NRS and their garbage patches (aka hotfixes)

[supahotbean]

I was thinking about this for a long time and wanted to type something here about it and get some opinions from you guys/ the community.

edit: I just found out that mk tom Brady just made a video on it and they were also talking about it in reo's latest podcast. anyways i'll still try and make my points that i have.

Last year Tekken had dropped the long-awaited season 4 update and include a pretty heavy patch. The patch note size was 47 PAGES! Although it didn't really fix the damage scaling, it did address some pretty big issues like fahkumram a little, added more moves to the game, and addressed low-tier characters like lars. This whole update was made during covid.

Following the Tekken update, we got our long-awaited ultimate update in which they were saying, in the combat cast, how it was going to change the game and flip the meta... etc. In this god tier (hotfix) we got 95 character-specific adjustments (excluding poke changes). Most of the character-specific changes were bug fixes or bans. The Funny thing about this is that most of the " hit adjustment" fixes still miss or don't fully work as stated in the patch.

Following our dumpster fire patch (aka a hotfix), on the 22 of this month SFV releases their long-awaited patch and actually fixed issues in the game that people were talking about. The patch size was 57 PAGES! hell, they even gave a paragraph on to why they buffed ryu the way they did.

If we look at each of these games and look at updates sizes and what they address; we can clearly see nrs clearly just doesn't fix their game, even though we are on a similar update schedule to that of SFV and Tekken.

I'll give NRS the benefit of a doubt since they had to deal with covid, but I'm not going to ease up on them too much because Tekken and SFV both delivered community changes and made the game feel like new while operating in a coivd environment. ( ill leave out the part that these companies are based in Asia which was hit the hardest upfront. Although they probably have already exited their lockdown status while we are still kind of in one)

With the lack of general communication and road map, im getting really tired of this game, and think a lot of people are too. Seems like the only time they will actually address things is when they want to dig into our pockets for another combat pack that has unfinished characters and sell it to us for 40 dollars with a re-release version of the game for 99.99.

hopefully, you guys understand what i mean. ggs

 

[Ashesfall]

I am aware of all 3 titles mentioned here and there is one argue I want to add here because this makes me kinda salty.

Tekken7 (my fav gameplay title) did (in my opinion) great season patches, where I really felt like: "nice fresh air to enjoy the game again" with totally new moves and even systems!
SF5 (I don't play) gets so many patches too when a new season hits, not just the latest one.
And now MK11, MK11 is backed up by WB Games (they have MONEY!) while capcom and namco struggles on the money part but yet they deliver so much more ... bad taste in my mouth.

Is it greed? Is it laziness? Do they feel their game is perfect and never needs to be touched, not even for a "fresh air" feeling?

With the lack of general communication and road map, im getting really tired of this game, and think a lot of people are too.

This also bothers me, to be honest
a roadmap is cool as you know this game is not dead or dying, makes it more interesting to keep playing and be excited for the future.
I personally really hope that MK11 is not done, but we all have no clue.

(lol @RamzzzTV on YouTube, who has like every day a big "leak", make a random anonymous leak post, and he will talk about it )

 

[Infamous718]

There definitely needs to be better communication. I just don't see any major changes coming in the middle of a pro series

 

[NaCl man]

Sfv has been out since 2016 and tekken 7 has been out since 2015( in arcades which i was lucky enough to live near one) and these games have had some big issues along the way. I personally am not a fan of mk11 but they did just release customs not that long ago which is quite a big change and it will take time to sort out all that stuff. To assume they are doing nothing or don't care is a bit rough. Sometimes you have to be patient.

 

[supahotbean]

Sfv has been out since 2016 and tekken 7 has been out since 2015( in arcades which i was lucky enough to live near one) and these games have had some big issues along the way. I personally am not a fan of mk11 but they did just release customs not that long ago which is quite a big change and it will take time to sort out all that stuff. To assume they are doing nothing or don't care is a bit rough. Sometimes you have to be patient.

this game has been out since 2019. If you had a time machine you could probably ask a pro player from 2019 what are some of the problems and issues he has with the game and theres a pretty good chance most of those problems he said are still in the game.

Also, this is like NRS's fifth fighting game. They should have this formula down pact by now.

 

[Ashesfall]

Sometimes you have to be patient.

Patients yes, false hope and be disappointed no.

Tekken players with no arcades (like ~90% of the player base) really needed to be patient anyways
2015 T7 vanilla
2016 Fated Retribution
2017 finally console
Season 1, 2, 3 and 4.
So even its longer out, the content and changes are massively higher.
---
But maybe the great story mode in MK11 (no irony) ate all the games budget

 

[NaCl man]

Vanilla was a mess
Fr was broken akuma was hella broken
Console release kazumi,drag and jack akuma still dumb
Seeason 2 kazumi,jin and Steve dumb akuma still broken geese dumb ( this was my fav season)
Season 3 leory and fak yay broken ,damage way to high, nearly every character carries you to the wall with 1 combo and you are 1 guess away from death
Season 4 is a bit better season 3.

