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Neutral or no Neutral? That is the question. Stress Test Podcast Discussion.

Which gameplay mechanic should be changed? (Two Choices)


  • Total voters
    97

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Royal Contributor
Description

REO, Tom Brady, BDon, who joins for a little bit, and I discuss Mortal Kombat 11's gameplay based on our experiences from the stress test.

Time Stamps

0:28 - General impressions of the game (based on the stress test)
06:42 - Opinions of the three characters (Baraka, Scorpion, and Skarlet)
13:37 - Feedback, suggestions, and improvements (to the new gameplay elements)
41:04 - Thoughts on kustom variations versus preset variations (the incessant debate)
53:27 - Does Scorpion's amplified teleport break footsies? (REO's question)
58:20 - Fool of the Week (@CrimsonShadow)
1:03:46 - Hero of the Week (@16 Bit)


Video


Please vote in the poll and explain your choice.

@HellblazerHawkman , an article to the front page would be appreciated. Thank you.
 
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Shark Tank

I don't actually play these games
Did someone say nooch?

Also regarding custom vs presets, while I agree with tom that with the current UI it's not really feasible to have custom variations offline due to headaches, it's not some insurmountable obstacle for a UI change that allows a simplified menu at character select for people to make a variation quickly. Ball is in their court to do this and I haven't seen much of a whiff on what they're going to do outside of their previous stance on using pre-sets. I also disagree with Reo that online tournaments using custom variations vs offline using pre-sets, because then you have two different metas and formats which can cause ruleset holy wars between online players and offline.
 
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lionheart21

Day One Johnny Cage Main
Since dashing was said to be different in the release build, my main change at the moment would probably be to Flawless Block, the U+2 portion at least. It might be something that with time and practice can be dealt with, but for the time being, it's really the only glaring issue that I've got.
 

Baconlord

Proud follower of the church of Cetrion
I went with breakaway's and flawless block. I personally don't like combo breakers as a mechanic at all and so far I don't think this game needs them. and I'll be perfectly honest I'm not good enough to do flawless block consistently yet but if sonic says you can os every string with it then I'll just take his word on it lol
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
I still think with tweaked damage this game doesn't really needs break aways.
U2 doesn't need to launch gapped strings after a flawless block
Dashes/backdashes could use less recovery, they feel a lot sluggish for the distance they cover.
Krushing blows seems fair so far.
And maybe wakeup windows could be a little bit relaxed, i still haven't figured it out how it works, maybe due the lack of training mode in the beta.
 

Ermaculate_Slim

We are Many but we didnt make MK11 not one
My biggest issue is the Fatal Blow mechanic and the Breakaway.FIrst off fatal blows shouldn't be safe and If you miss it you shouldn't get it back 6 seconds later.It should be over with for that round.I believe sonic fox already covered the problem with breakaways but I just wanna add that theres been a few occasions where I purposly dropped a combo cause Im afraid of my opponent breaking away and blowing me up.Why do I have to risk myself just to complete a simple bnb.But really that's all I had gripes about but overall the game is amazing it just needs a few tweaks here and there to make it a memorable game.
 

STB Sgt Reed

Online Warrior
Premium Supporter
Where's the "none" option??

I don't mind any of that stuff. The biggest problem I have is the D1's aren't plus enough on hit imo. But that's about it.

I voted for fatal blow because if you use it, whether it hits or not, it should be gone for that round. Imo of course.
 

Pterodactyl

Jacqui main since Dead Alliance
I think they should change the timing on the flawless block follow ups to make u2 more situational instead of the only real answer, invalidating u3.

If there are no situations where u3 is the superior option then it’ll be entirely useless.
 

kevkopdx

Noob
People need to let bygones be bygones; Tom Brady is a smart, entertaining guy and has a lot of great insight.
The other guy doing all the name calling and trash talking, grow up.
Why people can’t agree to disagree or argue constructively is beyond me.
Good podcast for the most part :)

I completely agree on scorpions teleport, it’s a stupid move that ignores the neutral focus. I’d also like to see combo damage reduced.

