Official UMK3:TE Changelog and Discussion Thread

[dubson]

Also like Stryker's is horrible as a "straight-up" anti-air. But its has great range as a punisher and ground mix-up, as well as Running under the kick by reducing the space between your opponent and readily running under them enough to hit them from the other side with a round house.

But as far as punishers are concerned they wanted this game to be more advanced than just RH'ing someone. So he can juggle you.

Also, he has grenades, and those induce jumping or act as anti-air. And a great HK and anti-air uppercut to boot. And riot gun.

It's so much than just, "this person has a bad RH".

 

[REO]

Dubson, I don't think you get what I'm saying, lol. I'm not saying Jade or Robot Smoke can't anti air. I'm just saying they have a next to worthless move taking up bandwidth called a roundhouse. I only used Jade and Robot Smoke as an example. There are MANY more characters with atrocious roundhouses. I'm just saying, why do we want to keep useless moves? Why not make them viable and situational to use instead of completely unreliable and currently useless? Roundhouses are slower than HKs, so wouldn't it make sense if roundhouses had an even bigger hitbox to make up for the calculating time and commitment?

A balance hack is supposed to balance all things, not just some things. Moves that were deemed "useless" before have recieved buffs to make them viable. This includes Kabal's saw blade, Stryker's baton trip, Jade's regular straight boomerang, etc. etc. Why can't we apply the same logic for some characters round houses?

 

[dubson]

Yeah, but saying the characters who have next to useless roundhouses should receive a slightly bigger hitbox isn't too demanding I would think. The hacker did change more advanced moves such as slightly decreasing the hitbox on Kabal's spin, increasing the hitbox on Stryker's riot gun, and various other changes to hitbox sizes.

Why couldn't the hacker be able to give characters who have useless roundhouses a slightly bigger hitbox?

Yeah, your right. That seems like something he could possibly do, from what I would assume. I do think your right, it should be explored. I guess Im just saying I think they have already thought of what we want. At least on a shallow degree, lol.

Dubson, I don't think you get what I'm saying, lol. I'm not saying Jade or Robot Smoke can't anti air. I'm just saying they have a next to worthless move taking up bandwidth called a roundhouse. I only used Jade and Robot Smoke as an example. There are MANY more characters with atrocious roundhouses. I'm just saying, why do we want to keep useless moves? Why not make them viable and situational to use instead of completely unreliable and currently useless? Roundhouses are slower than HKs, so wouldn't it make sense if roundhouses had an even bigger hitbox to make up for the calculating time and commitment?

A balance hack is supposed to balance all things, not just some things. Moves that were deemed "useless" before have recieved buffs to make them viable. This includes Kabal's saw blade, Stryker's baton trip, Jade's regular straight boomerang, etc. etc. Why can't we apply the same logic for some characters round houses?

I hear you. I just think they may have already thought of this and is due to inherent balancing issues. To more of a degree than we initially give credit. Some things people may think are bad (myself included), really serve a discrete purpose NRS already thought of (maybe, you'd have to at least think, and hope).

PS, when I " ", I'm not necessarily quoting you or anyone, just speaking in a very general way. This game is very very old... Many have come and gone, and asked the same questions. Myself included have wondered the same, wanted the same, for years and years. It's easy to assume at times I am quoting you or directing points at you if the subject has to do with referencing topics that have been brought up a million times before, over many many years.

I do love what is looking like is possible, i kompletely agree, don't get it twisted. Im just saying, others Have wondered the same and wanted the same. But handle with kaution.

 

[Konqrr]

But to me it feels like some characters have roundhouses and some just don't... When I'm playing a character like Jade or Robo Smoke, the round house is basically non-existent to me. Things like this are bad. You never want to have moves that are not viable. Am I really the only person that feels this way? I don't see how having more options for every character is a bad thing.