We had to sit and wait for all of these things to be fixed but they have been addressed. Took time though especially akuma.

Customs only dropped a few months ago and that in its self is huge thing to add and balance. If this was available in competitive play for the whole 2 years fair enough but it wasn't. It will take time.
I guess that is if they decide to continue supporting the game

 

[xWildx]

Honestly, I hate this argument that “it takes a long time to balance customs.”

What has the balance team been doing for the past 2 years then? They finish the game then just fuck off? It doesn’t exactly take a rocket scientist to see which moves are severely lacking compared to others.

I think that’s what has so many people fed up with NRS. 2 years, and we still have a ton of moves that are utterly useless. Or, instead of fixing them, they just ban them.

“Oh, but they don’t want to interrupt the pro series!” Oh, boo hoo. Leave the game an utter mess for 6 months so we can watch a dozen or so of the same people play in an online cup every week.

 

[NaCl man]

Patients yes, false hope and be disappointed no.

Tekken players with no arcades (like ~90% of the player base) really needed to be patient anyways
2015 T7 vanilla
2016 Fated Retribution
2017 finally console
Season 1, 2, 3 and 4.
So even its longer out, the content and changes are massively higher.
---
But maybe the great story mode in MK11 (no irony) ate all the games budget

Honestly, I hate this argument that “it takes a long time to balance customs.”

What has the balance team been doing for the past 2 years then? They finish the game then just fuck off? It doesn’t exactly take a rocket scientist to see which moves are severely lacking compared to others.

I think that’s what has so many people fed up with NRS. 2 years, and we still have a ton of moves that are utterly useless. Or, instead of fixing them, they just ban them.

“Oh, but they don’t want to interrupt the pro series!” Oh, boo hoo. Leave the game an utter mess for 6 months so we can watch a dozen or so of the same people play in an online cup every week.

Its all good to know what move are good and ones that suck but the slightest change can have a massive effect on the entire game.

 

[NaCl man]

Patients yes, false hope and be disappointed no.

Tekken players with no arcades (like ~90% of the player base) really needed to be patient anyways
2015 T7 vanilla
2016 Fated Retribution
2017 finally console
Season 1, 2, 3 and 4.
So even its longer out, the content and changes are massively higher.
---
But maybe the great story mode in MK11 (no irony) ate all the games budget

Funny this was just uploaded lol

 

[Revy]

NRS has been awful with patches & hotfixes since MK9. This isn't anything new.

 

[Ashesfall]

@NaCl man
wouldn't you agree that Tekken7 is way more complex and harder to balance, jet the game is to me the most balanced Tekken ever.
Tekken devs massively changed the game on feedback (of course it takes time tho)

(akuma to me is a special case, as he is so different and on top a crazy execution monster, the reason you won't face him in ranked anyways ...)

To stay positive tho, as I like MK11, I just hope for the best, but if we see a Injustice3 announcement and MK11 is done. I will be for sure super disappointed.

 

[supahotbean]

Vanilla was a mess
Fr was broken akuma was hella broken
Console release kazumi,drag and jack akuma still dumb
Seeason 2 kazumi,jin and Steve dumb akuma still broken geese dumb ( this was my fav season)
Season 3 leory and fak yay broken ,damage way to high, nearly every character carries you to the wall with 1 combo and you are 1 guess away from death
Season 4 is a bit better season 3.

We had to sit and wait for all of these things to be fixed but they have been addressed. Took time though especially akuma.

Customs only dropped a few months ago and that in its self is huge thing to add and balance. If this was available in competitive play for the whole 2 years fair enough but it wasn't. It will take time.
I guess that is if they decide to continue supporting the game

Last time I check tekken didn't drop a patch to buff someone by 10% and then just go ghost again. At least with tekken you kinda know when the next patch is coming. Took mk 2 years to make a string special cancelable....remember that



Edit: also I didn't mind season 2 and 3. Pre patch leory was pretty fun.

 

[SAREDODEVIL]

Nrs has always been pretty bad with patches, nothing new, What I don't like about NRS is that they develop their game and in 2 years they throw it away, they leave it, they forget it. Especially MK9, that game had it all

 

[PapaRegadetho]

You guys would lose your minds if we got ONE patch per year lmao. Imagine waiting for 4 years to revive a character from the dead, not just any character but one who is the godfather of fighing games..