I’m prepared to let everything else rock, despite my preconceptions before actually playing the game. I’m surprisingly ok with the the toned down combos, game is a ton of fun!
 
Breakaway works only if you’re launched right? That should be changed.
Walking is okay unless there isn’t a bid difference. Kung Lao had the worst walkspeed in MKX abd the worst dash.
 

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
Cool podcast.

I'm honestly okay with all the mechanics, I don't think anything should be removed. I really just want to see how it plays out more, I think flawless block in particular is one that needs more time. I do think a little more risk or cooldown on fatal blows might be a good thing though. Breakouts seem great to me honestly but perhaps they could adjust the "knockdown" time.

But I'm 100% on the Kustom Variation freight train CHOOOO CHOOOO!!!!! We're going all the way Evo on this bitch CHOOO CHOOO!!!!!

Really though, I think it's unhealthy for the game to split the player base in between gear mode/competitive and I think it will just add depth. The major concern to me is balance but I believe it can work. Issues of tournament speed and the opponent not knowing your specials are just a UI challenge for NRS which they can make just for the tournament mode character select screen. Also I think there's also just a bunch of problems with the 3 preset variation system that get improved or fixed with kustom variations.
 

xWildx

What a day. What a lovely day.
So.... you guys are concerned that people will only pick the best moves for the custom variations, and maybe have a couple back up moves for specific matchups, thus making each character play the same regardless of who chooses them?

How, in the literal fuck, is that any different than people choosing the best variation for any character, then choosing a different variation or character for a specific MU? That argument makes no sense.

And the fact that it will take too long to customize in tournaments? All NRS has to do is implement a drop down menu for tournament play, let players quickly select their specials, then carry on. It wouldn’t take that long at all.
 
So.... you guys are concerned that people will only pick the best moves for the custom variations, and maybe have a couple back up moves for specific matchups, thus making each character play the same regardless of who chooses them?

How, in the literal fuck, is that any different than people choosing the best variation for any character, then choosing a different variation or character for a specific MU? That argument makes no sense.

And the fact that it will take too long to customize in tournaments? All NRS has to do is implement a drop down menu for tournament play, let players quickly select their specials, then carry on. It wouldn’t take that long at all.
Agreed. In tournaments everyone picks the best thing in the game. Not everyone, but most people do that. Kustom variation was a mistake the day they came up with the idea. I’m not even talking about how difficult it’s gonna be to memorize all the crap to find ways of countering or blocking.
 

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
I think they should change the timing on the flawless block follow ups to make u2 more situational instead of the only real answer, invalidating u3.

If there are no situations where u3 is the superior option then it’ll be entirely useless.
There are situations where you kan't get an U2, but you kan get an U3. U3 is faster. I tested it with Scorpion against Scarlet's F43 and Flawless Blocking the second hit only allows U3 to punish it (U2 is too slow).
 
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It's only 1 bar iirc... And the opponent is left standing with you at significant advantage. Definitely worth it to me if you know they are going for that string, especially offline.
Thought it used both offensive and defensive bar. Didn’t know about advantage, thought it puts them in neutral. Interesting
 

Konqrr

You will learn respect!
If you saw what Sonic Fox and Dragon were doing against Flawless Block with both Skarlet's Parry and Fatal Blow... you would change your tune about your suggestions on Flawless Block taking more meter to use.

I agree that you should NOT be able to mash block and get it. That is some MK vs DC Universe "Pro" move bullshit where you could literally mash and get them all. I'm sure they can put in a check to see if you are pressing block more than once or twice and negate it.

Also, on the subject of Breakaways... they should NOT be hit by Krushing Blows. This happened to Silverye here and it took his meter and left him in a bad situation:
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
The rampant immaturity around giving game feedback is not an issue that’s specific to you. I’ve watched this start with CD Jr. and Carl circa 2012 or 2013, and continue with various players through to the present day. We’ve seen a lot of our top players from one era torch their own credibility in a very public way in the next.

