Paragon General Discussion Thread

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

Riktor's pull can punish Grux's pull on reaction. Basically I was waiting under a tower when a Greystone and Grux tried to push a tower down, I put myself within range of Grux's pull and aimed my cursor at him to see if he would try to pull me and the minions, he tried and I instantly hooked him under the tower, ulted and silenced him, Our Twinblast came just in time to finish him off. The Grux probably would have died anyway though.

I am pretty sure you can punish a lot of other ability cast attempts as well from under a tower, for example if you see a Rampage pick up a boulder, he is stuck and rooted in the animation for a short duration and you can pull him right then and there.

Trying to do Riktor's hook in a "quick cast" style as fast as you can on an opponent moving around is simply going to cause it to whiff, people who know what's up will constantly juke side to side, especially if you enter the aim animation. The hook takes time to travel and requires you to aim slightly ahead of the opponents movement.

Btw has anybody tried Lt Belica yet? Her kit looks like she is gonna counter Iggy really well. Gadget and Gideon can build mana regen, but Iggy has to build a bigger mana pool, so Belica's ult is gonna hit Iggy hard.

 

[smokey]

I was hitting grux out of his pull with dekkers orb stun, because her leap doesnt go far enough to escape it and for whatever reason he still pulls you if you are 10 foot in the air above him.

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

These queue dodge penalties are starting to add up, I dodged one queue where a guy was hellbent on picking TB and I was going to be the only melee, I got a 4 minute penalty. I just got a 20 minute penalty for dodging again, this time besides the obvious Belica pick we got a Gideon and an Iggy as well, triple caster on top of Murdock being the first pick.

Like what the fuck is up with this shit? People need to pick what the team needs and not who they want to pick. 1 tank who either lanes or jungles, 1 jungling fighter/brawler, 1 ADC and 1 caster, 5th pick is optional and double ADC is ok, double caster is definitely not ok unless the other one is a support and tanky as fuck, 3 melees is ok. If Sparrow or TB gets picked (which they shouldn't, Murdock and Grim all day 'erryday), Riktor has to be picked. Otherwise the enemy team gets to go with assassin Khaimera or Feng Mao versus a 4 physical dmg comp with only 1 card for EHP which is gonna be physical armor and they are gonna hit like a truck, if the 5th energy dmg dude isn't a Murdock or Grim on top of his game then the disadvantage of having 4 physical dmg heroes is a significant one.

 

[smokey]

These queue dodge penalties are starting to add up, I dodged one queue where a guy was hellbent on picking TB and I was going to be the only melee, I got a 4 minute penalty. I just got a 20 minute penalty for dodging again, this time besides the obvious Belica pick we got a Gideon and an Iggy as well, triple caster on top of Murdock being the first pick.

Like what the fuck is up with this shit? People need to pick what the team needs and not who they want to pick. 1 tank who either lanes or jungles, 1 jungling fighter/brawler, 1 ADC and 1 caster, 5th pick is optional and double ADC is ok, double caster is definitely not ok unless the other one is a support and tanky as fuck, 3 melees is ok. If Sparrow or TB gets picked (which they shouldn't, Murdock and Grim all day 'erryday), Riktor has to be picked. Otherwise the enemy team gets to go with assassin Khaimera or Feng Mao versus a 4 physical dmg comp with only 1 card for EHP which is gonna be physical armor and they are gonna hit like a truck, if the 5th energy dmg dude isn't a Murdock or Grim on top of his game then the disadvantage of having 4 physical dmg heroes is a significant one.

You get this in every game, even on just PC where everyone can communicate easily what lane/role they will play, most people just say FU and do what they want.
I was first pick in a game yesterday and got Grux, put my "Jungle" mark up. Last pick is a rampage who then puts "jungle" and follows me around trying to last hit the jungle creeps from me while spamming "GOOD JOB" while im doing all the damage as he watched. I dont see why someone thinks this is a fun way to play the game but i plugged my keyboard in to tell him to get the fuck away from me.

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

You get this in every game, even on just PC where everyone can communicate easily what lane/role they will play, most people just say FU and do what they want.
I was first pick in a game yesterday and got Grux, put my "Jungle" mark up. Last pick is a rampage who then puts "jungle" and follows me around trying to last hit the jungle creeps from me while spamming "GOOD JOB" while im doing all the damage as he watched. I dont see why someone thinks this is a fun way to play the game but i plugged my keyboard in to tell him to get the fuck away from me.