 

[supahotbean]

You guys would lose your minds if we got ONE patch per year lmao. Imagine waiting for 4 years to revive a character from the dead, not just any character but one who is the godfather of fighing games..

I'm not saying every year

 

[Dogeofthesea]

At this point I'm not even sure if MK is worth their AAA price anymore. I can't expect NRS to be as efficient as Volvo giving so much content to Dota2, but can you please at least act better than an Indie developer?

 

[Metin]

Let's check what they did with the patches;

- Nerfs and Buffs; i am sure there is no one that understand the logic here, Scorpion nerfed but keeping Jacqui almost untouched except those miserable Jacqui nerfs. Nerf Geras tradition in every patch. %1 damage NERF to x character, %2 damage buff to y character. Even there was an input NERF for Erron Black which is probably the only one in entire FG history. So discussing this point is actually pointless imo because NRS acting like they are high all the time. Still resisting to NERF Jacqui, Sheeva, Cetrion, Subzero and Joker.

- Armor Breaker Mechanic; this was a nice touch imo but they should have add it as an universal mechanic not variation or ability specific.

The Eternal Poke Issue; shouldn't be that hard to add pushback on hit to them right? But for some reason NRS resisting to do that and wants to keep them as the way they are and not suprisingly we have to play that miserable poke heavy game because pokes are amazing... Jails, throws, stealing the turn.. you can do whatever you want after a succesful poke.

There are a lot of things to say here but i am really tired of discussing these kind of things and lost my trust to Nrs, MK 11 is the only MK game that i deleted from my console before a new mk game comes out. i don't want to waste my time anymore for this garbage game. As a dedicated fan for almost 25 years here is my current situation. Not much to say, i am not the only one i know also i am not interested in opposite opinions, if you like the game, fine, good for you.. keep playing it, i am not saying you are stupid or idiot, this is just my personal feelings.

 

[Onryoki]

Well... tbh. Tekken is a Japanese fighter. Most Japanese fighting games are made to last like 5-7 years, whereas games like MKX, MK11 and Injustice 1 and 2 have always been designed to last for a shorter time.

Sadly I don’t think MK11 will last that long, if they don’t make any significant changes or announce any type of content for the game.

 

[supahotbean]

NRS has been awful with patches & hotfixes since MK9. This isn't anything new.

That kinda proves my point a little. If nrs is still doing bad habits from over 4 games ago (10 years ago), do they ever really learn from their mistakes ? Do they think their game and their practices are fine and should not be tweaked just a little ? Do they really think they have the most ballenced game on the market ?

 

[trufenix]

if you want to talk about games that were patched well, definitely don't include the game that had Leroy in it. And SF5s patches only seem good cause that game launched with 4 characters and a training mode.

 

[trufenix]

That kinda proves my point a little. If nrs is still doing bad habits from over 4 games ago (10 years ago), do they ever really learn from their mistakes ? Do they think their game and their practices are fine and should not be tweaked just a little ? Do they really think they have the most ballenced game on the market ?

Or is it perhaps that some mother fuckers are always trying to ice skate up hill?

hmm.

 

[Marlow]

Do they really think they have the most balanced game on the market ?

MK11 seems pretty par for the course when it comes to balance, especially compared to other fighting games.

 

[Marinjuana]

There's a lot of character variety in tournaments and has been for a while, and you don't need to follow other games that closely to know that most have or have had busted characters or some other nonsense. I would like to see some customs buffed and I think Jaqcui is boring to watch but she's not even in the top ten busted NRS characters. NRS can't win on their patch strategy either, before they were a laughing stock because they would have massive nerfs even during tourney season and now people are whining about the lack of changes.

I just want to see them have more pride about some of these customs that they worked hard to make, not every move needs to be tournament viable but I'd like to see some of these be more usable, especially some of the setup moves that are just too slow.

It's gotten better thankfully but some of these games still have asscheeks net code btw, like wow look at the patch notes for this unplayable game

 

[supahotbean]

There's a lot of character variety in tournaments and has been for a while, and you don't need to follow other games that closely to know that most have or have had busted characters or some other nonsense. I would like to see some customs buffed and I think Jaqcui is boring to watch but she's not even in the top ten busted NRS characters. NRS can't win on their patch strategy either, before they were a laughing stock because they would have massive nerfs even during tourney season and now people are whining about the lack of changes.

I just want to see them have more pride about some of these customs that they worked hard to make, not every move needs to be tournament viable but I'd like to see some of these be more usable, especially some of the setup moves that are just too slow.

It's gotten better thankfully but some of these games still have asscheeks net code btw, like wow look at the patch notes for this unplayable game

Sfv net code isn't that bad anymore and tekken has roll back. Also with those games, at least you have a connection filter