NRS should really respect the 3D era characters more

[Lord Greyjoy]

Claiming the devs are ignoring the 3D era fighters is a bit unfair. They've have been gradually salvaging a portion of them since MK9 -- Quan Chi, Kenshi, Shinnok, Tanya, Bo Rai Cho -- in an effort that's been mostly positively met. It shows that some of these characters aren't completely worthless, so I think it's a good idea for NRS to continue (Fujin next pls) and I don't think many believe otherwise.

This also brings to mind what Boon said in a recent interview

I think Mortal Kombat 11 will introduce some new characters, but we have 80 characters or something, there’s always this passion to seeing your favorite character returning, Skarlet or Baraka. Baraka’s a big one. People were pissed when Baraka wasn’t in MKX. So I think if we had like a needle, it’d lean a little bit more towards servicing those players who want to see their favorite return.

It got me wondering if it's not better to look back and revamp existing, forgotten concepts instead of adding onto the pile of existing, forgotten concepts. Turning your average Deadly Alliance character from nobody to favorite is almost the same effort and result as creating a new character from scratch, and it doesn't dig NRS further into a hole where the vast majority of their work is missed (whether by few or many).

 

[zerosebaz]

When saying 3D era characters suck people tend to forget a lot of the classic cast also sucked in the 3D era. Jax and Reptile looked worse in MKDA than Havik and Sareena did in MKA.

Now, I am not saying every 3D era character should return, but quite a few of them could be reworked easily the same way some of the classics have been.

 

[RYX]

Drahmin and Mokap are the unsung heroes of 3D MK and singlehandedly revived the franchise in MKDA

 

[ImperatrixSindel]

I respect your passion here! But the fact is that the 3D era games... were not good games. I loved Deception for its lore and the wealth of single player content, but story aside the actual gameplay was clunky, unbalanced, and often unsatisfying. These games are not remembered fondly by the majority of gamers outside of hardcore MK fans. The characters from them are therefore painted somewhat unfairly with a broad brush.

With regard to '3D era characters' -- I don't think MK4 characters really count in that category, as MK4 is still a 2D game (it just uses 3D models) and the characters were designed by John Tobias. There's a reason why Quan Chi, Tanya, Fujin, and Sareena (who debuted in MK4 or Mythologies) really feel like Mortal Kombat characters: they were drawn by the same guy who created the Trilogy-era characters. They have a design aesthetic that feels consistent. Perhaps as a result, they're much more popular with the general fanbase than all of the 3D era characters with the exception of Kenshi.

The 3D era characters, by contrast, often feel like they jumped out of a different series entirely -- Mavado, Nitara, Dairou, Darrius, Hotaru, and Kobra in particular just do not feel like MK characters to me.

I think there are some 3D era characters who could flourish with a redesign -- Li Mei, Havik, and Ashrah come to mind as archetypes with potential. But there's no particular reason for NRS to 'respect' an era of the franchise widely regarded as its low point.

 

[LaidbackOne]

You should add most of those terribly shitty characters to the 'truly bad' list.

/THREAD

 

[Crimea]

The only good character after mk4 - Kenshi.
Never liked Li Mei. Back in the day I thought she was the boring version of Mileena. I can't even remember any interesting move she had. To make her interesting they need to create a totally new character and give her the same name.
Like they redesigned Tanya and Skarlet but you can recognise them because their original concept was already strong and memorable

 

[ChaosTheory]

When saying 3D era characters suck people tend to forget a lot of the classic cast also sucked in the 3D era. Jax and Reptile looked worse in MKDA than Havik and Sareena did in MKA.

Some characters were even redeemed in the 3D games. Nightwolf and especially Kabal, I thought, were really lame in MK3. But MKD made me a fan of both.

 

[Eji1700]

Kenshi - a little mary sue but no doubt popular.

Quan Chi- great addition, especially ever since his mk9 redesign. One of my favorites.

Tanya- I have no idea why anyone likes her? Shes boring and generic and serves no purpose in any direction. I was impressed with what they did with her for mk 11 but it could've been literally anyone else or someone new with the same moveset as far as I'm concerned.

Fujin- meh. Wind powers are interesting and i'd like to see them take another stab at him because of that, but everything he's been so far is boring.

Havik- Pretty great design, and yeah i'd love to see them try it again.

Sareena- Eh? I think she's overrated and if she didn't factor in on the mythologies side would be completely forgettable.

Reiko- I loved him in mk4 and I'd be the first to admit they never did anything with him and there's nothing special about him. I'd like to see what they'd do with that, but i doubt there's any reason to.

