Match-up Discussion ONGOING Bane MU chart

[Johnny Based Cage]

I don't think I've ever seen that, and I'm pretty generous with my numbers.
Its 9-1 Zod if Bane can't get it, 9-1 Bane if he can. So probably 5-5.

I think that's old logic. Even Max has pretty much said Bane can't really do anything to get in against iazb's except Charge (easily punished) or double punch through them (takes damage and wastes trait to get nowhere fast). So if it's 9-1 Zod if he can't get in and 9-1 Bane if he can, but it's much harder for him to get in (plus he has to do it at least three times per match and that's assuming perfect reads on oki), then it's not really 5-5 is it?

Matchup charts are supposed to assume highest level and just because some players who will remain unnamed can't do iazb's perfectly doesn't mean the impact of iazb's on the matchup should be underestimated.

 

[Doombawkz]

I think that's old logic. Even Max has pretty much said Bane can't really do anything to get in against iazb's except Charge (easily punished) or double punch through them (takes damage and wastes trait to get nowhere fast). So if it's 9-1 Zod if he can't get in and 9-1 Bane if he can, but it's much harder for him to get in (plus he has to do it at least three times per match and that's assuming perfect reads on oki), then it's not really 5-5 is it?

Matchup charts are supposed to assume highest level and just because some players who will remain unnamed can't do iazb's perfectly doesn't mean the impact of iazb's on the matchup should be underestimated.

Because against "perfect" iazb, we can also assume the Bane can do perfect dash-duck cancels, right? So Bane actually has a drastically easy time because he can scoot under them.
Max can't do a lot of things, and also he doesn't have stellar Zod experience. I'm sure if we assumed the best of everything then Bane wouldn't lose vs anyone on account of just-frame stuffing everything with b.1.

But we assume that, logically, the people won't do everything perfectly. So no, its still about even. Highest level doesn't automatically mean the players are flawless, in fact we have no choice but assume they are flawed in order to generate honest answers.

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

Because against "perfect" iazb, we can also assume the Bane can do perfect dash-duck cancels, right? So Bane actually has a drastically easy time because he can scoot under them.
Max can't do a lot of things, and also he doesn't have stellar Zod experience. I'm sure if we assumed the best of everything then Bane wouldn't lose vs anyone on account of just-frame stuffing everything with b.1.

But we assume that, logically, the people won't do everything perfectly. So no, its still about even. Highest level doesn't automatically mean the players are flawless, in fact we have no choice but assume they are flawed in order to generate honest answers.

Maybe because iazb's low enough to prevent his approach are actually a thing players are pulling off consistently? Hitbox Zod is a legitimate high level concern or @rev0lver wouldn't have to make threads about Lex's 0-10 matchup.

Whereas magical wave-dashing Bane who can duck under a screen filled with Zod balls is not a real thing. What high-level Bane with actual Zod experience ("hitbox Zod," not Zod who shoots fireballs three feet above your head) still thinks this matchup is 5-5? I'm not even trying to be a dick, I'm legitimately asking if anyone really thinks this is an even matchup still?

 

[HomeLee1121]

Maybe because iazb's low enough to prevent his approach are actually a thing players are pulling off consistently? Hitbox Zod is a legitimate high level concern or @rev0lver wouldn't have to make threads about Lex's 0-10 matchup.

Whereas magical wave-dashing Bane who can duck under a screen filled with Zod balls is not a real thing. What high-level Bane with actual Zod experience ("hitbox Zod," not Zod who shoots fireballs three feet above your head) still thinks this matchup is 5-5? I'm not even trying to be a dick, I'm legitimately asking if anyone really thinks this is an even matchup still?

i do

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

i do

I'd love an explanation when you finish checking on that burger, please.

Lol

 

[HomeLee1121]

I'd love an explanation when you finish checking on that burger, please.

Lol

hahahahahahahahahahaha do you like medium or well done

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

hahahahahahahahahahaha do you like medium or well done

Rare, like Bane's chances of getting in once that screen is filled with slow balls. /KAPPA

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

You're absolutely right. I learned that tactic from watching some people claim Bane bops Zod just to feel better after an 11 year old bodied them free in tournament.

11 year old 1 top 8, no Evo medal

79 year old 4 top 8s top2 Evo medal and never lost to bane again after learning his lesson in a 5-5

Mrs Jackson.....never accomplished anything and carries MU #s w no backing merit yet MU cops like a he's fucking Tokido but ......yea

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

11 year old 1 top 8, no Evo medal

79 year old 4 top 8s top2 medal and never lost to bane again after learning his lesson in a 5-5

Mrs Jackson.....never accomplished anything and carries MU #s w no backing merit yet MU cops like a he's Tokido

Never lost to Bane again.

