Match-up Discussion Official Deathstroke Match-up Chart v3

[16 Bit]

DS jumping back is SUPER annoying for KF. She can't trip guard an empty jump. She has to commit to a risk like daggers or early slide and early slide is very easy for him to blow up with jump back 3. It's a big problem I was never able to really solve when I used to play this MU.

 

[xKhaoTik]

You were about to say frost wins because of lol slide & vortex.

No i wasn't but okay

 

[xKhaoTik]

DS jumping back is SUPER annoying for KF. She can't trip guard an empty jump. She has to commit to a risk like daggers or early slide and early slide is very easy for him to blow up with jump back 3. It's a big problem I was never able to really solve when I used to play this MU.

That does sounds annoying lol. The DS players online don't do any of this tho lol.

I do know that d1spin after a blocked slide is hella annoying. D2ing his j3 is hard as Well which makes us have to use meter to AA him.

 

[M2Dave]

why you do this to yourself?
You should stop arguing with people that actually play and place with DS.
You shouldn't talk unless your are talking about zod's matchups, you are blind.
Can't you see how good deathstroke is?
What you do is the equivalent of me arguing with ducky and glass sword raven's MUs even though am not doing shit with the character.

So Deathstroke only has three bad match ups and is therefore top 5.

Are you Deathstroke players stupid?

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

Hi mayo <3 I beat Silent Hill 2!

Aw! Get with me on skype! Let's talk about it.

 

[KingHippo]

So Deathstroke only has three bad match ups and is therefore top 5.

Are you Deathstroke players stupid?

Nobody is saying that. This is a Mu chart very similar to WW, another char hailed as "complete". When you're a complete character you simply have the tools to fight off a good deal of the dumb shit, plain and simple. Nobody disagrees that the top cats are really good and have enormously cheap things about them, and in comparison DS cheaper stuff isn't up to par, but being able to fight against it all while not greeting outright destroyed is a huge factor that I would argue only WW could match in comparison, as well as Batman and Superman.

A real top 5 char for this game would have a nice bit of 3-7s, and maybe one or two losing matchups. Pig is one of the only players who keeps it real about his character and has a legit top 5 mu chart. This is exactly what you always describe as "solid", someone who fights a majority of the cast but loses out against some chars. AKA a top ten character, which I've made clear.

The real part that grinds my gears is that you come in here while having only played a very rudimentary version of the character that gets blown up in certain matchups and then cry foul about how average he is. The fact is you are unevolved, while the rest of the DS players have been evolving and changing the way DS plays and we can see the writing on the wall. This character is great, and it is an insane boon to his viability that his toolset is so varied.

So please, for all of our sakes, take your ball and chain and run on back to the Phantom Zone where you belong and leave us to keep pushing the character. We are DONE with having to bow to outdated "authorities" on matchups and tech when you have accomplished absolutely nothing with he character and never will.

Good luck on all your future endeavors and I look forward to the next lbsh podcast, but would you kindly get the fuck outta here unless Zod is being discussed.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

Cyborg gets outzoned by faster and more damaging shots, also his linear wake-ups are a treat for DSs who know how to abuse it.

Quinn I'm not sure of, but I'd assume it's due to his better ranged options where Harley can usually stop people out.

Lobo lacks a strong approach through ranged without spending a bar from half screen. Add also deathstroke has multiple fast-multiple hitting specials that can stop that movement and score a bit of damage to boot.

Shazam has the same problem as loon but what he makes up for in approach he loses due to his lack of natural armor which is key to beating DS.

Grundy is a huge target that takes a long time to get where he needs to go. MB quick shot makes short work of WC and generally DS has a lot of naturally air-born moves which are grab immune and have decent speed to boot which throws a big cog in his plays. Add also DS's jump is one of the best in the game and you have a character who really makes it hard for Grundy to get a good offense rolling. It's not impossible by any means, but it's definitely not easy when your main pressure tools aren't nearly as effective. That being said Grundy can chip trait and sit on a lifelead, but DS's j.3 is insanely hard to AA consistently with Grundy's sluggish d.2.


This is what I gather at least

Deathstroke does not outzone Cyborg and definitely not outdamage him. IIRC, Nova Blasts do 8% and QuickFire does 6%. Nova Blasts recover faster than QF as well and has better hit and block advantage. So even if you spend the match trading projectiles, Cyborg will win.

Shazam's dash lets him get in really easily. And his wake-up options rid of DS's deadly oki game.

For Grundy, WC has 3 hits of armor, Quick Fire hits twice unless MB'd. If Grundy's Health Trait is activated, QF and LGS hold no threat unless he is trying to jump or do MB Swamp Hands.

