... so really she should be able to still hold her own in theory.
 

16 Bit

Mash d+1~Cat Claws
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
Daggerfall AKA Dizzy tested this more and JIP f+2,1 does indeed only jail off a deep JIP. If it's early he can EX nut punch or Xray through it. Then he tested it on PS3 and it turns out that was always the case.
 

rev0lver

Come On Die Young
Daggerfall AKA Dizzy tested this more and JIP f+2,1 does indeed only jail off a deep JIP. If it's early he can EX nut punch or Xray through it. Then he tested it on PS3 and it turns out that was always the case.
LOL really? Way for tech to be found by accident.
 

16 Bit

Mash d+1~Cat Claws
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
If it's not a deep jp they can let go of block and duck f+4.
 

aj1701

Noob
So its looking like the only significant change is the slight ground fan damage nerf and proper scaling for air fan?
 

DrDogg

Noob
I'm sorry but a game without risks is very boring. Did you see the Tekken 6 finals at EVO? Boring as hell, just poke poke poke. No one took risks, just picked the best 2 characters and stuck with the safest shit possible. RIP was the exception, he actually put on a bit of a show but he ended up getting lamed out by super safe Bob player.

I think MK9 does it right. Playing it safe doesn't get you too far. If you want to really do some damage you've got to take some risks LIKE A MAN!
No offense, but I think you should learn more about Tekken and MK before you say things like this.

There's more risk/reward in Tekken than there is in MK. Also, Bob is not all that safe, and he's not top 2 in the game. The reason Tekken was boring at Evo is because most people find Tekken to be boring to watch. It's my main fighting game and I still think it's boring to watch. Has nothing to do with the risk/reward ratio in the game.

In MK, almost EVERYTHING is safe. It's ridiculous. Look at Kitana...

f+2,1 - Safe launcher.
2,1 - Safe, hit confirmable combo starter.
f+4,1 - Safe overhead launcher.
Fake Out Kick - Safe low.
Square Wave - Safe on block.
Cutter - Advantage on block.

Almost every character in MK9 has a safe launcher, overhead or combo starter. Even most specials are either hard to punish or safe with an EX variant. I would go as far as to say that 80% of the attacks in the game are either safe or advantage on block. In Tekken, I'd say maybe 40% of the attacks are safe.

I say that MK is risky because of the throw system and the lack of defense. If I'm holding block, I'm essentially taking a risk. There's simply no good way to play defense effectively.

And you think SF is a risky game at competitive level? LOL a game where you can make any move safe by FADC, where you can hitconfirm your biggest damage combos off of jabs without any commitment, where backdashes have invincibility frames. Cmon that game has plenty of safe shit.
I didn't mean SF was risky, I meant it's a guessing game. You can FADC to make things safe, but when I'm pressuring Rufus on wake-up, I still have to guess if he's going to Messiah or not.

Whos Dr. Dogg? I've never seen at tournys or on streams?
I'm the one doing a vast majority of the frame data for this site. I was at Evo and got top 64 (playing the game once a week at most), but was never on stream. I did commentary though.

I'm also on the Digital Dojo stream every other Wednesday, but the archive is currently hidden because the admins don't want strats out leading up to DEV.
 

Warborn

Freebies for all
f+4,1 is not safe. It maybe safe if you let it go through on block, but there's a chance in right after Kitana does her kick in the string to try and get something in.
 

aj1701

Noob
f+4,1 is not safe. It maybe safe if you let it go through on block, but there's a chance in right after Kitana does her kick in the string to try and get something in.
A chance? I'm not the best player so maybe i'm doing something wrong, but I almost never use F4,1 because everyone can uppercut after the kick, and you see it coming a mile away.
 

16 Bit

Mash d+1~Cat Claws
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
That's if you duck it. If you block it standing you can't interrupt.
 
even if f21 does not jail who cares? think about it. . . by the time your opponent is out of the stun a jip put them in f2 is already at the last frames before the first active frame so even if they can duck the can not do any thing like at d1 or jump out if they stop holding block they will get hit by f2 so who cares if it does not jail.

after all i really do not see why a kitana player will do a jip and go for f21 after it when 21 is so much better
 

Konqrr

MK11 Kabal = MK9 Kitana
LOL! I totally forgot about Fan Lift. However, what's the highest damage you can get off of 2,1~Fan Lift? I don't think it's as high as 2,1~EX Fan or f+2,1. So she's still losing damage.
It's close to 40% with good execution, but the 35 Magnet posted is good too. That is still really good damage for a punisher.

