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Strategy Now That's What I Call An Entrance -- Green Arrow General Discussion Thread

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
If someone has a PS4 and kan bring it to EVO, we should all play Towerfall Ascension to determine who the best Arrow is... That game looks hype.
 

Jimmypotato

Mid Tier
Who's still fighting the good fight with Arrow??

I know Cossner and Chris G will be repping at Evo, who else will I be cheering for

@7L going?

I'm cheering for no one else but Arrow players. And if you pick Aquaman @Cossner and it's on stream, you will be dead to me. (off stream is fine because it's like hiding an ugly girlfriend)

The only hype in this game is now when a shitter character wins.
 

7L

Heads up!
Premium Supporter
Sadly I cant make it. Not being 21 sucks too. So my next tourney will be summer jam since it's my 21st birthday. I plan on bodying people with all the gimmicks in the world. I'll be rooting for cossner and chris jesus at evo. Do me proud!
 

GTDoffen

Meet your fate...
I am calling out to the Arrow community for some guidance on his oki-game!
First of all, what do you think of his knockdown game?
Do you usually end your combos in 111, load arrow or 223, load arrow, and can you explain excactly why do this? I can see this being split, and match-up dependant. For myself, in the Aquaman matchup I like to end with 223 and jump in on him followed with a mix-up of some sort...

The reason why I am asking this is because lately I`ve noticed that after I have used bounce interactables in combos, the gravity is so great that after a 223 knockdown into arrow load you really do not have much advantage. You generally get punish if you dash in D1 after that knockdown, so I am questioning why I go for the hard knockdown yet I cannot really continue pressure. Would really like your input!

@7L @Cossner @ando1184 @Red Reaper @Scoot Magee @Jimmypotato @Eddy Wang @CalebHara
 

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
I am calling out to the Arrow community for some guidance on his oki-game!
First of all, what do you think of his knockdown game?
Do you usually end your combos in 111, load arrow or 223, load arrow, and can you explain excactly why do this? I can see this being split, and match-up dependant. For myself, in the Aquaman matchup I like to end with 223 and jump in on him followed with a mix-up of some sort...

The reason why I am asking this is because lately I've noticed that after I have used bounce interactables in combos, the gravity is so great that after a 223 knockdown into arrow load you really do not have much advantage. You generally get punish if you dash in D1 after that knockdown, so I am questioning why I go for the hard knockdown yet I cannot really continue pressure. Would really like your input!

@7L @Cossner @ando1184 @Red Reaper @Scoot Magee @Jimmypotato @Eddy Wang @CalebHara
I go for 223~Load arrow but it is match up specific as well as kombo specific.. Different kombos have different knockdown advantages and thus allow for different options. F2D13, dash, 223~LA ender has the most knockdown advantage I've seen and usually allows for a meaty 2 (223) or a meaty D1 depending on the range you've done it on (F2 kombo at max range has different advantage than at point blank).

For longer kombos, I don't bother going into 223 and just do 111 to get them to the korner since the knockdown advantage will be insignificant but usually my oki konsists of using some type of arrow.

For Aquaman I use fire arrows if I want to be safe since he kan't jump those in most knockdowns but it depends on the knockdown. Spacing also changes your options. This is one of the reasons why I feel that arrow would be one of the most technical characters to master in this game.

I normally have this kolor koded to tell me which arrows they kan't jump (since different arrows travel at different speeds) but I'll just put "///" and then the type of arrow they kan't jump. There's order in the type of arrows as well, Electric is the fastest, Fire is next, and Ice is the slowest. So if they kan't jump Ice then they won't be able to jump Fire or Electric. Standing and krouching when shooting also makes a difference and the direction in which they jump does so as well for obvious reasons. Depending on the match up I sometimes only put the arrows to kount for limiting the jump forward option but for characters like Black Adam or Martian who have options from jumping back I make sure to include this on the minimum.

Also, these kombos assume that you are doing the 223 ender at the max height possible. So don't f*ck up... lol.