I am not sure how the reporting system works or if it makes any difference. They need to implement a low priority queue and a reputation system or something. a 24 hour ban on someone who gets reported by all 4 other teammates is definitely something I want to see implemented.

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

Well it IS a game, so you can't get mad people pick what they want. It's what they have fun with.

I hate losing just as much as the next guy, but I like the queue dodge system. It punishes the assholes.

 

[smokey]

I am not sure how the reporting system works or if it makes any difference. They need to implement a low priority queue and a reputation system or something. a 24 hour ban on someone who gets reported by all 4 other teammates is definitely something I want to see implemented.

I prefer the delay method, get banned for a week or muted if you get some reports. Either way people will still be dicks, just might see them getting told off for it rather than just spending half an hour fucking with people and then LOL GG at the end.

 

[Pterodactyl]

Like what the fuck is up with this shit? People need to pick what the team needs and not who they want to pick.

I used to think this way, but now I'd rather have people use characters they understand and are competent with over comp smart picks that they have no idea how to use right. I think everyone should do that but most people don't care enough or are too in love with a certain play style or character.

I don't like to be that guy, so I practiced with quite a few characters in vs bot matches until I felt "good" with them on a basic level.

Even if I need another ADC, I'd rather not have some uninformed guy pick GRIM.exe and get whopped constantly throughout the game(feeding the enemies) when they would have been much more consistent with Grux or Greystone.

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

It is a TEAM game. It's all good to dick around and have fun and do whatever the hell you want as long as it doesn't take away the fun from everybody else. Somebody new picking Khaimera and sitting on a lane denying farm from a fellow Murdock is just that. He may be doing it out of ignorance and to him it feels like he is having fun and contributing to the team, but he is unintentionally putting the team at a disadvantage. Intentional or not, this still counts as griefing to some extent.

I view co-operative games like a group project at school. That one guy who doesn't do his pre-work and shows up to the scheduled meeting with nothing but a smile and a story how he had fun last night with a crazy foreign exchange student is an inconsiderate douchebag, plain and simple. Everybody else has to pick up his slack and the whole group gets dragged down with him.

I don't think it's too much to ask from people to learn at least 1 ADC, 1 tank and 1 jungler. The guys who get to pick first have the luxury of picking what they want, people that pick later have to adapt accordingly. The guys who are first on the draft can also adapt to the pre-lock in pick of the later drafters if they so choose and if they have the decks for it, this is what I do pretty much every time.

The game is new and there will be people new to MOBAs for sure. I am not asking for MLG level of understanding of the game, I am simply asking for people to apply at least some common sense and pre-meditated effort. The people who want to do exactly as they please should go back to PVE or 1vs1 games.

 

[Pterodactyl]

I'm not saying people shouldn't learn how to play all the class types.

I'm saying it's better to have a bad comp with competent players than a good comp with shitty players sometimes.

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

OK so I made a Sevarog deck. I got energy armor anywhere between 132 from just 6p tuned barrier up to 210 with either Thorned greenweave or Splinterbark vest on top of that and dropping 3p strike from assassin's ward. Physical armor is anywhere between 176 to 200+ depending on how I slot my Spiked Boneplate

Basically cards that I am going to slot no matter what are:

Windcarver blade 10p, all atk speed.

6p Tempered plate, later to be ditched for Spiked boneplate.

Assassin's ward with a minimum of 12p. 4p pen card and 5p lifesteal card are played no matter what, dmg upgrade as the 3rd is optional. So my only sustain is 15 lifesteal and minimum pen is 80.

6p tuned barrier with all minor barriers.

13p Spiked boneplate with 5p guard slotted no matter what and 3p guard most likely. Last upgrade is either 2p strike or 2p guard, can also drop the 3p guard and go with the 2p guard and 2p strike and make one other card cost 1 point more, most likely with dmg.

2 situational cards to choose from are: Thorned Greenweave, Scourging Tails, Splinterbark Vest, Voidsteel Dagger and Hunter's Guile.

I got 1 minor strike and all the strikes and major strikes I will ever need and one 3p barrier as well as 3p health on the unallocated upgrade pool. Consumables are Jungle drink, Mana potion and Harvester's key.

I am thinking this is more of a fighter/bruiser deck than a tank deck, the dmg gets pretty high and there is only either 100 or 400 extra health, despite being able to crank the armor up to around 200 for both types. Only sustain is the 15 lifesteal, there is no CDR and no extra mana, nor any health or mana regen. Sevarog has mobility though so he might not need to be as tanky as Riktor or Steel anyway.

