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Neutral or no Neutral? That is the question. Stress Test Podcast Discussion.

Which gameplay mechanic should be changed? (Two Choices)


  • Total voters
    97

JBeezYBabY

Mr. Righteous
Dear @General M2Dave

Sonic Fox has engaged in highly unprofessional conduct on Twitter in the past. But because he wins, the community accepts what he does. If he were anybody else, people would be less forgiving.

This thread does not revolve around Sonic Fox's behavior, though, or the massive sheep that he attracts, of which there is an abundance in this thread alone, but the perspective that he shares on Mortal Kombat 11. Sonic Fox usually says what is best for offense, but in this case I agree that forward dashes should have less recovery frames and that the risk versus reward ratio on flawless blocking as well as fatal blows should be carefully reevaluated. As Sonic Fox stated, players are currently more or less mashing the block button and, when they have 20% of life remaining, they are mashing fatal blows and hoping for best results, which seems devoid of any depth that the developers initially intended these gameplay elements to have.
Imma keep it ALL THE WAY LIVE with you, sir. I see why people don't give you the respect you so called "claim" to deserve as a veteran because you sound like a hater. Let me tell you why. You took the time out of your day to be the first to DERAIL a thread dedicated to @SonicFox5000 thoughts on MK11 to throw out your unnecessary viewpoint of Sonic as a person. Then he goes on to explain why he doesn't post much on here because of people like you, and that's upsetting to me. As a veteran your underline job is to uplift others and instill knowledge in the new generation so they can uphold the same standards that make this scene great. And that's love. So what you feel his behavior is highly unprofessional. You forget he just turned 21! If you strongly feel that way, maybe lend him some genuine guidance on how to better represent himself. Maybe some words of encouragement like, "Hey, man. That was kinda inappropriate. Next time try going about the situation this way." etc. Stuff like that. Just something encouraging. But instead of trying to use your influence for good, you shit on this man every chance you get. And it shows. THAT's what a hater is!

Out of respect of Fox's request, I didn't want to address this in the other thread to further derail the conversation. I decided to address this issue here. Then you have the nerve, the unmitigated gall to promote your podcast in expense of trashing @CrimsonShadow and us members by calling us "sheep" for seeing through YOUR bullshit as a collective? Now we're sheep because we all agree against you? Maybe because regardless of their stance on liking SonicFox or not, people are tired of your negative bullshit! I don't know you, sir. But I've met people like you throughout my life. People who will always feel entitled to respect but don't give it. People who knock others down any chance they get, instead of lifting them up. You have shown me in a short amount of time that you're one of those people. I sincerely hope you realize this and grow from this because there is a reason why over 30 people Like Crimson's post waaaaay more than your podcast. Just saying. You really can use your platform to either unify the community people are saying is so divided, or you can help divide it even more. You want respect as a vet? Showing more love is a good start. I wish you well.
 
i honestly feel , let people do the fuck they want and shut the f up.
stop trying to tell people how to act even if it doesnt fit with your personality. its life people sometimes doesnt like other people and so what. you guys are creating bullshit drama for no reasons man i miss rivals.
 

JBeezYBabY

Mr. Righteous
i honestly feel , let people do the fuck they want and shut the f up.
stop trying to tell people how to act even if it doesnt fit with your personality. its life people sometimes doesnt like other people and so what. you guys are creating bullshit drama for no reasons man i miss rivals.
In other words, minding your own damn business and do you. And I agree with that option too. But if you're gonna attack others, then you're gonna get attacked right back. Thats also the way of the world.
 

Johnny Based Cage

The Shangest of Tsungs
Premium Supporter
Dear @General M2Dave



Imma keep it ALL THE WAY LIVE with you, sir. I see why people don't give you the respect you so called "claim" to deserve as a veteran because you sound like a hater. Let me tell you why. You took the time out of your day to be the first to DERAIL a thread dedicated to @SonicFox5000 thoughts on MK11 to throw out your unnecessary viewpoint of Sonic as a person. Then he goes on to explain why he doesn't post much on here because of people like you, and that's upsetting to me. As a veteran your underline job is to uplift others and instill knowledge in the new generation so they can uphold the same standards that make this scene great. And that's love. So what you feel his behavior is highly unprofessional. You forget he just turned 21! If you strongly feel that way, maybe lend him some genuine guidance on how to better represent himself. Maybe some words of encouragement like, "Hey, man. That was kinda inappropriate. Next time try going about the situation this way." etc. Stuff like that. Just something encouraging. But instead of trying to use your influence for good, you shit on this man every chance you get. And it shows. THAT's what a hater is!