 

[NoobHunter420]

So Deathstroke only has three bad match ups and is therefore top 5.

Are you Deathstroke players stupid?

am not a DS player...
I give DS players the benefit of the doubt, they are the ones grinding out the matchups, not me.
The game is still evolving, nothing is set in stone.
If they think DS has that many winning matchups is because they see something in their character, time will tell whether they are right or wrong.

 

[Deleted member 5032]

One of my regular fighting buddies (@The Slaj Jazz) has Cyborg's IAFB's pretty damn consistent, and I tell you that is not an easy battle for DS, especially if Cyborg gets the life lead. It might be 5/5 but I wouldn't correct anyone who called it 6/4 in Cyborg's favor.

 

[TH3DISTURBED1]

The biggest advantages I can see to Deathstroke in a lot of matches is the fact that he's comfortable at lot of distances and the fact that his F3 is such a HUGE wall.

As much as it pains me to admit, M2Dave is a pretty good fighting game player BUT he suffers from what I suffer from: I must be shown what makes a character good. I'm terrible at seeing this myself.

What makes Deathstroke good is being able to fight at most distances, decent 50/50's, decent zoning, a good J3, 30%+ meterless, and the fact that it is VERY difficult to jump on him. I was watching KingHippo play and Deathstroke's D2 seems amazing. Sword Flip makes jumping seem stupid.

I do find it hard to believe Deathstroke has only a few bad matchups, but in a game like this, most of the characters are so close. Deathstroke has to play honest compared to other characters and that drops him IMO. His dirt is not nearly as stupid as other characters and that's what holds him back.

 

[Doombawkz]

Deathstroke does not outzone Cyborg and definitely not outdamage him. IIRC, Nova Blasts do 8% and QuickFire does 6%. Nova Blasts recover faster than QF as well and has better hit and block advantage. So even if you spend the match trading projectiles, Cyborg will win.

Shazam's dash lets him get in really easily. And his wake-up options rid of DS's deadly oki game.

For Grundy, WC has 3 hits of armor, Quick Fire hits twice unless MB'd. If Grundy's Health Trait is activated, QF and LGS hold no threat unless he is trying to jump or do MB Swamp Hands.

While true the damage and recovery is better, it also has a decent amount of start-up. Also if he tries to catch some iafb he is going to find himself taking a clip. Doesn't MB QF do like 16%? Has more utility than MB nova and it's not like there's a shortage of meter.

You'd be surprised. Even Bane doesn't have an easy way in against a Ds who knows what he is doing and his dash game is better than shazams. Also while he may not have to deal with oki (which it's not the oki he has to worry about so much as the continued pressure) he also can't shut down DS's wake up game so it'll come down to how well he deals in the neutral, and DS has him beat there.

Assault rifle. Also if he wants to MB gunshots you eat it, and if not he shoots and has time to book it away.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

While true the damage and recovery is better, it also has a decent amount of start-up. Also if he tries to catch some iafb he is going to find himself taking a clip. Doesn't MB QF do like 16%? Has more utility than MB nova and it's not like there's a shortage of meter.

You'd be surprised. Even Bane doesn't have an easy way in against a Ds who knows what he is doing and his dash game is better than shazams. Also while he may not have to deal with oki (which it's not the oki he has to worry about so much as the continued pressure) he also can't shut down DS's wake up game so it'll come down to how well he deals in the neutral, and DS has him beat there.

Assault rifle. Also if he wants to MB gunshots you eat it, and if not he shoots and has time to book it away.

You're not going to be reacting to iAFB anytime soon. And you can't herp derp QF and QF MB looking to catch an iAFB. QuickFire MB doing 16% doesn't matter because it will never fully come out as you get interrupted by a Nova Blast.

I have no say about Bane because I don't know anything about the MU. But knowing how good his dash is, I don't see why you say he would have trouble getting in when QuickFire and LowGS are both negative on hit and block.

Assault Rifle gets raped by MB Swamp Hands. QuickFire MB is the only option Grundy has to respect but even so, you have to do it on read because if it whiffs or gets blocked, he's in.

Why are you arguing as if DS is supposed to keep these characters away? He can't do that.

 

[Relaxedstate]

One of my regular fighting buddies (@The Slaj Jazz) has Cyborg's IAFB's pretty damn consistent, and I tell you that is not an easy battle for DS, especially if Cyborg gets the life lead. It might be 5/5 but I wouldn't correct anyone who called it 6/4 in Cyborg's favor.