Sure, some moves should be better for some than others. But when it gets to a point where the move is next to useless for some, that's wrong. Useless moves that fill up spots are just dumb, IMO. Isn't it bad enough how we have moves like cr.LP and cr.HK which are on the fence of being near useless or very situational? We don't need to add to that list, we need to shorten it as much as possible and make every move viable in it's own way.

Sweeps are a perfect example of this. EVERYONE has viable and usable sweeps. No one has virtually useless sweeps. Same with jabs. That's how it should be.

Female Ninja RH is very effective against crossups. Robo RH is good for ending combos. There are some that should be looked at though as you never ever see Sonya's RH for anything lol

cHK being -8 on hit is only punishable by a very small amount of things like Mileena Roll or a Slide, so use it sparingly in those matchups. And seriously trying to punish one on reaction at only being -8, you are asking to be punished yourself. You have to be really watching for it. I agree that being more negative on hit is bad, but what can really be done without messing with how things work. You know of some of the issues that were caused by changing frame data for normals (Elbows and Knees are a big one).

 

[Juggs]

There are some that should be looked at though as you never ever see Sonya's RH for anything lol

You see it for her corner combo(s).

 

[Konqrr]

Just played a new update. Now only Scorpion can jump after a Spear. Also, the jab pushback on hit in the corner now only occurs if your opponent is fully in the corner.

 

[DWednesday]

The idea with Ermac was to still allow all of his UMK3 combos. He initially had the TKS count as a hit, but that required the disable to be one hit higher to still allow all of his combos and that allowed an extra hit before TKS in a punishment situation that was too strong. This is why the TKS will not count as a hit.

Is it gunna stay like this, or is a "workaround" gunna be looked into? (I mean, it's definitely not high priority or anything)

Also, I wonder if there's any way to give certain moves throw properties, so like, the manhandle and the gotcha, and maybe the leg grab all worked on a "hold back to not get thrown" principle, considering these moves are all "command grab" type moves. This might be the dumbest of ideas. Iunno. Just throwing shit out there. Scrub Lyf.

Also also, all this talk of OH's (and adjusting move properties, in general), I really like these ideas, I know it's not really the most logical thing when it comes to balancing and what not, but I always thought if a move looks like it should hit a certain way (sindel's elbow = OH, NW's knee = low, etc) then it should hit in that way. Again, scrub lyf.

Also lastly also,

Now only Scorpion can jump after a Spear.

No love for Robot, hS, or Sindel?

 

[Juggs]

Also, I wonder if there's any way to give certain moves throw properties, so like, the manhandle and the gotcha, and maybe the leg grab all worked on a "hold back to not get thrown" principle, considering these moves are all "command grab" type moves. This might be the dumbest of ideas. Iunno. Just throwing shit out there. Scrub Lyf.

The command grabs are already blockable.

 

[RiBBz22]

Now only Scorpion can jump after a Spear.

I am starting to sense some racism here

 

[DWednesday]

The command grabs are already blockable.

Yes. I already know this. Which is why I made a suggestion at them being given throw properties...

 

[BustaUppa]

Yes. I already know this. Which is why I made a suggestion at them being given throw properties...

There would need to be some new custom reaction for blocking a command throw with a back input then. Otherwise the command throw startup would just pass through the opponent sprite, since the animation happens either way. Like, what would holding back to block a Gotcha actually look like?

 

[dreemernj]

There would need to be some new custom reaction for blocking a command throw with a back input then. Otherwise the command throw startup would just pass through the opponent sprite, since the animation happens either way. Like, what would holding back to block a Gotcha actually look like?

Like an Alpha Counter :-D

Nope. Too much SFA. I am just making things more difficult...

 

[REO]

Female Ninja RH is very effective against crossups. Robo RH is good for ending combos. There are some that should be looked at though as you never ever see Sonya's RH for anything lol

cHK being -8 on hit is only punishable by a very small amount of things like Mileena Roll or a Slide, so use it sparingly in those matchups. And seriously trying to punish one on reaction at only being -8, you are asking to be punished yourself. You have to be really watching for it. I agree that being more negative on hit is bad, but what can really be done without messing with how things work. You know of some of the issues that were caused by changing frame data for normals (Elbows and Knees are a big one).