Out of respect of Fox's request, I didn't want to address this in the other thread to further derail the conversation. I decided to address this issue here. Then you have the nerve, the unmitigated gall to promote your podcast in expense of trashing @CrimsonShadow and us members by calling us "sheep" for seeing through YOUR bullshit as a collective? Now we're sheep because we all agree against you? Maybe because regardless of their stance on liking SonicFox or not, people are tired of your negative bullshit! I don't know you, sir. But I've met people like you throughout my life. People who will always feel entitled to respect but don't give it. People who knock others down any chance they get, instead of lifting them up. You have shown me in a short amount of time that you're one of those people. I sincerely hope you realize this and grow from this because there is a reason why over 30 people Like Crimson's post waaaaay more than your podcast. Just saying. You really can use your platform to either unify the community people are saying is so divided, or you can help divide it even more. You want respect as a vet? Showing more love is a good start. I wish you well.


which I could not careless about.
I’d like to extend an olive branch and help you out since I’ve seen you do this a few times this past week already: “care” and “less” are two separate words in this context. You’re welcome, bud.

All joking and trolling aside though (you do realize that’s what this usually is, right?), most people here on TYM fully understand and support the fact that different people come from different walks of life, and don’t give a hot shit about personal, sexual, political, etc. preferences or any of that shit. Just like you say you couldn’t care less about @SonicFox5000 being a young, gay black man most of us here don’t really give a flying fuck that you and P2W are the type of dudes who’d hang out at Nordstrom together in matching #WhiteLivesMatter tees, we just don’t want you to derail threads all day every day about it and drive actual top players like Fox away from TYM so we’re only stuck with the washed-up has-beens who think everyone else is a scrub even though they’ve been on that level for years now themselves, as well. That’s all we ask, man.
 
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Complaints about personal attacks then make personal attacks.

Just grow some thick skin, contrary to popular belief people don't have to like each other. The podcast is for entertainment and if it is not your brand of entertainment then simply don't watch it.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Complaints about personal attacks then make personal attacks.

Just grow some thick skin, contrary to popular belief people don't have to like each other. The podcast is for entertainment and if it is not your brand of entertainment then simply don't watch it.
@AK Harold is back!!!!!


Yoooo! Gotta add you to the chat bro. We're gonna be setting up some heavy comp games with character reps on release and likely an online tourney behind it.
 

JBeezYBabY

Mr. Righteous
Complaints about personal attacks then make personal attacks.

Just grow some thick skin, contrary to popular belief people don't have to like each other. The podcast is for entertainment and if it is not your brand of entertainment then simply don't watch it.
This has nothing to do with growing thick skin or complaining. You completely missed the point and decided to make it into an argument. Not falling for it. But you have a good day. :)
 
Yeah that sounds fun @SaltShaker ! the game looks fun and I'm getting some hype for the game right now.

No problems @JBeezYBabY I have an easier time discussing things live. Words always get too mixed up in an online form. More power to you. Also the post was not pertaining to you, but kudos if you thought it did.

I hope that we can all agree that we are all passionate about the games release and vanca wait to see the game unfold.
 

lionheart21

#You'reDead
Premium Supporter
There's no doubt that @General M2Dave has been an absolutely essential part of the zoning community, and someone who is one of the cornerstones of the FGC.

However, he also comes across as someone whose attitude can be viewed, either by newcomers or some fellow vets, as someone who is coasting off of past glories. I get that he's more focused on life outside of fighting games, I myself went on a fighting games hiatus and just completely stopped even viewing the forums in order to focus on getting my Bachelors Degree. I don't blame the man one bit.