This deck could potentially work though even with Sparrow or TB as the carry. Enemies would build physical armor pretty much guaranteed no matter what ELO, but by properly using Scourging tails with Sevarog's abilities or either sticking to someone and hitting then repeatedly with Splinterbark vest buff up, the armor shredding could potentially turn a team fight.

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

OK so I made a Sevarog deck. I got energy armor anywhere between 132 from just 6p tuned barrier up to 210 with either Thorned greenweave or Splinterbark vest on top of that and dropping 3p strike from assassin's ward. Physical armor is anywhere between 176 to 200+ depending on how I slot my Spiked Boneplate

Basically cards that I am going to slot no matter what are:

Windcarver blade 10p, all atk speed.

6p Tempered plate, later to be ditched for Spiked boneplate.

Assassin's ward with a minimum of 12p. 4p pen card and 5p lifesteal card are played no matter what, dmg upgrade as the 3rd is optional. So my only sustain is 15 lifesteal and minimum pen is 80.

6p tuned barrier with all minor barriers.

13p Spiked boneplate with 5p guard slotted no matter what and 3p guard most likely. Last upgrade is either 2p strike or 2p guard, can also drop the 3p guard and go with the 2p guard and 2p strike and make one other card cost 1 point more, most likely with dmg.

2 situational cards to choose from are: Thorned Greenweave, Scourging Tails, Splinterbark Vest, Voidsteel Dagger and Hunter's Guile.

I got 1 minor strike and all the strikes and major strikes I will ever need and one 3p barrier as well as 3p health on the unallocated upgrade pool. Consumables are Jungle drink, Mana potion and Harvester's key.

I am thinking this is more of a fighter/bruiser deck than a tank deck, the dmg gets pretty high and there is only either 100 or 400 extra health, despite being able to crank the armor up to around 200 for both types. Only sustain is the 15 lifesteal, there is no CDR and no extra mana, nor any health or mana regen. Sevarog has mobility though so he might not need to be as tanky as Riktor or Steel anyway.

This deck could potentially work though even with Sparrow or TB as the carry. Enemies would build physical armor pretty much guaranteed no matter what ELO, but by properly using Scourging tails with Sevarog's abilities or either sticking to someone and hitting then repeatedly with Splinterbark vest buff up, the armor shredding could potentially turn a team fight.

Why splinterbark w sev tho? Much better fit for rampage or narbash(that active plus his ult destroys armor). Unless your building attack speed w sev ur not gonna shred enough armor in that 6 sec to make much a difference.

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

Why splinterbark w sev tho? Much better fit for rampage or narbash(that active plus his ult destroys armor). Unless your building attack speed w sev ur not gonna shred enough armor in that 6 sec to make much a difference.

Well I haven't actually played that deck yet , it's just there in case I need it. One option might be to pair it with silent indignation. I made a deck for Iggy as well which I haven't tried, just because I bought 1k coins and used them on deck slots lol.

I'd like to get games with full parties where people are aware of the team fight synergies and potential counterpicks, but it just seems that if I wanna win solo queue I have to pick Either Murdock, Rampage or Khaimera with an "all purpose" deck. It just gets boring sometimes, like I'd want to try different things but it just isn't possible in solo queue.

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

Well I haven't actually played that deck yet , it's just there in case I need it. One option might be to pair it with silent indignation. I made a deck for Iggy as well which I haven't tried, just because I bought 1k coins and used them on deck slots lol.

I'd like to get games with full parties where people are aware of the team fight synergies and potential counterpicks, but it just seems that if I wanna win solo queue I have to pick Either Murdock, Rampage or Khaimera with an "all purpose" deck. It just gets boring sometimes, like I'd want to try different things but it just isn't possible in solo queue.

I generally run a trio with my 2 friends and we are always looking for well educated members to join us.

Sadly, judging from your name id have to assume you queue EU servers?

If u can queue US we would love to have you buddy

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

I generally run a trio with my 2 friends and we are always looking for well educated members to join us.

Sadly, judging from your name id have to assume you queue EU servers?

If u can queue US we would love to have you buddy

I've played with a Canadian streamer every now and then, despite the around 150'ish ping the game runs fairly smoothly most of the time, but playing an ADC or Riktor might not be the best idea.

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

I've played with a Canadian streamer every now and then, despite the around 150'ish ping the game runs fairly smoothly most of the time, but playing an ADC or Riktor might not be the best idea.