If you need meter, you could opt for 21~Cutter then dash in (not jump as f41 no longer jails them standing afaik) and do something like f41~cutter (whiff the f4 to force them to stand) ... this option is shit now because they can duck block... fuck.
 

DrDogg

Noob
even if f21 does not jail who cares? think about it. . . by the time your opponent is out of the stun a jip put them in f2 is already at the last frames before the first active frame so even if they can duck the can not do any thing like at d1 or jump out if they stop holding block they will get hit by f2 so who cares if it does not jail.

after all i really do not see why a kitana player will do a jip and go for f21 after it when 21 is so much better
If you have no meter, f+2,1 is the better option. The only advantage of 2,1 is the fact that you can hit confirm into a combo, but on block, Kitana loses her momentum because smart opponents will just duck under the Cutter.

It's close to 40% with good execution, but the 35 Magnet posted is good too. That is still really good damage for a punisher.

If you need meter, you could opt for 21~Cutter then dash in (not jump as f41 no longer jails them standing afaik) and do something like f41~cutter (whiff the f4 to force them to stand) ... this option is shit now because they can duck block... fuck.
This is disturbing to hear... >_>
 
Great, Kitana is useless now. are you fucking shitting me, 40% is max, and that's with KONQRR'S kitana, my max right now is 42% without the patch, don't even want to imagine what it would be post-patch.
 
Is anyone else having issues with cancelling 2 into fan lift? I have been able to do the f21 njp bnb with the 2~lift 100% of the time for a few months now, but since I downloaded the patch, I can only seem to get the lift to come out some of the time... I took a few days off before the patch but I don't think I'm going crazy... I catch them high as shit with the 2, and the lift just doesnt come out half the time.
 

rev0lver

Come On Die Young
Great, Kitana is useless now. are you fucking shitting me, 40% is max, and that's with KONQRR'S kitana, my max right now is 42% without the patch, don't even want to imagine what it would be post-patch.
40% is not max... that's only off 21~fan lift. She still deals good damage when an f21 is in, just not as much as before.

bitchesandsake, I haven't had any problems connecting 2~lift. Maybe your technique was using negative edge? because the negative edge was slightly changed.
 
bitchesandsake, I haven't had any problems connecting 2~lift. Maybe your technique was using negative edge? because the negative edge was slightly changed.
It must have been.. I guess I should dash after njp instead or something.. my input is usually ff2bb2. Since you can't cancel dashes into dashes, is dash cancelling affected or something? It just seems strange.
 

Konqrr

MK11 Kabal = MK9 Kitana
Great, Kitana is useless now. are you fucking shitting me, 40% is max, and that's with KONQRR'S kitana, my max right now is 42% without the patch, don't even want to imagine what it would be post-patch.
Close to 40% with no meter off of 21~Fan Lift... She still gets 45% at least from a f21 starter. Don't worry, the nerf isn't that bad ^_^

Almost every character in MK9 has a safe launcher, overhead or combo starter. Even most specials are either hard to punish or safe with an EX variant. I would go as far as to say that 80% of the attacks in the game are either safe or advantage on block. In Tekken, I'd say maybe 40% of the attacks are safe.
MK9 is a product of everything that came before it. MKDA, nearly everything was safe with BDC. MKD and MKA, offline about 80%+ of the moves were unsafe and punished by full combo and it was littered with free throws. Believe me, this is 1000x better than what has happened in the past. NRS doesn't want MK to be like SF or Tekken, they want it to feel and play like it's roots, which it does and does very well.

Safe and unsafe are relative to when you let go of block. Frame data is SO hard to determine as I'm sure you know.

I see your point though and agree to an extent.
 

rev0lver

Come On Die Young
It must have been.. I guess I should dash after njp instead or something.. my input is usually ff2bb2. Since you can't cancel dashes into dashes, is dash cancelling affected or something? It just seems strange.
My inputs are njp, 4~fan, ff, 2~bb2. You shouldn't be having trouble with it.
 
Close to 40% with no meter off of 21~Fan Lift... She still gets 45% at least from a f21 starter. Don't worry, the nerf isn't that bad ^_^



MK9 is a product of everything that came before it. MKDA, nearly everything was safe with BDC. MKD and MKA, offline about 80%+ of the moves were unsafe and punished by full combo and it was littered with free throws. Believe me, this is 1000x better than what has happened in the past. NRS doesn't want MK to be like SF or Tekken, they want it to feel and play like it's roots, which it does and does very well.

Safe and unsafe are relative to when you let go of block. Frame data is SO hard to determine as I'm sure you know.

I see your point though and agree to an extent.
Can you give me the combo for the 2,1 and the f+21? or anyone in general.