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General/Other - Ferra/Torr [Old] Ferra/Torr variations discussion.

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truendymion

Apprentice
They were blockable in MK9 that's why I'm wondering if they'll stick to that or go with Injustice style... What I really want is KOF style a la Clarke. His combos into grabs look so badass!!
 

Mechacide

Apprentice
They were blockable in MK9 that's why I'm wondering if they'll stick to that or go with Injustice style... What I really want is KOF style a la Clarke. His combos into grabs look so badass!!
Yeah but they corrected a lot of MK9 mistakes in Injustice, command grabs being one, can't imagine they'll undo that : )
 

Art

Grave_Intent
looks bottom tier :confused:
How can you possibly say that? The game isn't even out yet!
Yeah but they corrected a lot of MK9 mistakes in Injustice, command grabs being one, can't imagine they'll undo that : )
I hope for all our sakes the kommand grabs for MKX will not be stupid DBF inputs like injustice.

As far as this "pair" kharacter goes I'm very interested to see how they play and what we can kome up with for kombos inside the different kombat styles.
 

Shark Tank

I don't actually play these games
I really want to know if command grabs unblockable? I hope they handle them KOF style.
Kof 13 grabs that are both unblockable and combo able? I don't think any move had that property in mk9, they either were unblockable and not comboable or comboable and blockable. Then again I don't consider anything blockable to be a true throw, it's more of a auto combo attack animation.

Grundy's throw were unblockable and comboable so some throws will may work like that? That's probably the closest throw properties to kof, and since mechanics form inj will probably transfer over to mkx I would say it's hopeful. I think kotal's sun god throw has similar properties. They'll probably also still have those pseudo grabs in mkx.
 

Art

Grave_Intent
What would you prefer?
Like any other character a command grab is a special move right? So why no simple inputs like other characters like DF or DB plus a button? For example in Street Figher a full 360 motion plus a button to grab on 4 different grapple characters, now granted it can be done effectively but with allot of practice (as I learned over time and practice). In every fighting game I feel grapplers get the shaft from having PITA inputs, and having to try and get in on everyone at the same time. Most grapplers don't have projectiles as well, so it makes it even harder thus grapplers become low to mid tier at best.

I just hope that MKX gives newer players a better chance to learn basics and fundamentals rather than having to master a specific move. This would allow a whole new group of players to enter the scene and hopefully make the game more strategic around footsies and spacing rather than over-powered move sets. Also with the dash button and a block button in MKX it will be hard enough to get players into it due to the hand coordination I feel, most of us are used to it in the FGC, but in order for a game to succeed I mean REALLY succeed it needs a large fan and player base. To do that it has to be...well a little more "user friendly". Take Marvel vs. Capcom 3, for example it only uses 4 buttons as dose Injustice, I feel that's why even though the top players are still there those games have a large fan base because of the games easy to use play-style. Making the game more user-friendly is just a logical adaptation to add to it's success IMO.

Take it or leave it, that's how I see the evolution of a good fighting game.
 
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Mechacide

Apprentice
The reason for the long inputs for command grabs is because command grabs are usually very few frames, so the inputs are there to extend those frames (so if a grab is 3 frame, but requires d,b,f+3 it becomes 6 frames). But you get around this by buffering the input into a jump or a normal. If you were to make the inputs much simpler the character would become too powerful or the throw would have to be made much slower and then you ruin the point of the character.

Besides, d,b,f is much easier than 360. If MK commands get much simpler we may as well play on an NES controller : P
 

Art

Grave_Intent
The reason for the long inputs for command grabs is because command grabs are usually very few frames, so the inputs are there to extend those frames (so if a grab is 3 frame, but requires d,b,f+3 it becomes 6 frames). But you get around this by buffering the input into a jump or a normal. If you were to make the inputs much simpler the character would become too powerful or the throw would have to be made much slower and then you ruin the point of the character.

Besides, d,b,f is much easier than 360. If MK commands get much simpler we may as well play on an NES controller : P
You said NOTHING I didn't already know bro. Think of it as a new comer stand-point. If you play a game and see that wow this character has a cool throw special move, I want to play him/her, then come to find out that it's a bitch to do in a fight then well your turned off by the game and bingo player/fan base goes down by one. Simple math.

All I was saying is the game design doesn't need "buffered inputs" just make certain moves have + on block as if they were meant to be a parry or counter type ability if that's what your shooting for. Then the input would be able to be on speed par with other special moves from all characters.
 

Mechacide

Apprentice
All I was saying is the game design doesn't need "buffered inputs" just make certain moves have + on block as if they were meant to be a parry or counter type ability if that's what your shooting for. Then the input would be able to be on speed par with other special moves from all characters.
I don't understand what you're saying. You want throws to be + on block? Or you want all a grappler's normals to be + on block to remove the need of buffering? That still solves nothing because you could point blank do your unlockable 3 frame throw. If you want simpler commands you'd HAVE to make the throws slower, which would completely destroy a grappler's game plan.

And three directions really isn't a difficult input. USFIV easily has the biggest FGC right now and it requires much stricter execution than MK. I don't think it's difficulty that puts people off MK...

And the game definitely does need a "buffered input design", otherwise you'd be changing everything about how it plays, execution wise.
 

Barrogh

Meta saltmine
Grundy disagrees that long inputs are necessity, and I don't think that it was startup on chain that was killing him.
Heck, nothing stops you from having different startup for the same move from neutral and when you cancel into it, for example, not to mention that sufficient cancel advantage on certain strings already does what's needed - it's not like MK is known to be link-happy game.

So, what's the problem again?
 

Art

Grave_Intent
Grundy disagrees that long inputs are necessity, and I don't think that it was startup on chain that was killing him.
Heck, nothing stops you from having different startup for the same move from neutral and when you cancel into it, for example, not to mention that sufficient cancel advantage on certain strings already does what's needed - it's not like MK is known to be link-happy game.

So, what's the problem again?
No problems, I just think in games we have atm that grapplers are at a disadvantage. I play Gundy too and Ares but as far as command grabs go I with there was an in-between going from a single button push to a long input, to sort of keep grapplers in the same power levels as other character arch-types.
 

Mechacide

Apprentice
Grundy disagrees that long inputs are necessity, and I don't think that it was startup on chain that was killing him.
Heck, nothing stops you from having different startup for the same move from neutral and when you cancel into it, for example, not to mention that sufficient cancel advantage on certain strings already does what's needed - it's not like MK is known to be link-happy game.

So, what's the problem again?
Yes, you're absolutely right. I'm not sure what I was talking about, looking back on it. I mean, even if it did apply to Injustice or MK (which it doesn't), that extra 1 frame from the additional input really wouldn't make much difference at all.

Sorry for my lapse in intelligence : S
 

testyourpatience

Ya'll stingy
you mean the one i posted? i can still see it. it's his ruthless variation and it just says it trades pain for power. ferra stabs her blades into torrs back, increasing his damage output. this variation is about balancing risk against reward and is excellent for rushdown. basically a more fair bane.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
You know what they say.
Trade 12.5% of your health for 14 seconds of level 3 damage and no withdrawl. More fair than Bane
 
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