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Nerf/buffs and what's really needed

ando1184

ando1184

Warrior
Hi guys, I know we are still getting over the latest patch high but I wanted to put out a list of nerf/buff/fixes of some characters and things. I know we can't all have what we want but I think something along the lines of reasonable is close enough, so here goes;

General fixes:

- Fix random xray bug when pressing 3+4
- Fix interractable shortcuts (interferes with certain characters strings/inputs), look here for video examples of issue: http://testyourmight.com/threads/nrs-please-fix-input-shortcuts.54183/
- Throw tech window needs to "NOT" be so tight or limit throw breaking to a single button press (like injustice)
- Block breaker needs to take only 1 bar of meter and stamina
- combo breaker needs to take 2 bars of meter and 1 bar of stamina or reduce the cooldown of stamina regeneration
- general fix on gender specific hitboxes
- fix frame data and improved net play
- fix training mode glitch (if you set to 0 bar of meter and change health %, while opponent is set to reversal, the opponent won't block)
- fix white lotus temple right interractable glitch (sometimes when you press R1, the interractable animation goes off but the lantern doesn't hit and is still at the top right corner visually)

Character changes:

Cassie Cage:
- Fix/adjust her character hitbox (There are things that naturally whiff vs her that don't whiff against the rest of the cast. No it's not a typical female hitbox issue, Cassie seems different)


Jason:
- fix hitbox issues on jumping normals


Jax:
- fix issue where certain combos would whiff vs different hitboxes
- b34 string doesn't appear to scale properly in combos


Johnny Cage:
- 114. the 4 is a mid that whiffs all the time. Hitbox needs adjusted.
- B3,4,3. The B3 sometimes whiffs on low profile characters. It's also a mid.
- The mimic shadow kick hitbox goes away if johnny is hit with a projectile. There should be a trade.
1,1,3~mimic rising shadow whiffs in many cases. Needs adjusted.


Erron Black:
- get rid of cancel window after 211 in the 21122 string (the strings already safe on block)
- reduce amount of meter gained from 21122 string


Raiden:
- thunder god: reduce amount of meter gained from lightning attacks
- get rid of Option select cancel window after b2


Reptile:
- deceptive: reduce recovery frames on normal invisibility activation


Liu Kang:
- adjust hitbox on 111. second and third hit is mid and it whiffs sometimes on certain characters.
- adjust hitbox on exwindmill punch for flame fist variation. It is not a true blockstring against most of the cast, u can poke or armor the last hit easy. Some hits of windmill punch whiff also, Look here for video example: http://www.testyourmight.com/threads/liu-kang-hitbox-issues.54021/


Kotal Kahn:
- 114 string needs to not whiff vs crouching opponents
- blood god needs an armored move
- parry needs to be more useful
- war god: db3 (ground pound) needs to not whiff on a standing opponent after a knockdown
- much less recovery on sun ray otherwise its complete useless from range against anyone even with one range attack or special. (kotal doesnt get much damage and ending with sun ray is just waste of time, in most cases)
- no gap after B14 otherwise its useless if your opponent has armor move and 1 bar.


Kano:
- 112 needs to not completely whiff against crouching opponents
- cutthroat: b1 needs a bigger hitbox
- upball needs to function better as an AA
- commando: MB command throws shouldn't whiff vs grounded attacking opponents, look here for video example:


Scorpion:
- Fix inconsistent hitbox of flame aura (sometimes it will get armored out of and sometimes it wont. looks like a glitch/bug)


Shinnok:
- regular db2 needs to be less safe on block
- standing 3 needs to hit low not mid (it's literally a stomp on the foot), if they did this I would prefer they remove his f4 low to compensate. (He doesn't need more universal tools for his already solid vortex setups)
- imposter: remove the damage buff from mimicry (it's really unnecessary)


Sub Zero:
- fix b33 ice ball combo to properly combo vs everyone
- unbreakable: make parry more viable (it has way too many recovery frames and too little active frames)
- unbreakable: give this variation his ice burst special and change ice aura command input to be DD plus button.
- grandmaster: if clone disappears when he's forced to block, then allow him to summon clone on command regardless of proximity to opponent.
- grandmaster: allow EX clone to work properly (it gets stuffed on activation)


Tremor:
- Crystalline: Opponent should not be allowed to use his Boulder (Interractable) special move
- Crystalline: Slightly faster startup on db1 variations, it's extremely hard to use this move as a counter zoning defensive tool (what it appears it's intended for since it nullifies projectiles), and i'm talking about full screen even

Now I'm sure there are other characters that need attention like this as well. So I hope you guys can fill me in on what I missed. As for the characters that do crazy chip damage, I firmly believe that the block breakers cost being reduced will greatly help in dealing with that issue. Anyway, discuss and hopefully we can compile a list that NRS will look at as a whole and make this game as close to balanced as it can get.
 
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S

StealthyMuffin

Earth's Mightiest Knucklehead
Takeda:
-B2 hits mid, 18 frame startup
-Teleport is a universal move
-A new costume

Or just nerf Shirai Ryu's damage. That's fine too. Thanks, NRS.
 
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Braindead

Braindead

I want Kronika to step on my face
For the love of God TYM needs to stop this "looks like a low so it should be low" nonsense. Shinnok already has a 7f low normal why would you want standing 3 to be low?

Unbreakable parry is fine. A 6f combo starter should have insane recovery. And you can use ex Aura to take more risks with the parry.
 
LucaTheRipper

LucaTheRipper

RULES OF NATURE!
StealthyMuffin said:
I mean B2. Only dummies get hit with such a slow overhead. Having the overhead property AND the 18f startup would be too good.
Click to expand...
I dont think so, in a medium distance you have the option to go with the b2 overhead or b3 low, you can also poke him with OH and kunais... if they change this they will only block low since Takeda need this space control and make the enemy guess. If this game was like MK9 i'll agree with that.
 
