Obama Vs. Romney

[Hemlock]

So, I started this thread, and I think that (much like other "hot topic" threads) it's important that we have a place where we can discuss our views and share ideas in a (fingers crossed) civil and respectful manner. I know some people are rolling their eyes at this, but it's in the "off-topic" thread for a reason. If people want to discuss things and debate - I think we'd all learn a lot from it. If someone wants to just argue a point and "win" - that's probably less productive. Not everyone will agree or be able to be convinced.

So, to everyone who has been respectful and honest in sharing their opinion - thank you so very much!

The reason I started this thread is because I myself, am undecided, and am withholding my decision until I have heard the speeches at the conventions, and heard the debates that will be happening in October. I'm usually pretty prejudiced, but this year I'm trying hard to take in both sides equally and without bias. So since TYM is my new online community, I wanted to field some responses and get some different perspectives. Thanks.

 

[Grolarbears]

Hence me saying "Among other things, other than age". there should be basic knowledge tests. If you dont know the bill of rights, the 50 states, or other basic United States knowledge, you really shouldnt be allowed to vote. LBSH, how many people would be weeded out if they started implementing tests in order to vote. I am all for it as some people really should not be allowed to vote lol.

I'm not really posting in the rest of the thread, but I just wanted to make a point about this. I disagree with this idea about testing. I personally think testing on US knowledge is pretty irrelevant in regards to one's ability to vote. All this system would do is discriminate against the uneducated and the non-English speaking people of America, imo, which even though they are in those categories, they are still American. And I can see the argument that "Well, if someone's uneducated, why would we want them voting?" That doesn't matter. They are members of this country and have the right to vote as they will, no matter their ignorance or stupidity. It is no better than voting laws against African Americans. Everyone has the right to vote. Not everyone has had the same opportunities. If there is a great majority of stupidity in this country to the point that presidential elections are decided by said group, then the majority wins and that is democracy.


But to be fair, the electoral college will take care of it all anyway. So, don't worry about the uneducated. The Bureaucrats are much worse, imo.

 

[Critical-Limit]

I'm voting for Gary johnson don't care if you tell me its a wasted vote. He's the only one worth a damn.

Romney is 100% for the rich, hates woman's rights, gay rights, wants to transfer wealth from middle class to wealthy.

Obama, gave himself doctoral powers with NDAA, re-instated the patriot act, hes 100% for the banks. He Also has a kill list. Which one was a 16 year old American citizen. Signature strikes that kill innocent women and children, that create more terrorist.


Neither get my vote. God speed Gary Johnson.

 

[DanCock]

Obama !! I even have my bumper sticker donated a bit as well.


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[rev0lver]

I'm not really posting in the rest of the thread, but I just wanted to make a point about this. I disagree with this idea about testing. I personally think testing on US knowledge is pretty irrelevant in regards to one's ability to vote. All this system would do is discriminate against the uneducated and the non-English speaking people of America, imo, which even though they are in those categories, they are still American. And I can see the argument that "Well, if someone's uneducated, why would we want them voting?" That doesn't matter. They are members of this country and have the right to vote as they will, no matter their ignorance or stupidity. It is no better than voting laws against African Americans. Everyone has the right to vote. Not everyone has had the same opportunities. If there is a great majority of stupidity in this country to the point that presidential elections are decided by said group, then the majority wins and that is democracy.

I completely agree. I also don't like one of the systems we have in place now, which is the disenfranchisement of certain convicts. Many of these may actually be very intelligent too. If you went through the system and did your fair time, you shouldn't still lose rights.

Obama, gave himself doctoral powers with NDAA, re-instated the patriot act, hes 100% for the banks. He Also has a kill list. Which one was a 16 year old American citizen. Signature strikes that kill innocent women and children, that create more terrorist.
.

IMO these are all distractions, for two reasons. First of all, I find it unlikely that Obama would do anything worse than a Republican as far as national security goes. Just imagine if we had put McCain in 4 years ago. The "kill list" doesn't concern us nearly as much as we think it does. People bring up slippery-slope arguments with this into play when they're not based in reality. The 16 year-old thing was very unfortunate, but he was collateral damage and not the target of the attack. Secondly, we have no idea what national security issues the government is facing at any given time. We may have, and may have had, dire situations requiring this type of overreach that the American public has no clue about. If someone like Johnson actually did get elected, for all we know he might go "oh shit.... I kinda might need this or people are going to die".