But if you're someone that seems to constantly call people "scrubs" and "sheep", it does nothing but tarnish your own rep and makes people view you less as the key player and leader that you are, and more of a bitter has-been that comes across as someone that acts that anyone who's ever picked up a gamepad or joystick should worship him because of how long he's been doing this. Nobody would wanna listen to anything that person says, regardless of how much their info could help. Also doesn't help that it's hypocritical to call someone out for acting in an unprofessional manner while also having an abrasive, "Fuck PC" attitude of your own.

I doubt that he even cares what someone who, until this game, has only been a casual fighting games player with zero tournament experience, thinks, and I don't blame him. But I'm not someone that views him in a negative light. I mean sure, at times he comes across as an arrogant elitist, but I'm not demanding that the man changes his attitude or who he is, that's not how I am. And if he's willing to teach us, I'm willing to learn. I'm just giving constructive criticism.
 

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
Yeah I've enjoyed the talk of "scrubs" and "fools", but I view it as a bit of tongue in cheek. But when I first saw your posts Dave(it was that Tremor thread lol) I thought you were elitist and it turned me off. You probably could reach some more people if you toned that down a little bit.(Not too much though!)

@SonicFox5000 being a young, gay black man most of us here don’t really give a flying fuck that you and P2W are the type of dudes who’d hang out at Nordstrom together in matching #WhiteLivesMatter tees, we just don’t want you to derail threads all day every day about it and drive actual top players like Fox away from TYM so we’re only stuck with the washed-up has-beens who think everyone else is a scrub even though they’ve been on that level for years now themselves, as well. That’s all we ask, man.
Relax
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Royal Contributor
But if you're someone that seems to constantly call people "scrubs" and "sheep", it does nothing but tarnish your own rep and makes people view you less as the key player and leader that you are, and more of a bitter has-been that comes across as someone that acts that anyone who's ever picked up a gamepad or joystick should worship him because of how long he's been doing this. Nobody would wanna listen to anything that person says, regardless of how much their info could help. Also doesn't help that it's hypocritical to call someone out for acting in an unprofessional manner while also having an abrasive, "Fuck PC" attitude of your own.
I appreciate your input. As you implied, I do not care about my "fighting game reputation" or what casual gamers think about me. I state what is on my mind, but I genuinely respect the vast majority of people on this website. I think TYM will be the best place on the Internet to discuss Mortal Kombat 11.

The reality is that there is an influx of players from GameFAQs who have migrated to TYM. They have formed a mob that consists of 30-40 members, 50 members at most, who attack everyone with a contrasting opinion. The mob, which includes the two scrubs above who quoted and disparaged me, originally assaulted me when I argued against the simplification of amplified moves on the podcast.
 

Johnny Based Cage

The Shangest of Tsungs
Premium Supporter
Okay all jokes aside (this time for real), since ^some people don’t know when to and not to take things too seriously: Dave wouldn’t be Dave without the gimmick of being one of this community’s biggest heels and calling everyone scrubs and fools and all that shit all the time.

His whole playstyle even evolved from just doing the most basic shit one can do (stand full screen and “spam” projectiles) JUST to expose the scrubbiest of scrubs who can’t get around that (which he then took to the highest level in multiple games and does deserve his kudos for). Now that’s dedication to a cause right there, and it’s made him one of the most fun components of this community for years, love him or hate him, praise him or troll him. Plus he’s one of the few who’s actually stuck around here at TYM with real consistency. I’d actually hate to see the day he cuts that shit out, truth be told.

You do you, @General M2Dave , and don’t ever let this handful of 30-40 (maybe even 50) scrubs, myself very much included, who just love to hate on you in every thread tell you a damn thing otherwise.
 

RM AtK!

aka - RM_AtK !
Premium Supporter
holy shit, does everybody here have social justice crybaby syndrome.. Dave is an awesome villain in the community lmao. He's always used the words "fool. / scrubs / rushdown fools etc" its fuckin funny and its mainly for comedy. You guys think he's some white supremacist hater bitch.. Too many children in the community can't appreciate comedy anymore..

Dave, don't change anything you do.. You are more apart of the real community than any one of these little babies that just came from the jungle gym.. btw ima rush that shit down with smoke if they put em in you zoning fool
 

JBeezYBabY

Mr. Righteous
I appreciate your input. As you implied, I do not care about my "fighting game reputation" or what casual gamers think about me. I state what is on my mind, but I genuinely respect the vast majority of people on this website. I think TYM will be the best place on the Internet to discuss Mortal Kombat 11.