Yeah, but any time you can do a "run under RH", why wouldn't you just do a run under uppercut instead? It does more damage and beats everything out more consistently than the roundhouse. And my problem isn't that you can be punished by the fastest specials in the game when you hit someone with a cr.HK, it's that you're FORCED to block then being able to run in and do a knee starter and pressure. When they block the cr.HK, they can't do this. It's only when they're hit with cr.HK. I wish the hacker could do something like maybe add more hitstun to the cr.HK kind of like he did for the cr.LP so it'd match the same frame data for when the opponent blocks a cr.HK.

 

[DWednesday]

There would need to be some new custom reaction for blocking a command throw with a back input then. Otherwise the command throw startup would just pass through the opponent sprite, since the animation happens either way. Like, what would holding back to block a Gotcha actually look like?

How about the animation used in the new corner jab pushback (the last block frames one) and it iceskates the opponent back a bit, but still gives them a chance to run in an counter/punish?

 

[nwo]

If you guys want an easy and good way to play this game online, I just compiled a version of Mameppk 119 today that recognizes the hacked MK roms.

The download link is in the video description, roms are not included.

 

[dubson]

Yeah, but any time you can do a "run under RH", why wouldn't you just do a run under uppercut instead? It does more damage and beats everything out more consistently than the roundhouse. And my problem isn't that you can be punished by the fastest specials in the game when you hit someone with a cr.HK, it's that you're FORCED to block then being able to run in and do a knee starter and pressure. When they block the cr.HK, they can't do this. It's only when they're hit with cr.HK. I wish the hacker could do something like maybe add more hitstun to the cr.HK kind of like he did for the cr.LP so it'd match the same frame data for when the opponent blocks a cr.HK.

Your point in regards to running under the opponent and opting for uppercut being superior to a RH is a strong point. It may come down to where you want to space them (further away from you with a RH) and it may come down to whether Your characters RH or Uppercut being better at that given point in time, since each character has better RH/uppecut/playstyle/etc. So it isn't so easy to say that any characters uppercut is automatically superior to RH when running under cross up jump attacks. It may also come down to the opponents hitbox. It may also come down to the opponents JK/JP animation. At the end of the day, it just all comes down to all of the tools available for the character and balancing.

For example, Kano's uppercut is very poor (ESPECIALLY in your situation of running under cross-ups but is just very bad in general). I would much rather go for run under RH with him than run under uppercut, even though his round house is horrible as a "straight up" anti-air (horrible all around). This isn't necessarily a position I want to find myself in... and I would much rather opt for his Air Throw or Vertical Cannonball. Point in case, both of those scenarios (run under uppercut/RH) suck for him.

So your saying since its optimal to do an uppercut in a running under cross-up scenario (for most characters/situations and that is true), that the RH should be blindly buffed to be a "straight-up"anti air for any character who has a weak one. (in that scenario). Just to make every character have a viable "straight up" anti-air RH. Well again the round house isn't strictly designed to be an anti-air. Technically, noone has a useless RH. Also it again comes down to the character. Sonya was used, for example. Her roundhouse is horrible in the context your referring to. But she is compensated by having two moves whose direct purpose is anti-air. She has a good uppercut as well and good standing HK for anti-air. If she had an excellent roundhouse, it would be too much you see? Just too much. She cant have every available option at every given point in time. This is part of the give and take and it must be fair for all characters and match-ups.

Every character has good anti-air options and the round house has more than one purpose/scenario. They just have different strengths/weaknesses as far as anti-airs go, and when which one is more/less viable in what scenario, and which better against certain characters. A lot goes into it... I promise you they probably have already thought very hard about giving certain characters a top tier round house but they never got it. Look at all the revisions this game went through. From MK3 to UMK3, through multiple revisions for each game, yet, female ninjas Round House (for example) looks and acts exactly the same. Why wouldn't they of changed it themselves? Certainly it could not have been that hard for them? I'm just thinking this was explored, and they came to fair/balanced decisions. At least to a shallow degree.