Add me on psn then.

Same name as here.

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

BTW I found the exact timing to make a respawning Kallari who likes to insta ult back into the fight kill herself. All you gotta do is be separated from your team mates by a slight distance, be low on health and wait for the enemy Kallari respawn countdown to hit 4-5 seconds to go, then start recalling back to base. Time it right and you get X marked just before you TP back and she will hit you when you are in your base and die instantly

Edit. I checked the replay of the game and it was actually 3 seconds left when I started recalling but it took about 3 seconds for her to choose the target.

In case you want to see it, here is the replay ID: d2f9aaf5148a4e7ea514bc1c94a291f5 Skip to 27 minutes in.

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

I played 2 games as Sevarog, felt right at home with his abilities, but I've found that trying to alternate between auto attacks on white camps, then trying to last hit siphon 2 creeps at once gives me tunnel vision and I am hardly looking at the minimap at all when jungling with him.

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

I finally got Bud of the changeling (all lifesteal and regen buffed when poisoned), managed to squeeze it into my Khaimera deck as a situational counter to Iggy with Tainted magick or other corruption characters with poison cards. Ever since getting to gold league I have been steadily winning games. Last 25 games on Agora always shows 20-5 to 18-7 when I check it. Losing at gold will drop your ELO more than winning since there seems to be a lot of people on silver in the teams as well when I check the individual stats of games.

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

af21241258ae4c37a759b64e7f8d3ddd

There's a link to a game I played as Riktor. I thought I was pulling Grux before his pull hit the ground but if you jump to 35:00 and watch the situation that follows, it clearly shows Grux's pull just whiffing and me punishing the whiff. The thing is I was aiming at him and waiting for him to do the pull and I cast hook as fast as I could. I may have been reacting to Grux stopping and leaving travel mode before. I dunno, if Grux is not in travel mode and he is aiming his pull then it might not be possible to catch him with Riktor's hook before the hitbox on Grux's pull becomes active, but if you react to Grux stopping and leaving travel mode then it might be possible to pull him with Riktor on reaction/anticipation if you are looking out for it.

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

https://www.epicgames.com/paragon/en-US/news/v32-release-notes

Travel mode speed is nerfed and prime card is activated instantly for the team to kill OP. OP dunks are gone and there is no way to respawn inhibitors. Side harvesters become available at 3 min and OP harvester at 6 min. Slight nerfs to towers and inhibitors.

What I think this means is that warding OP at all times after 15-20 minutes is of paramount importance. There will be more solo Khaimeras trying to steal OP. Knowing when to stay on a lane and when you can recall as well as how to plan your rotation ahead becomes even more important. Having early lead and map control actually means something now and making a comeback after an inhibitor is down becomes a lot harder. I think we won't be seeing 1 hour + games anymore. In terms of class balance I think this will be interesting, travel mode nerf clearly favours ranged characters but having games last a shorter amount of time after maxed out CXP clearly puts on emphasis on early game advantage and junglers.

One thing I'd dislike is games ending before maxed out cards as the norm, we'll see how it turns out but I'd like them to increase all XP gain if this happens.

 

[1man3letters]

all the other changes i dont really mind (besides them cockteasing by them keep saying travel mode is being fully taken out at some point) but i really dunno how i feel about the OP changes :/

seems like a huge nerf to the defensive side of the game.
i fucking would bet money any time im solo qing ill be the only one warding up around the op buff, even with the ward event there was shit all wards in most games this week

i wonder aswell since games will be ending before you max out your cards points alot more how much that will change the balance of certain characters being strong/weak past the mid game

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

At first I didn't like the new meta at all, but I am getting used to it. There is a weird mechanic with the minion waves, you can simply kill the ranged and siege minions then move on to the next wave and do the same, maybe leave 3 melees alive. The melees on your waves will get killed off slowly but if the lane is left unchecked by the opposing team, you can "stack" the lanes in a way were your minion waves get merged and your waves have shitloads of siege/ranged minions and a severe advantage in firepower. The lane will then push itself after the halfway point towards the enemy inhibitor and will take it down if left unchecked. I've been extending my rotations as a laner to about 6, 9 or even 12 max unspent cxp. You just have to avoid PVP fights as best you can.