The reality is that there is an influx of players from GameFAQs who have migrated to TYM. They have formed a mob that consists of 30-40 members, 50 members at most, who attack everyone with a contrasting opinion. The mob, which includes the two scrubs above who quoted and disparaged me, originally assaulted me when I argued against the simplification of amplified moves on the podcast.
What mob are you talking about? And who are you talking about? There's this thing called @ where you can actually refer to the person you're talking about this. Like this, @General M2Dave STOP BEING A PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE PLAY VICTIM!

There is no mob out to get you, sir. That's cute you want to think that but the reality of the situation is you're acting like an asshole! It's perfectly fine to have difference in opinion but you been on your high horse talking shit then try to promote your trash ass podcast asking people for constructive criticism....Well, I gave it to you. You obvious don't care what people have to say. So why ask in the first place? You're a bunch of contradictions and this is why people don't respect you. And by the way you continue to carry yourself, won't respect you. You will be another "has-been" fishing for relevance acting like you're hot shit, while still demeaning others that are actually doing something constructive in the scene. But hey, continue to "careless" as you say, yet you will be here everyday.
 

Kroaken

Life is a block string with no gaps.
What mob are you talking about? And who are you talking about? There's this thing called @ where you can actually refer to the person you're talking about this. Like this, @General M2Dave STOP BEING A PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE PLAY VICTIM!

There is no mob out to get you, sir. That's cute you want to think that but the reality of the situation is you're acting like an asshole! It's perfectly fine to have difference in opinion but you been on your high horse talking shit then try to promote your trash ass podcast asking people for constructive criticism....Well, I gave it to you. You obvious don't care what people have to say. So why ask in the first place? You're a bunch of contradictions and this is why people don't respect you. And by the way you continue to carry yourself, won't respect you. You will be another "has-been" fishing for relevance acting like you're hot shit, while still demeaning others that are actually doing something constructive in the scene. But hey, continue to "careless" as you say, yet you will be here everyday.
I actually enjoy the podcast, even when I disagree with some of the points made.
 
Sometimes I wonder if people actually listened to the podcast lol since there are few comments that are in response to the discussion of the game. I greatly respect the people on this podcast because I have luckily got to play each of them and they all share a similar quality. They all have an intensity to win when they play and grow. But here is some input on the discussion that I have, sorry its long.

Online play was great, I was testing wifi too (still on fiber) but still the connection quality was amazing. I will still probably hate playing online, but I cannot deny the advancement of the online play for this title.

Repeat Interactive, please remove. It has been in their games for so long and I do not think anyone likes it. When you see it in tournament it is really trollish yet strong, too strong. One time use would be great I love the surprise factor of interactives in general, but it is not a surprise when I see people actively corner themselves to gain an advantage.

Break Away I like that there is counter play involved and it isn't a straight momentum removal like breakers were. I believe you can even punish them with fatal blows if you react well. The cost is quite high to use them, but if it is seen as happening too often NRS can make a very simple change and lengthen the regen timer on defensive bars. If it affects the other options that much they can maybe change it to Three total bars and still have it use all bar. Another idea would be to add a significant amount of delay recharging the defense meter if the player fails to absorb an attack while breaking away. That way players can pseudo punish break away a bit harsher.

Walk and Dash I actually liked the current pace of walking. If anything I felt like back walk was too fast. I did not have time to test the speed different between forward and back walk bursts, but there were times where I had a hard time just keeping up with someone back stepping a lot. Dashing right now is non existent in the game play as the risk heavily outweighs the reward to do one. Still it should not be a heavy speed upgrade or you will have some really boring plays.

Fatal Blows it is a fairly safe, extremely damaging move. I think a one time per round limit + the one time per game hit should exist. There are very few games that have kept extremely safe reversal type moves that do massive damage. But also maybe it just needs a timer adjustment. I do like the idea of someone attempting one and missing, but holding out long enough to get another one reloaded in the same round. It is a reward for staying alive for so long at low health. So maybe just make them -7 to allow punishment?