5-5

 

[Doombawkz]

Maybe because iazb's low enough to prevent his approach are actually a thing players are pulling off consistently? Hitbox Zod is a legitimate high level concern or @rev0lver wouldn't have to make threads about Lex's 0-10 matchup.

Whereas magical wave-dashing Bane who can duck under a screen filled with Zod balls is not a real thing. What high-level Bane with actual Zod experience ("hitbox Zod," not Zod who shoots fireballs three feet above your head) still thinks this matchup is 5-5? I'm not even trying to be a dick, I'm legitimately asking if anyone really thinks this is an even matchup still?

Theres a difference between us and Lex, namely our dash isn't complete garbo. We actually have options.

All things considered, theres only two Banes (maybe 3) who are actually out there.
@GGA Max , who albeit is probably the most successful Bane. His strategy doesn't change from match to match. Not much Zod experience, I can't imagine.
@RM_Biohazard , who I haven't seen enough of to where I mistook him for a Grundy player. Not sure on his experience.
annnnnnnnnnnnnnd @Kyu who kinda pops in and out. Also don't know his experience.

Give a Bane player time to fight a Zod, and even perfect IAZB will eventually become a tactic point for them.
I can safely say the thing I'm most impressed about with Bane players is we have every tool needed to not care about MU details, but they still learn.
They still grasp for any advantage they can build, and take the MU into deeper consideration than people think.
They don't succeed because of their character, they succeed in spite of their character. So does "magical wave-dash Bane" not exist?
You say it doesn't, I simply say "not yet."

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Never lost to Bane again.

5-5

No I'm very open about this

I always keep an open MU mind and living MU chart and at the time I could see 6-4 bane . Meta evolved,
Players and MUs evolved and now I'm currently at 5-5 or 6-4 ZOD

It's still living as in living between discussion w me and banes who grind like max, bio, bipolar , rev etc

Saying 9-1 is....not even worth commenting about

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

Theres a difference between us and Lex, namely our dash isn't complete garbo. We actually have options.

All things considered, theres only two Banes (maybe 3) who are actually out there.
@GGA Max , who albeit is probably the most successful Bane. His strategy doesn't change from match to match. Not much Zod experience, I can't imagine.
@RM_Biohazard , who I haven't seen enough of to where I mistook him for a Grundy player. Not sure on his experience.
annnnnnnnnnnnnnd @Kyu who kinda pops in and out. Also don't know his experience.

Give a Bane player time to fight a Zod, and even perfect IAZB will eventually become a tactic point for them.
I can safely say the thing I'm most impressed about with Bane players is we have every tool needed to not care about MU details, but they still learn.
They still grasp for any advantage they can build, and take the MU into deeper consideration than people think.
They don't succeed because of their character, they succeed in spite of their character. So does "magical wave-dash Bane" not exist?
You say it doesn't, I simply say "not yet."

While I truly appreciate an awesome, motivational Bane post like that, I thought Bane's dash was legitimately too long to even be able to dash cancel between true IAZB's. I could be wrong, though. We'd have to get a Zod who can actually do them in here; maybe @KHAOTIC ARMOR would know?

 

[Doombawkz]

Saying 9-1 is....not even worth commenting about

I think he was referring to my justification of a 5-5 being "9-1 if he can get in, 1-9 if he can't".
Just in case there was any confusion.

 

[Doombawkz]

While I truly appreciate an awesome, motivational Bane post like that, I thought Bane's dash was legitimately too long to even be able to dash cancel between true IAZB's. I could be wrong, though. We'd have to get a Zod who can actually do them in here; maybe @KHAOTIC ARMOR would know?

I found tech, specifically because I hate Bane's interrupting my dash in mirrors. That's what happens, something looks like a problem so I make tech for it.
We can cancel backdash too, but that's really only useful in DD MUs.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

While I truly appreciate an awesome, motivational Bane post like that, I thought Bane's dash was legitimately too long to even be able to dash cancel between true IAZB's. I could be wrong, though. We'd have to get a Zod who can actually do them in here; maybe @KHAOTIC ARMOR would know?