 

[Konqrr]

If you guys want an easy and good way to play this game online, I just compiled a version of Mameppk 119 today that recognizes the hacked MK roms.

The download link is in the video description, roms are not included.

For UMK3TE, you should put the game description as just that... UMK3 - Tournament Edition. That way, when more versions become public (which 33 will be out soon), you don't have to recompile. Unless the fact that it will have a different hash than what you compiled it to would require a recompile anyways... I don't know.

Awesome nonetheless!

 

[nwo]

For UMK3TE, you should put the game description as just that... UMK3 - Tournament Edition. That way, when more versions become public (which 33 will be out soon), you don't have to recompile. Unless the fact that it will have a different hash than what you compiled it to would require a recompile anyways... I don't know.

Awesome nonetheless!

I can do that...it is nice though not having to ask "hack?" to people you don't know when playing on Kaillera. When the next version is released I'll change the title, but yeah, it won't recognize the rom once changes are made.

 

[BustaUppa]

If you guys want an easy and good way to play this game online, I just compiled a version of Mameppk 119 today that recognizes the hacked MK roms.

The download link is in the video description, roms are not included.

I'll be keeping an eye on this; thank you. For whatever reason, MAMEhub absolutely chugs when playing MK on my dedicated MAME setup. Other games run fine, and other versions of MAME can run MK just fine. The 'hub + MK combination just seems to not want to work for me.

 

[Shock]

Yeah, but any time you can do a "run under RH", why wouldn't you just do a run under uppercut instead? It does more damage and beats everything out more consistently than the roundhouse. And my problem isn't that you can be punished by the fastest specials in the game when you hit someone with a cr.HK, it's that you're FORCED to block then being able to run in and do a knee starter and pressure. When they block the cr.HK, they can't do this. It's only when they're hit with cr.HK. I wish the hacker could do something like maybe add more hitstun to the cr.HK kind of like he did for the cr.LP so it'd match the same frame data for when the opponent blocks a cr.HK.

Run under RH is a faster scenario/pacing option, you can rush in immediately after contact with no delay unlike an uppercut.

So roundhouses should remain useless for some characters because they have other anti airs? Then WHY do male ninjas have good anti air uppercuts, HKs, round houses, etc.?

This is not balance. This is favoritism and it's incredibly lame.

It can't be favoritism when the hit boxes are generally based on the animation speed and position. We can't change the collision box of the character being hit, so that's a limit we have to deal with. This leaves us with only being able to compensate on the hot collisions, which if all adjusted to be better, starts to ruin some of the visual aspect of timing. If John Turk just has physically good mechanics and all his moves wound up being useful, that's inherent to the game's design in an indirect way. If you start messing with shit like, making Sheeva's RH as fast as most everyone else's, or better, everyone's as fast as Sonya's, it is a change that is perhaps, not necessary just to give her something that matches up with everyone else. Sheeva's aaRH is meant for long distance jumps generally, female ninjas as stated, good for run under. With the right timing though, RH's can be used for anti air with everyone, it depends when the other person attacks. There are plenty of RHs in the game that don't feel super great for anti air, but if every single RH had the same hot collision at the very least, the game would feel watered down in that respect. We could do the same for every normal. So, yes, in a sense if other characters have better anti airs from specials, they should use those, as that's part of their package, and if a character has a bunch of good normals, that's a strength to that character. Maybe they shouldn't be as powerful in other respects. I just don't want to see too much normalization. Damage I can understand for normals, and in some cases throws and projectiles, but that stuff has been tweaked here and there. MKII and MK1 are better examples because of the random, minuscule differences that almost seem like accidents, some RHs are 1 pixel more than others? Weird.