No one quoted Sonic as a life role model. The post you’re referring to simply states that one specific Twitlonger, his feedback on what he liked and disliked so far about MK11, was a great example of how to give a balanced critique without bashing the devs’ competency, calling everyone scrubs, or intentionally trying to instigate a community panic for video views.

That’s a pretty simple concept imo.

You and P2W showed up in the thread and attacked his lifestyle, sexual preferences, personal tweets and a bunch of other stuff that has nothing to do with Mortal Kombat, fighting games, or MK11. Notice that neither one of you actually referenced the point of the post, which was a straightforward discussion of the game mechanics. That’s the kind of tangential toxicity that makes everyone look bad.

It’s one example of how you don’t carefully read the posts you’re responding to, and simply cherrypick to start arguments and fights. People see this.

You say you do this because you love the game and you don’t want it to be bad, but you spent a thread and podcast ranting about the input for amplify as if that’s the difference between MK11 being successful or not. That’s pretty silly.

The reason my post had so many likes is that many people are seeing the BS and they’re tired of it. They notice when you ignore a good argument to attack the person making that argument. You make your bed, you sleep in it. You guys have a mouthpiece that can be a great asset to the community.. Whether you use it for good or to try to pull others down in MK11 is up to you.
 
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STB Sgt Reed

Online Warrior
Premium Supporter
Custom variations need to be a thing for tournaments. If everyone "puts all the best moves in one variation" then 1. how is that different than mkx where only one variation per character was used and the others just sat there?
and
2. it could easily be balanced away from that. If one move works way too well with another, you could up the ability point cost and now they can't be equipped together, yet the moves themselves aren't nerfed to oblivion.

I think it's the smarter choice for the depth, the fun, and the longevity of the game.
 

xenogorgeous

... Groovy.
Premium Supporter
Custom variations need to be a thing for tournaments. If everyone "puts all the best moves in one variation" then 1. how is that different than mkx where only one variation per character was used and the others just sat there?
and
2. it could easily be balanced away from that. If one move works way too well with another, you could up the ability point cost and now they can't be equipped together, yet the moves themselves aren't nerfed to oblivion.

I think it's the smarter choice for the depth, the fun, and the longevity of the game.
this ! brilliant suggestion .... this can help a lot this game life cycle, and avoid that stuck boring mandatory variation system MKX had, where you had none room for creative setups to special moves combinations .... totally agree with viewpoint here. :)
 

Bloodfang

The Immortal Tiger
Are they already asking for Scorpion's ONLY safe move to get nerfed before the game is out? Dude is unsafe on literally everything else and apparently has GAPS in his basic strings that you can full punish hit him out of. Between that and the breakaway mechanic I think that makes him the one character we've seen so far who is SO unsafe, you can even PUNISH him for getting a good read and successfully performing a combo, lol. Please correct me if I'm mistaken. I'd be very happy to be misinformed on this. I haven't experienced the hit out of combos during gaps thing myself only read about it happening frequently.
 

Vslayer

Ask me about my Cassie Cage Agenda
Premium Supporter
Where's the "none" option??

I don't mind any of that stuff. The biggest problem I have is the D1's aren't plus enough on hit imo. But that's about it.

I voted for fatal blow because if you use it, whether it hits or not, it should be gone for that round. Imo of course.
:u:u:u:u

I really wish they aren't going to change mechanics because of a 3 character beta.
 

trufenix

www.youtube.com/thetrufenix
I don't normally do this shit cause I'm washed up and retired as fuck, but oh my god, top players born in the age before patches or youtube or even developers showing up at tournaments asking for nerfs and posting polls on feature changes BEFORE THE GAME EVEN COMES OUT? Before the first tournament? Before we even know all the character tools in the game?! Is this not the saddest development in professional game play yet?!

If this represents you, you have completely lost the plot. You're not interested in learning, adapting, or even playing "fair". You just want to play some fantasy version of the game that works the way you want and get you wins the way you do it best. That's a pretty scrubby ass way of "competing".