 

[Critical-Limit]

You are wrong the 16 year old WAS the target.

You don't know your facts.

 

[rev0lver]

You are wrong the 16 year old WAS the target.

You don't know your facts.

Why? Because the conspiracy theorists said so?

 

[Critical-Limit]

Obama supporters Watch these 3 videos and tell me... how great he is.

I'm not bashing you. Just informing.

Both Romney and Obama are incredibly evil.

Defense contractors/banks/corporations own our politicians. And all of them benefit from a debt based system/bail outs/ and many of them benefit from war. So they are gonna spew war propaganda, to scare you in yout boots.

Did you know you have a better chance of being struck by lightning than being killed by a terrorist? That's counting all army men lost/ people lost in 9/11, every terrorist attack.

Here are 3 videos to make you hate both candidates:

Obama:

INNOCENT PEOPLE. we are committing a 9/11 like attacks on countries in the middle east. just like they did to us on 9/11. PERPETUAL bloodshed.

For every child/woman/innocent man you killed. You don't think those family members won't be pissed at us? Just imagine yourself in their shoes?

people want to kill us because of our involvement over there. The more we meddle the wars will never end. Pre-emptive war is INVASION. That's like saying I better punch that scary looking guy over there before he punches me. Is that how we should treat out foreing policy?



ANTI-ROMNEY vids: Just so you know republicans are worse.

Just type "theyoungturks Romney" in a youtube search.

enjoy the hundreds of romney bashing videos. There's literally too many for me to post individually. Look up paul ryan too. What a douche. Every single thing he voted YES for. directly added to our defeceit. My ass he's the budget guy. He created out defeceit with all of his votes.

 

[DanCock]

The only way we'll ever have more then 2 power parties is by changing stuff city by city, state by state. Trying to vote for 3rd parties in national elections will never fix the problem this country has. But locally then state wide voting for other parties will then spread nationally.

I think we now have a few green party mayors. The green party is a legit "other" party to vote for. The tea party are really just right wing republicans.


So when I vote this year - all local and state "other" parties that are more liberal will get my vote and all national votes will go towards the democrats. Lesser of two evils.


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[Reedoms]

there should be basic knowledge tests. If you dont know the bill of rights, the 50 states, or other basic United States knowledge, you really shouldnt be allowed to vote.

Didn't we have those before. I think they were called the Jim Crow Laws.

 

[AK Vip3r]

Didn't we have those before. I think they were called the Jim Crow Laws.

Just like there should be drug tests before getting welfare, there should be basic knowledge tests before being allowed to vote.

one of my favorite sayings:

If I gotta pass a drug test in order to keep my job and make money then people who are getting my tax money in the form of welfare should have to pass one too.

 

[rev0lver]

Just like there should be drug tests before getting welfare, there should be basic knowledge tests before being allowed to vote.

one of my favorite sayings:

If I gotta pass a drug test in order to keep my job and make money then people who are getting my tax money in the form of welfare should have to pass one too.

I absolutely disagree with this. First of all, when they implemented this in Florida they LOST $45,000 in just a few months. Secondly, this is based on the assumption that welfare recipients who use drugs can just quit and they will be fine. Addiction is a serious problem that must be addressed before we even think about doing this. They aren't drug addicts just because they want to be drug addicts. Also, it ignores the most prominent problem which is alcoholism.

 

[LesMore]

Its better than just going off of someones "word".

"Its okay to be ignorant to something, because we all are at times, but refusing to better yourself in things you don't understand makes you stupid." -My Senior Lit teacher. He had a doctorate in Lit btw.

You read James Joyce yet, or Thomas Pynchon?

 

[aldazo]

For every child/woman/innocent man you killed. You don't think those family members won't be pissed at us? Just imagine yourself in their shoes?

I would replace the "you" word with "some soldiers or agents from the US Army that sadly follow atrocius orders from ...¿?"

people want to kill us because of our involvement over there. The more we meddle the wars will never end.

I don't think they want to kill u.s. citizens, but definitly don't like the military intervention to the point of sacrifice themselves.

Pre-emptive war is INVASION. That's like saying I better punch that scary looking guy over there before he punches me. Is that how we should treat out foreing policy?

I completely agree with this .