 

[mkholic]

Run under RH is a faster scenario/pacing option, you can rush in immediately after contact with no delay unlike an uppercut.


It can't be favoritism when the hit boxes are generally based on the animation speed and position. We can't change the collision box of the character being hit, so that's a limit we have to deal with. This leaves us with only being able to compensate on the hot collisions, which if all adjusted to be better, starts to ruin some of the visual aspect of timing. If John Turk just has physically good mechanics and all his moves wound up being useful, that's inherent to the game's design in an indirect way. If you start messing with shit like, making Sheeva's RH as fast as most everyone else's, or better, everyone's as fast as Sonya's, it is a change that is perhaps, not necessary just to give her something that matches up with everyone else. Sheeva's aaRH is meant for long distance jumps generally, female ninjas as stated, good for run under. With the right timing though, RH's can be used for anti air with everyone, it depends when the other person attacks. There are plenty of RHs in the game that don't feel super great for anti air, but if every single RH had the same hot collision at the very least, the game would feel watered down in that respect. We could do the same for every normal. So, yes, in a sense if other characters have better anti airs from specials, they should use those, as that's part of their package, and if a character has a bunch of good normals, that's a strength to that character. Maybe they shouldn't be as powerful in other respects. I just don't want to see too much normalization. Damage I can understand for normals, and in some cases throws and projectiles, but that stuff has been tweaked here and there. MKII and MK1 are better examples because of the random, minuscule differences that almost seem like accidents, some RHs are 1 pixel more than others? Weird.

that doesn't explain why some chars're doomed to have normals u wish to not use at all, in most instances u can consider whole set of char's moves and come up with a forced explanation of why things are the way they are, in few tho there is just no room for interpretations, the perfect example being kabal's elbow
it isn't mid anymore but is delayed still, "why would anyone start a combo with elbow?" u may ask, well, b/c u're most likely to be punished when the last hit of blocked bigger combo whiffs, one bs is connected with the other
i hate repeating myself but i really don't wanna these things to be overlooked

 

[dubson]

that doesn't explain why some chars're doomed to have normals u wish to not use at all, in most instances u can consider whole set of char's moves and come up with a forced explanation of why things are the way they are, in few tho there is just no room for interpretations, the perfect example being kabal's elbow
it isn't mid anymore but is delayed still, "why would anyone start a combo with elbow?" u may ask, well, b/c u're most likely to be punished when the last hit of blocked bigger combo whiffs, one bs is connected with the other
i hate repeating myself but i really don't wanna these things to be overlooked

I don't think anyone is going to ask "why would anyone start a combo with elbow" IF it hits mid.... Yes, it is less functional (hitting High)... but I believe it was necessary, don't you? You can still have the same combo connect Mid, just out of Knee...

There are still times where its optimal to do his 3 hit pop-up over his 5 hit starting out of knee, for example if your near the corner it can lead to push back bc it pushes them too far into the corner.

Now he will be be better inclined to go for it out of a jump starter, knee starter or block-punish opposed to naked.

This tapers down his offense AND his corner damage potential.

He had two pathways to Good damage out of Mid. I honestly think that alone was too much, especially for a character designed like him. He still has his Knee starter... why does he need/deserve both? I think it was too much personally from an offensive/mix-up perspective. He obviously needed to be nerfed. Some characters can Barely get Decent damage out of Mid. Why does Kabal need/deserve so many options at this point?

and yes it did explain why some characters are "doomed" to have "bad normals". First of all "bad normals", lets be honest your basically referring to only Round Houses, as that is the complaint 90% of the time anytime people refer to "bad normals". Second, they are compensated elsewhere. Noone has "bad normals", thats too generalized. Someone may have a bad something, but nothing is unusable, and they have been compensated elsewhere. Some (most) with special moves, in regards to Anti-Air and there are plenty of Anti-Air options in this game and every character has some form of viable options for Anti-Air. Third, Round House is only One of multiple options with Anti-Air out of Normals, including but not limited to Standing HK, Standing aaHP, Uppercut. I think its fair to say that Round House is actually usually the least functional out of the above options 90% of the time anyway and the one least used in high level play (outside of Liu Kang).