Would you correct me if I said DS wins 6-4

I am actually near certain that at the highest level played DS has a slight advantage. The zoning war is pretty even, but cyborg gets 2% per trade. However DS shuts down iafb. You should be doing low gunshots a lot to check him. This MU is all about groundfireballs and MB air fb (which cyborg is very meter dependent upon.) (Also remember that Cyborg is airborne for his iafb, so you are at a disticnt advantage if you trade since you get a knockdown)

Cyborg will never be able to get out missiles against DS, and if you get the life lead then you can very easily zone him out since you shut down grapple completely. Even if you are losing the zoning game, you can still get in much easier than most characters. DS has a much better comeback potential than cyborg does in this MU.

His neutral game, and footsies are superior on too many levels to discuss here. Also DS probably has the best mid-screen to wall carry combos potential. Also, lets not forget his option select wakeup game that eliminates cyborgs (rare) corner vortex!

Try playing it very reactionary . I admit Cyborgs zoning can be very troublesome, (especially when he has the life lead). But if you play patient and reactionary you will be fine with some practice.

 

[Doombawkz]

You're not going to be reacting to iAFB anytime soon. And you can't herp derp QF and QF MB looking to catch an iAFB. QuickFire MB doing 16% doesn't matter because it will never fully come out as you get interrupted by a Nova Blast.

I have no say about Bane because I don't know anything about the MU. But knowing how good his dash is, I don't see why you say he would have trouble getting in when QuickFire and LowGS are both negative on hit and block.

Assault Rifle gets raped by MB Swamp Hands. QuickFire MB is the only option Grundy has to respect but even so, you have to do it on read because if it whiffs or gets blocked, he's in.

Why are you arguing as if DS is supposed to keep these characters away? He can't do that.

The moment your feet leave the ground he has no reason not to shoot you. Reacting to iafb isn't that hard for me, considering I have to get it on my own character. Also he won't get all the shots off but he will get most of them. And it's not like he doesn't have the better deal when he gets in, something I brought to point in the wake-up example.

Trust me, not as easy as it sounds. Especially for shazam because his dashes are a bit laggier and doesn't have the armor once he does get in to get things started.

The moment you start lunking towards him with WC he gets the free guns. From a distance he doesn't need to do assault rifle, it's just good at blowing through wc. He can peg through and get meter, and once Grundy gets in he still doesn't have an easy time since DS can just pressure him and avoid the brunt of what makes him good: his grabs and armor.

He doesn't have to keep them away. No one keeps someone out forever, it's just a matter of he doesn't just beat them from a distance, he has them locked up close too

 

[KingHippo]

I think one of the key aspects we're missing here is that if a character like a Shazam or Bane is trying to dash in and start offense, they better be doing it out of d2 range. I think the game has evolved to,the point where dashing in without padding is getting reserved only for characters who can earn some respect at the midrange. Shazam doesn't have that, just the option of torpedo or back 2 and Herculean might to an extent. The problem here is that down 2 will stuff back 2 and avoid the grab, as well as check his dashing in. The only other option is a midrange torpedo, which is reachable and punishable on block with a flip,which puts him again into full screen range where he doesn't want to be. It is this midrange respect that DS can force which makes me think so highly if him.

Bane can pad with armor, and his oki is unbearable at times. Nevertheless, I believe DS's ability to shit down post punch mashing and superior full screen options keep him in the fight.

 

[ETC AdmiralAugustus]

....but DS's j.3 is insanely hard to AA consistently with Grundy's sluggish d.2.

While I don't disagree about the advantage DS has at range, I just wanted to chime in and say you should be using AA grab with Grundy in this matchup, not D2. AA grab beats J.3 outright. The sword can be mid swing and Grundy grabs him. That is all :3

 

[Doombawkz]

While I don't disagree about the advantage DS has at range, I just wanted to chime in and say you should be using AA grab with Grundy in this matchup, not D2. AA grab beats J.3 outright. The sword can be mid swing and Grundy grabs him. That is all :3

I dunno, personally banes doesn't work on it but maybe Grundy has it better, I just tend to avoid that mess

 

[juicepouch]

One of my regular fighting buddies (@The Slaj Jazz) has Cyborg's IAFB's pretty damn consistent, and I tell you that is not an easy battle for DS, especially if Cyborg gets the life lead. It might be 5/5 but I wouldn't correct anyone who called it 6/4 in Cyborg's favor.

Slaj is fucking awesome lol. That guy's cyborg gave me nightmares

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

The moment your feet leave the ground he has no reason not to shoot you. Reacting to iafb isn't that hard for me, considering I have to get it on my own character. Also he won't get all the shots off but he will get most of them. And it's not like he doesn't have the better deal when he gets in, something I brought to point in the wake-up example.