Here's my notes:
Ending in 223 means 223~LA
Q = Quick (as fast as possible)
< = loses to

F2D13, Dash, 223 : SB, Q/D4, 4, JB4 /// Low Fire
113, J2, 223 : SB(<FTD), Q/SLD
B2~Ice, B3, J3, 223 : SB, D4, 4, Q/JB4 /// Low Fire
B2~Ice, B3, J3, J2, 223 : SB(<FTD), Q/SLD
F2D13~Ice, B3, J3, 223 : D4, 4, JB4<TS /// Standing Fire
F2D13~Ice, B3, J3, J2, 223 : Q/SB(<FTD)



If you notice things like doing the J2 in B3, J3, J2, 223 scale the knockdown. Which is why I usually omit that to allow for oki depending on the character.

Anyway. This only tells you your safest options. Once they respect you, you kan start mixing them up. Though, learn to gauge them since if they don't respect you ever it will be a high risk, low reward situation.

PS: I don't really do background bounce kombos since they don't really add damage and it's one more thing to kalculate for oki.

TL;DR : Arrow's oki is very match up specific and requires much knowledge.
 

YOMI DJT

LIn Kuei Champion
Why is arrow considered to be so low?

Because of his horrific matchups like aqua mmh? And low damage?
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Dude, i sold my injustice game, my arrow and injustice opinion has become irrelevant.

If it was, i would use d2 load arrows during mid combos to always have a loaded arrow for pressure on knockdowns, sure it would improve his oki game, but it would sacrifice damage he hardly gets.

I did a vídeo about this before selling my game, so i didn't had the chance to fully go deep into that strat, here it is if you want to know what i'm talking about:

http://testyourmight.com/threads/start-a-combo-reload-arrow-and-fire-it-in-the-same-combo-midscreen.36710/

I remember that arrow got a bit of damage buff in the final patch, not sure if made those setups useful
 

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
Why is arrow considered to be so low?

Because of his horrific matchups like aqua mmh? And low damage?
He at best has lot of even match ups across the board and a few bad match ups. For the most part I just believe that there are more characters that do better than him and he has no BS in a game full of it.
 

YOMI DJT

LIn Kuei Champion
He at best has lot of even match ups across the board and a few bad match ups. For the most part I just believe that there are more characters that do better than him and he has no BS in a game full of it.
Yeah he's like top low tier if that makes any sense aha
 

GTDoffen

Meet your fate...
I go for 223~Load arrow but it is match up specific as well as kombo specific.. Different kombos have different knockdown advantages and thus allow for different options. F2D13, dash, 223~LA ender has the most knockdown advantage I've seen and usually allows for a meaty 2 (223) or a meaty D1 depending on the range you've done it on (F2 kombo at max range has different advantage than at point blank).

For longer kombos, I don't bother going into 223 and just do 111 to get them to the korner since the knockdown advantage will be insignificant but usually my oki konsists of using some type of arrow.

For Aquaman I use fire arrows if I want to be safe since he kan't jump those in most knockdowns but it depends on the knockdown. Spacing also changes your options. This is one of the reasons why I feel that arrow would be one of the most technical characters to master in this game.

I normally have this kolor koded to tell me which arrows they kan't jump (since different arrows travel at different speeds) but I'll just put "///" and then the type of arrow they kan't jump. There's order in the type of arrows as well, Electric is the fastest, Fire is next, and Ice is the slowest. So if they kan't jump Ice then they won't be able to jump Fire or Electric. Standing and krouching when shooting also makes a difference and the direction in which they jump does so as well for obvious reasons. Depending on the match up I sometimes only put the arrows to kount for limiting the jump forward option but for characters like Black Adam or Martian who have options from jumping back I make sure to include this on the minimum.

Also, these kombos assume that you are doing the 223 ender at the max height possible. So don't f*ck up... lol.

Here's my notes:
Ending in 223 means 223~LA
Q = Quick (as fast as possible)
< = loses to

F2D13, Dash, 223 : SB, Q/D4, 4, JB4 /// Low Fire
113, J2, 223 : SB(<FTD), Q/SLD
B2~Ice, B3, J3, 223 : SB, D4, 4, Q/JB4 /// Low Fire
B2~Ice, B3, J3, J2, 223 : SB(<FTD), Q/SLD
F2D13~Ice, B3, J3, 223 : D4, 4, JB4<TS /// Standing Fire
F2D13~Ice, B3, J3, J2, 223 : Q/SB(<FTD)



If you notice things like doing the J2 in B3, J3, J2, 223 scale the knockdown. Which is why I usually omit that to allow for oki depending on the character.