Flawless Block I think the current execution of the initial block is fair. @Dizzy has already stated that there is a grace period between pressing block to activate a flawless. I presume you have about a 4-6 Frame window then as he compared it to Fatal Blow activation which I believe has that amount of armor start up. So assuming this (big assumption) mashing block would flawless large string gaps that you can punish already normally. BUT for the sake of less degenerative and thoughtless play, I think the frame delay to flawless should be extended then, as it is an extremely safe way to punish those string gaps. I dunno what would be considered fair, maybe 9 frames as to not compete with 7 frame interrupt options? Also I am fairly certain I flawless blocked a string back to back, but you do have to initiate the flawless on the first block. As @Zyphox was saying with the Baraka knee string, but honestly if you flawless Baraka's knee hit and are conscious enough to cancel or continue flawless blocking you deserve the reward.

Flawless Cancels A few points to address. The U2 cancel does not have invulnerability, I believe it is just fairly fast. I tested doing flawless blocks on strings and immediately using the U2 option. It would get stuffed on faster strings. Being able to determine what strings you can punish I think is an acceptable reward. The U3 version does have invincibility and will break just about anything so far. I did not try doing reversal baits with Skarlet though. I think the cost should be a little higher too as REO was stating, but not a full stock of everything. Maybe 2 offense and 1 defense for the U2 version since it leads to a lot more damage. I like the general play of the flawless cancels and promoting comebacks that are improbable even at the highest levels. Currently, with the button commands I do not see how you can abuse any sort of option select with it as the block button does not coincide with any other action. It is similar to K-Groove faultless defense in interaction where yes, it is a safe option to go for but it may not always happen. They just added more punishment options with the cancels. It could be turned into parry style by tapping forward if people want more risk, but I believe the intent of the design is to give manageable risks to various levels of players.

Variations the Big One It is completely possible to have a UI that reflects the custom options. If they focused on that and removed variations all together it would make the UI very simple. As for it affecting tournament selection timing there is another game that has a very similar feature and it was not seen as a problem. Marvel had 3 assist options for 3 characters. That is 9 options to choose 3 from. The current system is very similar but possibly simpler because many options involve choosing a 2 slot and a 1 slot. But at its worse you would have 3 x 1 slot options. The options were also not even marked in marvel except alpha, beta, gamma options and understanding what those options were just took a little time to understand really. A built in UI that displays a general idea of gameplay (similar to how they display variations) I think is all that is necessary for casual gamers. For more hardcore players, regardless of the system, I think most will instinctively know what each pick does.

The main issue is development and timing. I do not think NRS has enough time to introduce a whole new UI to make your choices clearly visible to the opponent and yourself. Like SF4 was mentioned and it was always clearly marked and understood that there were differing options. They could just number them off like Third Strike so that it is clear after a while what options are being chosen or color coded Icons. But all this takes a lot of work and I fear the timeline is too short, perhaps midway through the game they can patch it in.

Scorpion the teleport was kinda godlike I used scorpion during the test. I do not see anything wrong with a mind game of 1 hit or 2. I also do not see anything wrong with a high reward teleport. But combining both is very powerful and frustrating for the other player. There are two immediate options that I can see to help a little bit with this. The first will be easier, because it wouldn't mess up his combo routes right now. That would be to have to commit the enhance move and remove the gap between the two hits so that you can't unblock and get hit by the 2nd hit. The second option, if they want to keep the mind game of 1 or 2 hits, remove the launch portion. But then they would have to add some other combo routes which would take more balance and work. It could be balanced considering the whole of the game and they leave it. Character balance is really hard to even think about at this stage, but a very hard to avoid mid hit that can launch and mind game is quite nice. @REO will probably pick it before it gets nerfed.

Thanks to anyone that read all of this. Also, to anyone that has not listened yet, this is all from the first 55 minutes of the show, just pure discussion.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Royal Contributor
But hey, continue to "careless" as you say, yet you will be here everyday.
Correct. I never run away from TYM and use Twitter as my safe space as some players do. I am an old school player who thinks a website like TYM is the best tool for learning a fighting game provided the community contributes valuable information, which I hope is the case for Mortal Kombat 11.

You are most certainly a fool, but I respect you for pointing out my "careless" mistake. My posts are usually free of spelling and grammatical errors.