Quite honestly I don't need one IAZB to make u feel like the MU is 10-0 ZOD

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

No I'm very open about this

I always keep an open MU mind and living MU chart and at the time I could see 6-4 bane . Meta evolved,
Players and MUs evolved and now I'm currently at 5-5 or 6-4 ZOD

It's still living as in living between discussion w me and banes who grind like max, bio, bipolar , rev etc

Saying 9-1 is....not even worth commenting about

LOL! You act like I said the Zod - Bane matchup is 9-1 or like I said Sinestro and Superman beat Bane 8-2 or some shit. I agreed with Bio that they're all 6-4 (Zod might get worse pending Bane's ability to dash-duck iazb's) and tried to explain why with discussion based on their toolsets.

All you did was come in here and brag about your tournament accomplishments and not actually contribute to the matchup discussion whatsoever. I don't travel but that doesn't mean I don't ever play anyone worthwhile. Had a great set with Goomba just last night even. I'm just trying to explain why I agree with one side of the discussion based on my own experience and general considerations of what the characters in question have to offer. I don't think I need an Evo medal to try to contribute constructively.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

LOL! You act like I said the Zod - Bane matchup is 9-1 or like I said Sinestro and Superman beat Bane 8-2 or some shit. I agreed with Bio that they're all 6-4 (Zod might get worse pending Bane's ability to dash-duck iazb's) and tried to explain why with discussion based on their toolsets.

All you did was come in here and brag about your tournament accomplishments and not actually contribute to the matchup discussion whatsoever. I don't travel but that doesn't mean I don't ever play anyone worthwhile. Had a great set with Goomba just last night even. I'm just trying to explain why I agree with one side of the discussion based on my own experience and general considerations of what the characters in question have to offer. I don't think I need an Evo medal to try to contribute constructively.

No man I'm saying I play SF casually and w good players but I'm not on srk MU copping akuma MUs

 

[Doombawkz]

LOL! You act like I said the Zod - Bane matchup is 9-1 .

I think he was referring to my justification of a 5-5 being "9-1 if he can get in, 1-9 if he can't".
Just in case there was any confusion.

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

Quite honestly I don't need one IAZB to make u feel like the MU is 10-0 ZOD

Stated with all the maturity of a grown man with wife and child who still gets banned from video game tournaments. And wow, 10-0 Zod?! That must be almost as bad as the Batgirl - Zod matchup.

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

No man I'm saying I play SF casually and w good players but I'm not on srk MU copping akuma MUs

And once again how is agreeing with Bio's numbers "matchup copping?" Should Doombawks not agree with Kyu because he has 0 tournament medals? Should Kyu not even post a chart to begin with because he's only won locals? It's attitudes like yours that relegate this community to a status of the red-headed stepchild of the fgc.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Stated with all the maturity of a grown man with wife and child who still gets banned from video game tournaments. And wow, 10-0 Zod?! That must be almost as bad as the Batgirl - Zod matchup.

BG ZOD is 5-5

Won 3-2 WF
Choked 6-0 GF

No matter what u say, or what piss poor desperate jabs u try to throw my way and land you'll miss me consistently on every level because your not even standing on my level. Despite any attempts u make to get noticed thru MU copping and throwing weak jabs you'll fail in every facet in the game and off

 

[Doombawkz]

Stated with all the maturity of a grown man with wife and child who still gets banned from video game tournaments. And wow, 10-0 Zod?! That must be almost as bad as the Batgirl - Zod matchup.

I'm gonna go ahead and diffuse this right now before it gets ugly.

1) Leave the family out of it. Unnecessary, and its really not a line you wanna cross with anyone, especially a family man.

2) He got banned for, what I could gather, was a completely bogus reason.

3) He placed 2nd at EVO, so just off of merit his word weighs way more than yours. He also plays one of the characters, Zod, at what can be assumed is the highest level for that character (hence his result) so that provides a second layer of backing because he is the palette for that side of the MU. If he says its 5-5, he might just happen to know more than you do and has played that MU at the level we are discussing.

4)

Doombawks not agree with Kyu because he has 0 tournament medals?

My name ends with a Z, and I can't stress enough how common the mistake is but still.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

And once again how is agreeing with Bio's numbers "matchup copping?" Should Doombawks not agree with Kyu because he has 0 tournament medals? Should Kyu not even post a chart to begin with because he's only won locals? It's attitudes like yours that relegate this community to a status of the red-headed stepchild of the fgc.

All those guys have merit and are well liked members of the community. Stop trying to associate yourself w them and bring them down

 

[Doombawkz]

All those guys have merit and are well liked members of the community. Stop trying to associate yourself w them and bring them down

-sees Pig compliment Bane players-
-sees my name involved-

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

-sees Pig compliment Bane players-
-sees my name involved-

Man u make me want a pug but not sure current dog would approve