People are mostly still playing like they used to, they just farm and try to keep CXP up by going back frequently then rotate to gank if a tower is about to get pushed or someone is overextended but it doesn't work like that anymore. By the time most people have the "Oh shit we gotta defend that tower/lane" reaction it's already too late. When you push a lane past the halfway point and instead of going back to spend your CXP just before the gank squad arrives, you gotta go to your jungle, take 1 or both white camps then go back to the lane and wait for an enemy to come push the lane back, you let them push it to however close to your inhibitor they wanna push it, when they leave to switch lanes, jungle or spend their CXP you push it back to get the minion wave stacking effect back up again. Last side to push their lane has the stacking effect even if they are not intentionally doing it and it needs to be cancelled as soon as possible. After tier one towers are down, jungling becomes somewhat irrelevant, if you are going to collect harvester XP or something else, you can take a camp here and there, but sitting in the jungle all game and just trying to gank and wait for max cxp to lane is ineffective. Bottom line is, all lanes have to be occupied pretty much at all times. Lanes don't just naturally freeze anymore if they are left unoccupied and by the time you see an enemy pop up to push an unoccupied lane once it's past the halfway point it might be too late, so you have to stay on the lane. When team mates come to attempt a gank on the lane and push it it's your turn to recall to spend CXP.

Trying to get a CXP advantage and forcing fights and trying to take towers by brute force and deathballing isn't really the way to go. Even if all 3 middle harvesters are lost to the enemy and they are ahead on CXP all game you can still win the game by simply not leaving the lanes unattended.

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

At first I didn't like the new meta at all, but I am getting used to it. There is a weird mechanic with the minion waves, you can simply kill the ranged and siege minions then move on to the next wave and do the same, maybe leave 3 melees alive. The melees on your waves will get killed off slowly but if the lane is left unchecked by the opposing team, you can "stack" the lanes in a way were your minion waves get merged and your waves have shitloads of siege/ranged minions and a severe advantage in firepower. The lane will then push itself after the halfway point towards the enemy inhibitor and will take it down if left unchecked. I've been extending my rotations as a laner to about 6, 9 or even 12 max unspent cxp. You just have to avoid PVP fights as best you can.

People are mostly still playing like they used to, they just farm and try to keep CXP up by going back frequently then rotate to gank if a tower is about to get pushed or someone is overextended but it doesn't work like that anymore. By the time most people have the "Oh shit we gotta defend that tower/lane" reaction it's already too late. When you push a lane past the halfway point and instead of going back to spend your CXP just before the gank squad arrives, you gotta go to your jungle, take 1 or both white camps then go back to the lane and wait for an enemy to come push the lane back, you let them push it to however close to your inhibitor they wanna push it, when they leave to switch lanes, jungle or spend their CXP you push it back to get the minion wave stacking effect back up again. Last side to push their lane has the stacking effect even if they are not intentionally doing it and it needs to be cancelled as soon as possible. After tier one towers are down, jungling becomes somewhat irrelevant, if you are going to collect harvester XP or something else, you can take a camp here and there, but sitting in the jungle all game and just trying to gank and wait for max cxp to lane is ineffective. Bottom line is, all lanes have to be occupied pretty much at all times. Lanes don't just naturally freeze anymore if they are left unoccupied and by the time you see an enemy pop up to push an unoccupied lane once it's past the halfway point it might be too late, so you have to stay on the lane. When team mates come to attempt a gank on the lane and push it it's your turn to recall to spend CXP.

Trying to get a CXP advantage and forcing fights and trying to take towers by brute force and deathballing isn't really the way to go. Even if all 3 middle harvesters are lost to the enemy and they are ahead on CXP all game you can still win the game by simply not leaving the lanes unattended.

Cannot agree w this anymore.

I'm seeing entirely too many players forcing unnecessary fights and we lose towers because of it. And with the slower run speeds, there's less advantage to winning a team fight.

Winning one usually just results in pushing your lane back up for free and MAYBE a tower.

This all changes late game though, if spawn timers are over a minute and you win team fights, generally you can push all the way to inhibs.

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

I just tried Stab Link on Riktor, I got 9 kills, 4 deaths and 11 assists.

Anybody tried Kwang yet? Building him fairly tanky, similar to Khaimera might be the way to go. Maybe use Satori cloak on him (armor shred of both types on basic attacks based on a percentage of your armor), put some barriers on that to get your energy armor, Tempered plate, Assassin's ward, windcarver blade, maybe Scourging tails/Voidsteel dagger and Empyrean mask. Slot Assasins ward with 1 expensive lifesteal card, then finish that card last in case you want to replace Empyrean mask with another situational active card.