Trust me, not as easy as it sounds. Especially for shazam because his dashes are a bit laggier and doesn't have the armor once he does get in to get things started.

The moment you start lunking towards him with WC he gets the free guns. From a distance he doesn't need to do assault rifle, it's just good at blowing through wc. He can peg through and get meter, and once Grundy gets in he still doesn't have an easy time since DS can just pressure him and avoid the brunt of what makes him good: his grabs and armor.

He doesn't have to keep them away. No one keeps someone out forever, it's just a matter of he doesn't just beat them from a distance, he has them locked up close too

"The moment his feet leaves the ground" could also mean a grapple, which is armored, and could very well catch DS off-guard.

I don't understand your Assault Rifle argument, why would DS ever use Assault Rifle up-close? Sure, it has 5-hits but what good is that if it gets blown up on every other situation other than a lucky read. And DS does NOT out-pressure Grundy. Grundy's D2 rapes F3 and out-ranges F23, which are his main pressure tools. Air grab keeps DS grounded. Grundy's mix-up game is stronger than DS's in the neutral game. DS has B1 , D1 and B2 until Grundy is conditioned. Let's also not forget that Grundy simply just out-damages DS. DS gets 30% off of B1 and F3, 20% on D1 and B2. Grundy gets 40%+ on anything.

 

[Doombawkz]

"The moment his feet leaves the ground" could also mean a grapple, which is armored, and could very well catch DS off-guard.

I don't understand your Assault Rifle argument, why would DS ever use Assault Rifle up-close? Sure, it has 5-hits but what good is that if it gets blown up on every other situation other than a lucky read. And DS does NOT out-pressure Grundy. Grundy's D2 rapes F3 and out-ranges F23, which are his main pressure tools. Air grab keeps DS grounded. Grundy's mix-up game is stronger than DS's in the neutral game. DS has B1 , D1 and B2 until Grundy is conditioned. Let's also not forget that Grundy simply just out-damages DS. DS gets 30% off of B1 and F3, 20% on D1 and B2. Grundy gets 40%+ on anything.

You grapple and then what? You eat damage and gain nothing. Catching him off guard doesn't mean he won't AA or punish you.

Assault rifle vs wc, and that doesn't need a read. Also as far as pressuring Grundy, what does he have that stops DS from clubbing him with a slew of 6 and 7 and 8 frame grab immune armor breaking moves? You have a Laggy d.2 and that's honestly it. Damage doesn't matter, if it did Bane wouldn't lose to a lot of people. What matters is if he can consistently get it.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

You grapple and then what? You eat damage and gain nothing. Catching him off guard doesn't mean he won't AA or punish you.

Assault rifle vs wc, and that doesn't need a read. Also as far as pressuring Grundy, what does he have that stops DS from clubbing him with a slew of 6 and 7 and 8 frame grab immune armor breaking moves? You have a Laggy d.2 and that's honestly it. Damage doesn't matter, if it did Bane wouldn't lose to a lot of people. What matters is if he can consistently get it.

After grapple, Cyborg can either continue his zoning or get in on DS and start his close-up game.

His D2 is fast and has high priority. Enough to stuff F3, deep J3 and dash-ins. And that leads to lesser chances of landing big damage. Honestly, they both have low chances to land damage to each other, but as I said, Grundy gets a bigger reward.

 

[KingHippo]

My god, I thought the MU cops were dead. Doombawkz going in.

 

[Doombawkz]

After grapple, Cyborg can either continue his zoning or get in on DS and start his close-up game.

His D2 is fast and has high priority. Enough to stuff F3, deep J3 and dash-ins. And that leads to lesser chances of landing big damage. Honestly, they both have low chances to land damage to each other, but as I said, Grundy gets a bigger reward.

If you aren't shot out of the air, you aren't doing much to a guy who d.2s the best air attacks in the game. And continue your zoning? As long as he doesn't punish you for trying to grapple then maybe but grapple is his "catch DS off guard".

Is it fast enough to stop b.1 and the like? Also you d.2ing his moves is questionable at that because of its slower speeds. Grundy may have a bigger reward, but DS has it more consistently and from more options and positions.

My god, I thought the MU cops were dead. Doombawkz going in.

Talk about other characters and no one bats an eye, but mention Bane once and the whole world loses it

 

[Fred Marvel]

while most of the GL forums will insists he goes even DS wins that Matchup. its close but DS wins

 

[KingHippo]

Talk about other characters and no one bats an eye, but mention Bane once and the whole world loses it

Oh I'm losing it slowly trust me. This is pre '14 THTB levels right now