 

[AK Vip3r]

I absolutely disagree with this. First of all, when they implemented this in Florida they LOST $45,000 in just a few months. Secondly, this is based on the assumption that welfare recipients who use drugs can just quit and they will be fine. Addiction is a serious problem that must be addressed before we even think about doing this. They aren't drug addicts just because they want to be drug addicts. Also, it ignores the most prominent problem which is alcoholism.

There is no hope. Maybe I should have just stayed away from this community. Dont do drugs kids, thats how an addiction is avoided.

 

[Satan1]

Obama supporters Watch these 3 videos and tell me... how great he is.

I'm not bashing you. Just informing.

Both Romney and Obama are incredibly evil.

If I was was American I would vote Obama, but ^this guy^ gets it! Presidents are just puppets in the hands of their overlords, they all cry change but in the end (when they get voted), nothing really happens. The only thing that really happens is that our world turns to shit.
We keep investing in silly wars, banks & polluting technologies, while we should invest that money into saving our dear Earth (there's a f'ing drought in the USA for fuck's sake!?). If our climate keeps raging like this then it won't take long 'till our food & energy prices will skyrocket - something that is starting to happen right now, especially in the poor countries (do not believe that the only reason the Middle East/Africa is raging against their presidents is freedom - a big reason why people rebel, is lack of food...).
I just hope that your next president will work on saving our dear Planet, 'cause that's the one and only thing that keeps us alive. Money, bombs or god (dog?) won't feed you, Earth does...

And here's another nice docu about dumbass wars and the economy around it, just watch:

 

[rev0lver]

There is no hope. Maybe I should have just stayed away from this community. Dont do drugs kids, thats how an addiction is avoided.

Yes, that's a wonderfully naive way of looking at America's drug problems.

 

[Critical-Limit]

Best way to deal with the drug problem is to legalize them. Look up Portugal

 

[THTB]

Best way to deal with the drug problem is to legalize them. Look up Portugal

A lot of Americans are backing the legalization of marijuana at the very least.

 

[Espio]

Drug legalization would be a huge step in the right direction for this country...there's too many victimless crimes and people rotting in jail with hardened criminals for consuming a substance. We'd be making money off of drug legalization and saving tax dollars on prisons, less people to feed in prisons, less overcrowding, which means less risk of dieseases and other issues arising in prison populations.


Treating drug addicts or drug users the same as violent criminal has never sat well with me...even when I was uncomfortable with the idea of legalization of drugs.

I'm not really posting in the rest of the thread, but I just wanted to make a point about this. I disagree with this idea about testing. I personally think testing on US knowledge is pretty irrelevant in regards to one's ability to vote. All this system would do is discriminate against the uneducated and the non-English speaking people of America, imo, which even though they are in those categories, they are still American. And I can see the argument that "Well, if someone's uneducated, why would we want them voting?" That doesn't matter. They are members of this country and have the right to vote as they will, no matter their ignorance or stupidity. It is no better than voting laws against African Americans. Everyone has the right to vote. Not everyone has had the same opportunities. If there is a great majority of stupidity in this country to the point that presidential elections are decided by said group, then the majority wins and that is democracy.


But to be fair, the electoral college will take care of it all anyway. So, don't worry about the uneducated. The Bureaucrats are much worse, imo.

This is so much better of a reply than I could have come up with, my goodness this is brilliant props.

 

[Critical-Limit]

A lot of Americans are backing the legalization of marijuana at the very least.

Can't remember off hand but a Poll had it at about half support that. Which is rapidly increasing, of we can atleast take that step maybe we can move on to other drugs.

Marijuana legalization would extremely help clean up prisons and save taxes so we aren't jailing non violent drug offenders.

 

[schnitzel_on_fire]

i'm not american and therefore didn't participate in the poll. but i still think ima give my 2 cents on the topic.