Ashrah- Another "well i'd like to see how they'd do it now, but nothing about them from before makes me care if they try"

Daegon- hell no. Generic antagonist for the dumpster fire mk armageddon plot can fuck right off.

Onaga- Only if they do a pretty heavy redesign. As is he's pretty much a let down. MK does have the potential to have some badasses roaming around, but they tend to handle them terribly (see kotal khan, supposed succssor to shao khan, taking turns losing to the toddler squad)

Bo'Rai Cho- i fucking hate this kind of character so i'll never miss him. I get why he's popular though and can respect that.

Drahmin- Neat idea, would like to see them try again with it now that they're a lot better at this. Same for moloch.

Taven- Same as daegon, he can fuck right off.

Frost- ehh. Like yeah she was interesting, but when you're already struggling for slots, another ice caster isn't high on my list.

Hotaru- yet another "interesting enough i'd like to see them try again but wouldn't care that much if they don't"

Kai- he's so boring i forgot he came back.

Kira- no point. Waste of space.

Li Mei- ditto

Mavado- maaaybe if only because his absurd stretch things would be interesting to see them attempt now?

Nitara- The wing gimmick could be interesting to see again, but overall eh.

Hsu Hao- I'd actually rather him than some of the others from above. At least he's a grappler which mk could use more of.

Kobra- pointless.

Jarek- ditto

Darrius- ditto.

If i had to pick 5 to come back(ignoring kenshi and quan who i think are 99% likely) i'd probably choose-

Fujin
Havik
Mavado
Drahmin
Hotaru

 

[NSR]

I respect your passion here! But the fact is that the 3D era games... were not good games. I loved Deception for its lore and the wealth of single player content, but story aside the actual gameplay was clunky, unbalanced, and often unsatisfying. These games are not remembered fondly by the majority of gamers outside of hardcore MK fans. The characters from them are therefore tainted somewhat unfairly with a bad brush.

With regard to '3D era characters' -- I don't think MK4 characters really count in that category, as MK4 is still a 2D game (it just uses 3D models) and the characters were designed by John Tobias. There's a reason why Quan Chi, Tanya, Fujin, and Sareena (who debuted visually in Mythologies) really feel like Mortal Kombat characters: they were drawn by the same guy who created the Trilogy-era characters. They have a design aesthetic that feels consistent. Perhaps as a result, they're much more popular with the general fanbase than all of the 3D era characters with the exception of Kenshi.

The 3D era characters, by contrast, often feel like they jumped out of a different series entirely -- Mavado, Nitara, Dairou, Darrius, Hotaru, and Kobra in particular just do not feel like MK characters to me.

I think there are some 3D era characters who could flourish with a redesign -- Li Mei, Havik, and Ashrah come to mind as archetypes with potential. But there's no particular reason for NRS to 'respect' an era of the franchise widely regarded as its low point.

Tanya was not in Mythologies. Shinnok was though.

 

[ImperatrixSindel]

Tanya was not in Mythologies. Shinnok was though.

I was referencing Sareena specifically with that aside, since she didn't become playable until the 3D era but predates it.

 

[NSR]

I was referencing Sareena specifically with that aside, since she didn't become playable until the 3D era but predates it.

Oh I know, I was just correcting that detail. I'm a bit of a lore freak at times hehe.

 

[stokedAF]

I was thinking about how mkx used cameos as non-playable characters that you face. The gameplay and characters are so dramatically different this time around, do you think we’ll see those again in mk11?

Like Sindel and Baraka were used but they just wouldn’t fit in this game. Baraka had to be completely revamped. I like the idea of characters not on the roster still being in the game and I would like to see that used for the 3D characters. It seems like too much work now though. Mk9 or mkx stuff can’t even be reused.

 

[ImperatrixSindel]

Oh I know, I was just correcting that detail. I'm a bit of a lore freak at times hehe.

Yeah I'm just saying that isn't what I meant -- I've rephrased the sentence for clarity.

I was thinking about how mkx used cameos as non-playable characters that you face. The gameplay and characters are so dramatically different this time around, do you think we’ll see those again in mk11?

Like Sindel and Baraka were used but they just wouldn’t fit in this game. Baraka had to be completely revamped. I like the idea of characters not on the roster still being in the game and I would like to see that used for the 3D characters. It seems like too much work now though. Mk9 or mkx stuff can’t even be reused.

NRS employees have said they aren't going to do the fightable NPC thing again because Boon was annoyed by the demands to make Sindel, Baraka, and Rain playable in MKX.