Anyway. This only tells you your safest options. Once they respect you, you kan start mixing them up. Though, learn to gauge them since if they don't respect you ever it will be a high risk, low reward situation.

PS: I don't really do background bounce kombos since they don't really add damage and it's one more thing to kalculate for oki.

TL;DR : Arrow's oki is very match up specific and requires much knowledge.
Really like these options, will have to take a closer look on them in the lab so I can get the best out of his oki. I see what you are saying about the bounce interactable combos, that was the main reason why I wrote the post. I have always thought that doing interactable combos would sort of help his low damage output, but it makes him limited for continued pressure.

Good to see that some people still play him :)
 

GTDoffen

Meet your fate...
Dude, i sold my injustice game, my arrow and injustice opinion has become irrelevant.

If it was, i would use d2 load arrows during mid combos to always have a loaded arrow for pressure on knockdowns, sure it would improve his oki game, but it would sacrifice damage he hardly gets.

I did a vídeo about this before selling my game, so i didn't had the chance to fully go deep into that strat, here it is if you want to know what i'm talking about:

http://testyourmight.com/threads/start-a-combo-reload-arrow-and-fire-it-in-the-same-combo-midscreen.36710/

I remember that arrow got a bit of damage buff in the final patch, not sure if made those setups useful
Oh, I had no idea. Fair enough
 

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
Really like these options, will have to take a closer look on them in the lab so I can get the best out of his oki. I see what you are saying about the bounce interactable combos, that was the main reason why I wrote the post. I have always thought that doing interactable combos would sort of help his low damage output, but it makes him limited for continued pressure.

Good to see that some people still play him :)
Good to know my efforts actually help someone. Some people aren't as interested in the technical aspects and it makes me less motivated to translate my own personal notes. I have gone through the whole kast but translating it takes time so I'm reluctant to do so.

And yeah. The background basically adds no damage. Only time I use it is for unclashable damage like Background into MB Up Arrows (1 hit) into B3 (since B3 alone is dependent on spacing in relation to the background and stage).
 

PunkMafia83

PSN: YaRnToNpUnKMAFIA
Hi arrowers. After my recent tournament 9th position, I am winding down on injustice. When I do play however, I want to have fun. I find arrow a lot of fun.

I do have some questions though. My friend plays Grundy, I do struggle in this mu. So any pointers?

Also, after a meterburn b3, what's your standard bnb?

Standard combo after a d2? With or without an ice arrow loaded?

YOU HAVE FAILED THIS CITY!
 

GTDoffen

Meet your fate...
Hi arrowers. After my recent tournament 9th position, I am winding down on injustice. When I do play however, I want to have fun. I find arrow a lot of fun.

I do have some questions though. My friend plays Grundy, I do struggle in this mu. So any pointers?

Also, after a meterburn b3, what's your standard bnb?

Standard combo after a d2? With or without an ice arrow loaded?

YOU HAVE FAILED THIS CITY!
Hi! I would say that you should try to really implement Savage blast in the neutral game against Grundy. It is grab immune, so you can make his walking corpse wiff on reaction. If he is cancelling his walking into another walking corpse to counter the Savage Blast I still think you have recovered and can do another one. You can also cancel strings into Savage blast. Another thing to note is that MB stinger is grab immune, which I think is a solid wakeup option.

I also like to try and bait him to use his meter on his MB swamp hands. The way I do that is by shooting arrows. You have to do this on a read, dont get reckless. MB swamp hands have armor, so it can get if you carelessly trade arrows with MB swamp hands.

An universal way to beat many of Grundy`s options is to MB B3. You should also go into practice and figure out where there are gaps in Grundy`s pressure. If you see they like to tick throw and cancel their strings into grab, you can actually do regular/MB B3 or F3 so the grab wiffs and you get a full combo punish. You can also MB B3/F3 his Cleaver and Swamp Hands. The start up on those moves are so slow that you can react on overhead/low.