Fourth, Do you know how bad Street Fighter or any game would be if everyones Roundhouse were equally good? Sweeps? Everything? It would be retarded. No game exists like this and noone has an unusable move. They actually did a very good job in this part of the game. Be it on accident or on purpose.

 

[dubson]

It can't be favoritism when the hit boxes are generally based on the animation speed and position. We can't change the collision box of the character being hit, so that's a limit we have to deal with. This leaves us with only being able to compensate on the hot collisions, which if all adjusted to be better, starts to ruin some of the visual aspect of timing. If John Turk just has physically good mechanics and all his moves wound up being useful, that's inherent to the game's design in an indirect way. If you start messing with shit like, making Sheeva's RH as fast as most everyone else's, or better, everyone's as fast as Sonya's, it is a change that is perhaps, not necessary just to give her something that matches up with everyone else. Sheeva's aaRH is meant for long distance jumps generally, female ninjas as stated, good for run under. With the right timing though, RH's can be used for anti air with everyone, it depends when the other person attacks. There are plenty of RHs in the game that don't feel super great for anti air, but if every single RH had the same hot collision at the very least, the game would feel watered down in that respect. We could do the same for every normal. So, yes, in a sense if other characters have better anti airs from specials, they should use those, as that's part of their package, and if a character has a bunch of good normals, that's a strength to that character. Maybe they shouldn't be as powerful in other respects. I just don't want to see too much normalization. Damage I can understand for normals, and in some cases throws and projectiles, but that stuff has been tweaked here and there. MKII and MK1 are better examples because of the random, minuscule differences that almost seem like accidents, some RHs are 1 pixel more than others? Weird.

This post says everything I have been trying to say perfectly... How can anyone not understand after reading this post?

 

[REO]

Your point in regards to running under the opponent and opting for uppercut being superior to a RH is a strong point. It may come down to where you want to space them (further away from you with a RH) and it may come down to whether Your characters RH or Uppercut being better at that given point in time, since each character has better RH/uppecut/playstyle/etc. So it isn't so easy to say that any characters uppercut is automatically superior to RH when running under cross up jump attacks. It may also come down to the opponents hitbox. It may also come down to the opponents JK/JP animation. At the end of the day, it just all comes down to all of the tools available for the character and balancing.

For example, Kano's uppercut is very poor (ESPECIALLY in your situation of running under cross-ups but is just very bad in general). I would much rather go for run under RH with him than run under uppercut, even though his round house is horrible as a "straight up" anti-air (horrible all around). This isn't necessarily a position I want to find myself in... and I would much rather opt for his Air Throw or Vertical Cannonball. Point in case, both of those scenarios (run under uppercut/RH) suck for him.

So your saying since its optimal to do an uppercut in a running under cross-up scenario (for most characters/situations and that is true), that the RH should be blindly buffed to be a "straight-up"anti air for any character who has a weak one. (in that scenario). Just to make every character have a viable "straight up" anti-air RH. Well again the round house isn't strictly designed to be an anti-air. Technically, noone has a useless RH. Also it again comes down to the character. Sonya was used, for example. Her roundhouse is horrible in the context your referring to. But she is compensated by having two moves whose direct purpose is anti-air. She has a good uppercut as well and good standing HK for anti-air. If she had an excellent roundhouse, it would be too much you see? Just too much. She cant have every available option at every given point in time. This is part of the give and take and it must be fair for all characters and match-ups.

Every character has good anti-air options and the round house has more than one purpose/scenario. They just have different strengths/weaknesses as far as anti-airs go, and when which one is more/less viable in what scenario, and which better against certain characters. A lot goes into it... I promise you they probably have already thought very hard about giving certain characters a top tier round house but they never got it. Look at all the revisions this game went through. From MK3 to UMK3, through multiple revisions for each game, yet, female ninjas Round House (for example) looks and acts exactly the same. Why wouldn't they of changed it themselves? Certainly it could not have been that hard for them? I'm just thinking this was explored, and they came to fair/balanced decisions. At least to a shallow degree.