I think Sindel would work really well in this engine, though? There's more emphasis on zoning and footsies in this game, and that is her whole deal.

 

[Afk Skinny]

How can you not respect them? They are incredible! Between literally "Meat" , generic-vampire-chick , mostly-naked-mace-guy . And the greatest one of them all. The best. Goddamn Bo Rai Cho. The comedic character , that is not actually funny. Unless , you know , you're that type that finds out of context , random fart-jokes funny.
Yeah , I think I'll pass.

I mean c'mon be fair 2d had some of those.
Literal mall cop, genderbent Goro, guise Rain, hes purple and hes a prince XD, lets throw in like 8 ninjas (I love that they made them unique). And I love what they did with her, but Skarlets current moveset could've easily went to Nitara, but you know... 3D. But I've already accepted nrs hates the 3d era and will continue to cater to the trilogy era, just like pokemon always caters to the 1st gen cause people love nostalgia

 

[EarlyReflections]

You focus mostly on lore.
The success of a character depends on
1. Design
2. Fun gameplay
3. Unique traits
... And then backstory

Kabal: was a cop and black dragon, burned in Mk3. Thats all. Still, he is more insteresting than half of 3d era characters combined.
Sektor: son of LK grandmaster. That's it. Fan favorite.
Baraka: Eternal jobber. Fan favorite

Now,

Shujinko, Taven and Daegon: whole games' plots revolved around them. Shit tier.

 

[RonnyRAGE]

3D era Kharacters ranked

1. Havik I really like his design and he was badass in the comic.
2. Quan Chi
3. Kenshi
4. Tanya
5. Bo Rai Cho
6. Sareena
7. Nitara (Huge redesign)
8. Drahmin
9. Ashrah (Huge redesign show her Demon side)

I would love to see Taven get another shot only because it's my son's name.

The rest aren't worth mentioning

 

[mattteo]

You focus mostly on lore.
The success of a character depends on
1. Design
2. Fun gameplay
3. Unique traits
... And then backstory

Kabal: was a cop and black dragon, burned in Mk3. Thats all. Still, he is more insteresting than half of 3d era characters combined.
Sektor: son of LK grandmaster. That's it. Fan favorite.
Baraka: Eternal jobber. Fan favorite

Now,

Shujinko, Taven and Daegon: whole games' plots revolved around them. Shit tier.

That can easily be fixed with some moves. Yet they could never make Baraka more than a jobber, because they can't just give him a brain and personality.

 

[mattteo]

Kenshi - a little mary sue but no doubt popular.

Quan Chi- great addition, especially ever since his mk9 redesign. One of my favorites.

Tanya- I have no idea why anyone likes her? Shes boring and generic and serves no purpose in any direction. I was impressed with what they did with her for mk 11 but it could've been literally anyone else or someone new with the same moveset as far as I'm concerned.

Fujin- meh. Wind powers are interesting and i'd like to see them take another stab at him because of that, but everything he's been so far is boring.

Havik- Pretty great design, and yeah i'd love to see them try it again.

Sareena- Eh? I think she's overrated and if she didn't factor in on the mythologies side would be completely forgettable.

Reiko- I loved him in mk4 and I'd be the first to admit they never did anything with him and there's nothing special about him. I'd like to see what they'd do with that, but i doubt there's any reason to.

Ashrah- Another "well i'd like to see how they'd do it now, but nothing about them from before makes me care if they try"

Daegon- hell no. Generic antagonist for the dumpster fire mk armageddon plot can fuck right off.

Onaga- Only if they do a pretty heavy redesign. As is he's pretty much a let down. MK does have the potential to have some badasses roaming around, but they tend to handle them terribly (see kotal khan, supposed succssor to shao khan, taking turns losing to the toddler squad)

Bo'Rai Cho- i fucking hate this kind of character so i'll never miss him. I get why he's popular though and can respect that.

Drahmin- Neat idea, would like to see them try again with it now that they're a lot better at this. Same for moloch.

Taven- Same as daegon, he can fuck right off.

Frost- ehh. Like yeah she was interesting, but when you're already struggling for slots, another ice caster isn't high on my list.

Hotaru- yet another "interesting enough i'd like to see them try again but wouldn't care that much if they don't"

Kai- he's so boring i forgot he came back.

Kira- no point. Waste of space.

Li Mei- ditto

Mavado- maaaybe if only because his absurd stretch things would be interesting to see them attempt now?