I have a couple of B3 BnBs:
- B3, JI3, JI2, 223/111 xx load arrow/stinger (I end in 223 load arrow if I want to pressure on knockdown. I usually end in 111 load arrow if I have a life lead and want to slow the pace of the game down and zone a bit. I also end in 111 if I know they have good wakeups I do not want to bother contesting. 111 into stinger for max damage)
- B3, dash, 3 xx DF1 (input is reversed!), 223 xx load arrow (Side switch combo with hard knocdown)
- B3, dash, 3 xx DF1, DF1, 111 xx load arrow (max damage side switch combo. Most damage if you do not want hardknockdown)
- B3, dash, DF1 (only one arrow shall hit), D2 xx load freeze arrow, 11 xx D4, JI2, 111/B2 xx 4 (Leaves them standing for a mixup. I like to end in B2 xx 4 because you end closer to them, and can do a ambigous cross up JI3 into sky alert setup)

Note on the B3 combos: Generally, the more hits in the combo, the higher gravity. So in certain matchups I do combos like B3, JI3, 223 xx load arrow. You get a better oki game, but that is up to you.

The D2 combos depend if you the opponent airborne or on the ground. On grounded opponents I usually just do : D2, F2D13 xx load arrow/stinger. If you have arrow equipped, you cancel D2 into freeze into regular BnBs.

If you hit them airborne you can do: D2, JI2, 223/111 xx load arrow.
With freeze arrow: same as grounded opponent combo.
If hit them at the peek of their jump: D2, B3, JI3, JI2, 111/223 xx load arrow

I hope this information helps :)
 

PunkMafia83

PSN: YaRnToNpUnKMAFIA
Hi! I would say that you should try to really implement Savage blast in the neutral game against Grundy. It is grab immune, so you can make his walking corpse wiff on reaction. If he is cancelling his walking into another walking corpse to counter the Savage Blast I still think you have recovered and can do another one. You can also cancel strings into Savage blast. Another thing to note is that MB stinger is grab immune, which I think is a solid wakeup option.

I also like to try and bait him to use his meter on his MB swamp hands. The way I do that is by shooting arrows. You have to do this on a read, dont get reckless. MB swamp hands have armor, so it can get if you carelessly trade arrows with MB swamp hands.

An universal way to beat many of Grundy`s options is to MB B3. You should also go into practice and figure out where there are gaps in Grundy`s pressure. If you see they like to tick throw and cancel their strings into grab, you can actually do regular/MB B3 or F3 so the grab wiffs and you get a full combo punish. You can also MB B3/F3 his Cleaver and Swamp Hands. The start up on those moves are so slow that you can react on overhead/low.

I have a couple of B3 BnBs:
- B3, JI3, JI2, 223/111 xx load arrow/stinger (I end in 223 load arrow if I want to pressure on knockdown. I usually end in 111 load arrow if I have a life lead and want to slow the pace of the game down and zone a bit. I also end in 111 if I know they have good wakeups I do not want to bother contesting. 111 into stinger for max damage)
- B3, dash, 3 xx DF1 (input is reversed!), 223 xx load arrow (Side switch combo with hard knocdown)
- B3, dash, 3 xx DF1, DF1, 111 xx load arrow (max damage side switch combo. Most damage if you do not want hardknockdown)
- B3, dash, DF1 (only one arrow shall hit), D2 xx load freeze arrow, 11 xx D4, JI2, 111/B2 xx 4 (Leaves them standing for a mixup. I like to end in B2 xx 4 because you end closer to them, and can do a ambigous cross up JI3 into sky alert setup)

Note on the B3 combos: Generally, the more hits in the combo, the higher gravity. So in certain matchups I do combos like B3, JI3, 223 xx load arrow. You get a better oki game, but that is up to you.

The D2 combos depend if you the opponent airborne or on the ground. On grounded opponents I usually just do : D2, F2D13 xx load arrow/stinger. If you have arrow equipped, you cancel D2 into freeze into regular BnBs.

If you hit them airborne you can do: D2, JI2, 223/111 xx load arrow.
With freeze arrow: same as grounded opponent combo.
If hit them at the peek of their jump: D2, B3, JI3, JI2, 111/223 xx load arrow

I hope this information helps :)
Honestly I never thought about about savage blast in that match up that's tight. Thanks for the bnb ideas as well. So far I am ending a lot of stuff with 2 2 3 load arrow will think about the other stuff.

That seems like like solid info. Thanks man. I appreciate it.
 

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
Honestly I never thought about about savage blast in that match up that's tight. Thanks for the bnb ideas as well. So far I am ending a lot of stuff with 2 2 3 load arrow will think about the other stuff.

That seems like like solid info. Thanks man. I appreciate it.
F2 is grab invincible as well. Use it and you can get a full kombo. Just make sure you learn the timing.