Nobody is saying RH needs to be buffed to be the only go-to anti air that is better than every other anti air 100% of the time. And how is giving some characters the option to anti-air with a roundhouse at a specific distance "too much"? If a female ninja, Sonya, Stryker, etc. etc. could make reads on an opponent jumping in from a distance and anti air with their roundhouse they would NOT all of a sudden be overpowered. This line of thinking is ridiculous and too over dramatic. How does that make sense? Male ninja teleporters take over half your life for a roundhouse. These newer characters giving the option to aa with their RH wouldn't. Female ninjas aren't going to sky rocket up the tier if they can use their roundhouses as traditional formal anti airs. And there are plenty of characters currently that have literally seven different ways to anti air that are NOT overpowered. Look at Scorpion, he can anti air with aaHP, aaHK, aa cr.HK, aaRH, aaSpear, aa Uppercut, aa Air Throw, aa Teleport on jump backs, come on dude... This silly notion of "if a character has too many options to anti-air, they will be OP" needs to go.

And anti airing roundhouse will NEVER be as good as anti-airing with specials or HKs. They are the slowest anti-airs (right after cr.HKs) and require heavy reading and planning to set one up. You can't just out of the blue be doing your thing and then all of a sudden the opponent jumps and smack them out of the air with a RH every single time. No. They're too slow for that. And you need to be walking back at a specific distance to properly set one up.

Run under RH is a faster scenario/pacing option, you can rush in immediately after contact with no delay unlike an uppercut.


It can't be favoritism when the hit boxes are generally based on the animation speed and position. We can't change the collision box of the character being hit, so that's a limit we have to deal with. This leaves us with only being able to compensate on the hot collisions, which if all adjusted to be better, starts to ruin some of the visual aspect of timing. If John Turk just has physically good mechanics and all his moves wound up being useful, that's inherent to the game's design in an indirect way. If you start messing with shit like, making Sheeva's RH as fast as most everyone else's, or better, everyone's as fast as Sonya's, it is a change that is perhaps, not necessary just to give her something that matches up with everyone else. Sheeva's aaRH is meant for long distance jumps generally, female ninjas as stated, good for run under. With the right timing though, RH's can be used for anti air with everyone, it depends when the other person attacks. There are plenty of RHs in the game that don't feel super great for anti air, but if every single RH had the same hot collision at the very least, the game would feel watered down in that respect. We could do the same for every normal. So, yes, in a sense if other characters have better anti airs from specials, they should use those, as that's part of their package, and if a character has a bunch of good normals, that's a strength to that character. Maybe they shouldn't be as powerful in other respects. I just don't want to see too much normalization. Damage I can understand for normals, and in some cases throws and projectiles, but that stuff has been tweaked here and there. MKII and MK1 are better examples because of the random, minuscule differences that almost seem like accidents, some RHs are 1 pixel more than others? Weird.

But nobody is saying to make roundhouses faster or slower than other characters. Just to increase their square hitbox slightly so they can be used as a proper anti-air and not the "run under anti air" you see probably happen once every few games which is more rare and less plausible than anti-airing with a cr.HK currently in realistic game. Some roundhouses are SO bad I would never use them over moves like Sheeva's HK or female ninjas uppercuts or aaHPs. Yes, that's right. I rather go for a aaHP (one of the most strict anti-airs) then try to aa with some characters roundhouses. Because the viability is that severe.

I swear, for certain characters the roundhouse exists JUST so you get them by an accident when you're trying to aa with a HK in clutch situation when you're walking back and it accidentally comes out and you get eaten by a full jump-in combo.

 

[DWednesday]

Robo-RHs = Best in the game