Nitara- The wing gimmick could be interesting to see again, but overall eh.

Hsu Hao- I'd actually rather him than some of the others from above. At least he's a grappler which mk could use more of.

Kobra- pointless.

Jarek- ditto

Darrius- ditto.

If i had to pick 5 to come back(ignoring kenshi and quan who i think are 99% likely) i'd probably choose-

Fujin
Havik
Mavado
Drahmin
Hotaru

You're just talking from a moveset point of view. You would want Mavado back because of his elastics. I'm talking about the characters as a whole. Learn the damn characters' backgrounds!!

They can always invent movesets for them, the 3D era just didn't give them the proper tools to do what they can do now. Look at Skarlet. She is one-dimensional at first sight. She only uses blood and yet there are so many ways now that they find to incorporate blood.

 

[aldazo]

With Shao Kahn back Reiko is probably screwed; his character's only unique qualities lean on the former.

With shaoh khan being playable I think it is a great opportunity to add both and make them unique.

 

[stokedAF]

Yeah I'm just saying that isn't what I meant -- I've rephrased the sentence for clarity.


NRS employees have said they aren't going to do the fightable NPC thing again because Boon was annoyed by the demands to make Sindel, Baraka, and Rain playable in MKX.

I think Sindel would work really well in this engine, though? There's more emphasis on zoning and footsies in this game, and that is her whole deal.

Lol why wouldn’t you expect hype from cameos though? I thought that was the purpose. Hype for the next game. Baraka made it and I think Sindel and rain will be in this game as well.

I thought they were cool nods and didn’t need them playable. They were half baked characters like corrupted Shinnok or other cheap boss characters. Who actually wanted them playable in that form?

 

[ImperatrixSindel]

Lol why wouldn’t you expect hype from cameos though? I thought that was the purpose. Hype for the next game. Baraka made it and I think Sindel and rain will be in this game as well.

I thought they were cool nods and didn’t need them playable. They were half baked characters like corrupted Shinnok or other cheap boss characters. Who actually wanted them playable in that form?

I was hoping they'd be in KP2 fleshed out, but alas. I am also hoping that all three are playable in MK11! I don't care much about Rain but I know his fans are passionate.

 

[EarlyReflections]

Even if they give them some moves and redesign their appearance, this doesn't change the fact the they didn't have potential and unique traits in the first place.

So they'll end up with recycled moves and concepts from other characters. ( think of all of Kano's failed successors, or MKX variations that borrowed heavily from other characters)

Now, see MK11 Skarlet. Total redesign, but the potential and originality was always there. Plus, the "rumor" status of her works as advantage.

Erron black, two lines of backstory. Special and pop cultural visual traits, interesting and unique gameplay. The potential is there.

The 3d era is rich of story and has a few good characters, no one denies that though.

 

[stokedAF]

I was hoping they'd be in KP2 fleshed out, but alas. I am also hoping that all three are playable in MK11! I don't care much about Rain but I know his fans are passionate.

I just noticed your name and avatar. Of course you wanted sindel lol. I have never really played much of any of them except Baraka but I liked sindels character and story. I’m indifferent on rain as well, was still a cool nod though imo.

 

[NeonGroovyGator]

I feel like most of the fans of 3D era characters are lore junkies like me. I'd honestly be happy if NRS did more lore heavy projects, like a new MKSM-like game or more side stuff (such as the MKX comics). That'd be a way of bringing back the 3D games' strongest point without recycling characters most of the fans don't care about.
Hell, even something like the MKD konquest mode would make me happy.

 

[Blade4693]

I think so too. NRS has the talent to bring them back and make them awesome. I know MK has to have its legacy characters as all fighters do but I feel most of those 3D era characters can be redeemed. Obviously Hsu Hao, dairou, and Kobra probably won't come back but it has characters like Havik, Drahmin, Moloch, Li Mei that I personally think are really cool and could be awesome if made today. A few MK4 characters too like Fujin and Reiko could be remade to be awesome too. Just look a Skarlet as an example. There wasn't much to her in MK9 imo, and now she's f****** awesome!

Im just a bit tired of the Special Forces characters. I know Cassie is her own character and all but what is the point in aging Johnny, Sonya, and Jax, introducing their daughters as the next generation and then refuse to retire them? Do we really need all of them again when there are other characters who haven't been playable in 8+ years? I personally don't think so. Cage/Sonya/Jax can still be in the game and important to the story via cutscenes and such, they don't always need to be playable characters though. I am also a bit biased against Kano, he can afford to sit one out too imo.