SaSSolino

SaSSolino

Soul Stealing Loyalist
shinnok: more damage overall, but no more damage boost on the mimicry in impostor.

sonya: more block frames on divekick and low/overhead options after a stance in covert ops.

subzero unbreakable: make the ice explosion move viable in this variation too.
 
S

StealthyMuffin

Earth's Mightiest Knucklehead
LucaTheRipper said:
I dont think so, in a medium distance you have the option to go with the b2 overhead or b3 low, you can also poke him with OH and kunais... if they change this they will only block low since Takeda need this space control and make the enemy guess. If this game was like MK9 i'll agree with that.
Click to expand...
I see your point. Maybe that's not the solution to most of my problems with Takeda.
 
ando1184

ando1184

Warrior
Braindead said:
For the love of God TYM needs to stop this "looks like a low so it should be low" nonsense. Shinnok already has a 7f low normal why would you want standing 3 to be low?

Unbreakable parry is fine. A 6f combo starter should have insane recovery. And you can use ex Aura to take more risks with the parry.
Click to expand...
@shinnok comment: that's not just a tym thing, in all fighters if a move looks like it hits a certain way then it hits that way. Take it out altogether if it's gonna be an issue then because it looks stupid that a toe stomp hits mid. I agree that he doesn't "need" anymore combo starters but having a move look low that isn't is bad presentation if ya ask me.

@SZ comment: I would agree with you but his combo damage off a frozen opponent is scaled a lot. If he did cryo damage from unbreakable that might have justified how parry works but it doesn't. On top of that you have to burn meter to give him a def buff. So I think parry should be better, just a bit. I would prefer his ice armor to not require meter to function as a def buf bc let's face it, zoning isn't a huge thing in this game. I didn't say anything about that because I knew someone would already say something along the lines of "he's fine".
 
RM slacked

RM slacked

Shinnok trash from Canada.
F22 is already super - on block, why would you get rid of the chip. If they got rid of the chip then they should make it -3 or something instead of how unsafe it is now.
 
Ares_Supreme

Ares_Supreme

Gaymer
Delete Sub-Zero from the Game.
Quit nerfing Scorpion already. It's one of the few anti-airs in the game and it has a very long startup so we can only anti-air you on a read. So, git gud.
 
Braindead

Braindead

I want Kronika to step on my face
ando1184 said:
@shinnok comment: that's not just a tym thing, in all fighters if a move looks like it hits a certain way then it hits that way. Take it out altogether if it's gonna be an issue then because it looks stupid that a toe stomp hits mid. I agree that he doesn't "need" anymore combo starters but having a move look low that isn't is bad presentation if ya ask me.

@SZ comment: I would agree with you but his combo damage off a frozen opponent is scaled a lot. If he did cryo damage from unbreakable that might have justified how parry works but it doesn't. On top of that you have to burn meter to give him a def buff. So I think parry should be better, just a bit. I would prefer his ice armor to not require meter to function as a def buf bc let's face it, zoning isn't a huge thing in this game. I didn't say anything about that because I knew someone would already say something along the lines of "he's fine".
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Parry doesn't scale bad at all. You can easily get 25% off a parry with a combo that carries the opponent half way through the stage which means you can easily corner them. Having damage higher than that is pretty much crazy off a 6f (or 3f EX) parry.

The only "problem" with unbreakable is that he needs the player to be on point with his footsies and spacing to help him with his anti-airing and trip guarding. But that doesn't mean at all that parry should anti-air like most people want it to. I'd take being able to parry low pokes over parrying jump attacks any day.
 
Name v.5.0

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
Johnny Cage. 114. the 4 is a mid that whiffs all the time. Hitbox needs adjusted.

B3,4,3. The B3 sometimes whiffs on low profile characters. It's also a mid.


SD Johnny: T

he mimic shadow kick hitbox goes away if johnny is hit with a projectile. There should be a trade.
1,1,3~mimi rising shadow whiffs in many cases. Needs adjusted.

Fisty Johnny:
Speedbag sucks now. The variation is Spectral Ermac levels of useless now. :DOGE
 
Pakman

Pakman

Lawless Victory!
If Erron can no longer get a command grab off his 211 string (his only safe string btw) he should get a damage or range buff on it to compensate because he's never going to land it reliably in a match (in every scenario it's better to take the last hit of any of his strings rather than blocking them and eating xx command grab i.e damage mitigation).

The meter gain on the 211 string is actually in line with meter gained on strings in general, it just happens to hit 5 times and builds meter per hit - you know like every other string in the game...

Lastly, any nerfs to his command grab game (or any of his universal/non variation specific tools for that matter) also indirectly nerf his gunslinger variation...

P.s; Erron has had at least 1 nerf every update so far with absolutely no buffs to compensate...granted they were warranted nerfs, but please keep this in mind when you are theorising on how best to balance him/nerf him into the ground. Thanks!
 
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Juggs

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
ando1184 said:
Scorpion:
- reduce active frames of flame aura (there's been times when I got hit and the flames were entirely gone)

Shinnok:
- reduce chip damage from f22 db2 MB loop
- standing 3 needs to hit low not mid (it's literally a stomp on the foot)
Click to expand...
Scorpion does not need anymore nerfs. Respect the flame aura instead of crying when you get hit by it.

Shinnok doesn't need to do less chip, just less plus on mb hell spark so you can't loop it. Still make it + just not +24 or whatever it is.

And a move looking low or high doesn't warrant it being low or high/oh. He has a 6 frame low he doesn't need another one.
 
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