He [obama] looks to gain total control and create a socialist country. The Forefathers of this country would roll in their graves seeing how this country is slowing fading from its roots of true freedom into Government control.

i am no expert on american politics and i don't want to offend you or anyone else here. i do believe, nevertheless, that the abstract concept of "freedom" is more times than not simply used as a means to justify american government actions. like what happened after 9/11 (and i'm trying to choose my words careful here): of course it was a terrible tragedy, but at the same time it kicked off a war that killed god-knows-how-many people in pursuit of a terrorist group for whose actions no particular country can be held responsible. all under the headline of "freedom". with a side dish of oil. i'm not gonna get into how america brought hussein where he was before he got canned - by america - after he became a problem for, again, america. still, liberating a people whose freedom wasn't worth spit until it became america's interes is, in my book, not done in the name of freedom. freedom seems to me like the american politician's universal tool for getting anything through parliament.

wow, i quite rambled on about this, and i'm afraid i'll get a lot of hate for it, but hell.

as for your second point, i believe the forefathers of any country would start turning in their graves if they saw today's society with equal rights for women and acceptance of homosexuality. doesn't make it a bad thing. times change. for example, we have had public health care regulated in germany ages ago, and it works. everybody can afford a doctor at any time, to put it most bluntly. as long as the government doesn't pass a bill that says you relinquish your right to vote and they do whatever they want, i wager the guess that you all will be fine.

with all that being said, i don't want to seem like i'm picking on you. i simply argue the pints i quoted from an outside perspective. mind you that i completely respect your opinion and have no gripes whatsoever with the rest of your posting.

and before anyone else does it...

I think everyone hates Romney lol. Everyone is voting Obama just because Mit sucks so bad.

i like how everybody states their opinions more sophisticatedly but you are the one who hits the nail right on the head.


obama has not nearly done all he said he'd do, like shutting down guantanamo bay prison and his (in my mind) too reluctant stance on gay rights. and i don't see a savior in him, either. but still, whoever gets to be president has to cater to all those big corporations and lobbyists who finance their campaigns, and as long as that remains the case, many things just won't change. same reason obama is reluctant on the gay rights thing, i suppose; gets him more votes from those who are yet undecided, i guess. you know what they say: it's simple politics

 

[BillStickers]

1. 3-party systems fail for a few reasons, but a major one is that in a 2-party system, the majority (whether by popular vote or electoral college) always wins. in a 3-party system, there is the issue of the majority losing--that is to say, in a 36/32/32 split, 36% of the public get their way and 64% don't. That kind of discrepancy can lead to government instability and violence. People who think that they're going to find a perfect candidate that meets all of their requirements need to understand that our government was founded on compromises, and that those very compromises are what allow Americans as a united population to stand behind our President.
   
   
2. Wealthy corporations need to be taxed more, plain and simple, to keep money circulating in the US. As it stands now, US companies are free to outsource their jobs to China (which helps their economies, not ours), yet reap the benefits of Americans paying high premiums for their products. Apple (who I love), for example, is sitting pretty on $97.6 billion dollars. That money is going nowhere but in a bank or invested in other companies. By taxing rich companies more, we can at least put some of that excess to good use (education, safety, paying off our debts). Keep in mind that that $97.6 billion figure comes *after* Tim Cook (CEO) got his $60 million salary, so I hope he wouldn't be too upset about it, lol.
   
   
3. The Romney-Ryan dog and pony show isn't even worth talking about, in my opinion. Bush Jr. dug the Republicans a *very* deep grave by centering his political philosophy around the religious right, and now they're paying through the teeth for it. The fact that they're even mentioning social issues with an unemployment rate this high should tell any sensible person how out of touch Romney and Ryan are.
   
   
4. I'm voting for Obama again this November because, although he hasn't accomplished as much as I'd like, I always have to remind myself that a gridlock between the executive and legislative branches is a good thing, as it prevents radical changes to our country in short periods of time. It's actually a wonder that Obama was even able to pass a version of his healthcare plan at all.

 

[Critical-Limit]

The only way you're getting media attention is if you get money from corporations the media will ignore and slander you otherwise. Need to get money out of politics.

 

[schnitzel_on_fire]

Wealthy corporations need to be taxed more, plain and simple, to keep money circulating in the US. [...] Apple (who I love), for example, is sitting pretty on $97.6 billion dollars. That money is going nowhere but in a bank or invested in other companies.

my point on this stands. fat corporations give the parties/presidential candidates _lots_ of money and therefore have a stake in the decisions that are made at the white house and in congress which allways WILL be considered; like taxation of fat corporate dollars. it's business. the campaigns, as they are, cost a lot of money. and that's not gonna change as long as american election campaigns are held, fanshioned, sold and broadcast like blockbuster entertainment events (i mean, hell, if mk ever got as much hype as the apparently oh-so-very-true love between romney and his highschool sweetheart of a wife, we'd be at evo for a lifetime).