Name your top 5 MKX Characters in order & List one hypothetical Nerf for each

[STB Shujinkydink]

I don't think anyone besides Quan Chi decides real nerfs, since Quan chi is retard-status/10

Hello, My name is Shujinkydink and they call me a Quan Chi downplayer.

Since this is an opinion thread im gonna give my opinion. There are only two characters on this roster who i think need nerfs. Tanya and Kung Lao. Quan chi does not need nerfs!!! He is perfectly fine the way he is and is a top 5 character. Honestly, i wouldn't even care so much if Kung lao didnt get nerfed. But Quan is not a serious threat to the tournament scene. There is currently only one quan chi doing well, and i believe his best placement is 3rd at a major. A lot of people whine and say "oh but hes so broken online, his hard to blockables are pretty much impossible to block." Well imo facts would say otherwise. Ive done some research and here's what ive found.

During the first 5 weeks of ESL, Tanya has been present in the top 8 a total of 10 times. Kung Lao has been present a total of 11 times. You know how many times Quan chi has been in Top 8? not once. His setups and damage are great, and his mixups are annoying, but NOT OP. People clearly know how to beat him and are doing so consistently. The reason balance changes happen in fighting games is for the competitive player, not the casuals, and right now competitively quan doesn't seem to be giving anyone major problems. There's lots of things i would LIKE nerfed in this game, such as sub zeros clone, Kung Lao's tempest spin, hell i even think Erron black could use some toning down, but none of things are neccessary. At this point in the game, infinites and glitches have been mostly removed and we are lucky to even see a new patch. The nerf list should be a very short and very minimal one, and we should be focusing more on buffs to the lower tiers to lessen the gap and make it more enjoyable so everyone can use their character.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

I can't speak in frame data well enough to be really specific, but this would be my of it...

1. Tempest Lao. It's difficult to tone him down simply because of the way he's designed, but you could go with making Orbiting Hat less safe, and having EX Spin suck in the opponent on block to make it more punishable, AND make his jumping 2 less ridiculous, and he would STILL in all likelihood be top 5 material. But people would lose their fucking minds.

2. Kobu Tanya's pressure. Though i wouldnt mind seeing her get a boost of some sort as an overall character to compensate.

I seriously can't think of anything else that wouldnt result in my being executed. Theres plenty of dirt in this game that's absolutely absurd, ala DF Kang/A-List Cage's plus frames, Summoner Quan, or Jax just being fucking ridiculous in general, but it's been the meta for so long now/so much of it is pretty much built into the character's makeup that it would be fundamentally game changing to alter it now. At this point Id rather see them do as they did in IGAU and buff the bottom tier than take chances screwing up characters that are already cemented as great. I still dont understand how you can end up with characters as well built and diverse as Lao or Tremor or Cassie, but manage to fall so short with ones like Jason or Kenshi or Mileena. But it's not too late to fix it.

 

[MrProfDrPepper]

sorry, i meant they were for you

heres a roll of paper towels. maybe you need something more absorbent.

why are you assuming im mad? everyone is asking you questions on how you think he isnt top 5 and you are avoiding the question. if you say someone is mad or crying and just spam them messages of tissues and paper towels that just shows how weak your argument is. but of course your response will probably be something more ridiculous involving the tears that no one is shedding.

 

[Tokiwartoothxdk]

come on tooki we all know why you put erron top 5 you silly goose

tooki exposed

https://account.xbox.com/en-us/gameclip/528d3d79-3061-4c35-9c6d-b4d25c86c5dc?gamerTag=LAHWFF&scid=1a930100-429f-476c-bfaf-f01b3c1f5b39

https://account.xbox.com/en-us/gameclip/50915511-df52-4428-86c0-163a776a5079?gamerTag=TokiWartoothxDK&scid=1a930100-429f-476c-bfaf-f01b3c1f5b39
I can nitpick too :^)

 

[dribirut]

1. Tanya
Even without a delay, there should be a gap after second rekka to armor.

2. Kung Lao
Make ji2 a little less positive on block.

3. Shinnok
Take awa y the dumb delay on mb sparks on block after the third hit. Yiu shouldnt be able to delay it for like a full second

4. Quan
Bat mid

5. Liu Kang
Mb flyinh kick 0 on block
6. Predator
7. Cassie
8. Tremor / takeda
9. Cassie
10. Reptile
11. Jax
12. Sub

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Hello, My name is Shujinkydink and they call me a Quan Chi downplayer.

Since this is an opinion thread im gonna give my opinion. There are only two characters on this roster who i think need nerfs. Tanya and Kung Lao. Quan chi does not need nerfs!!! He is perfectly fine the way he is and is a top 5 character. Honestly, i wouldn't even care so much if Kung lao didnt get nerfed. But Quan is not a serious threat to the tournament scene. There is currently only one quan chi doing well, and i believe his best placement is 3rd at a major. A lot of people whine and say "oh but hes so broken online, his hard to blockables are pretty much impossible to block." Well imo facts would say otherwise. Ive done some research and here's what ive found.

During the first 5 weeks of ESL, Tanya has been present in the top 8 a total of 10 times. Kung Lao has been present a total of 11 times. You know how many times Quan chi has been in Top 8? not once. His setups and damage are great, and his mixups are annoying, but NOT OP. People clearly know how to beat him and are doing so consistently. The reason balance changes happen in fighting games is for the competitive player, not the casuals, and right now competitively quan doesn't seem to be giving anyone major problems. There's lots of things i would LIKE nerfed in this game, such as sub zeros clone, Kung Lao's tempest spin, hell i even think Erron black could use some toning down, but none of things are neccessary. At this point in the game, infinites and glitches have been mostly removed and we are lucky to even see a new patch. The nerf list should be a very short and very minimal one, and we should be focusing more on buffs to the lower tiers to lessen the gap and make it more enjoyable so everyone can use their character.

Stick to the thread topic. I love ya but this? Didn't a quan make top 8 in EU just this week? Come on man!!!

 

[Goat-City-II]

I think 2 simple universal changes can instantly normalize every OP pressure character in this game:

1. Make block breakers 1 bar and full stamina.
2. Add 3% of a bar of meter gain for every individual hit you block. This would contrast with the 6% of a bar of meter you currently gain for having your attacks blocked.

These two changes would normalize Kung Lao, Heavy Weapons Jax, Dragon's Fire Liu Kang, Dvorah, Shinnok, Quan Chi to some extent, A List Johhny, Takeda, Kotal Kahn, Tremor, Kobu Tanya, and HQT Predator to some extent. Plus they'd improve the game in tons of other ways as well. If these changes wouldn't be enough to normalize some of these characters, here's a few extra ideas:

Tempest - Add an armorable gap between 11 and 11212
Summoner - I like your idea, Pig. They could either do that or make it impossible to summon the bat during a trance.
DF Liu Kang - Give him the Hellfire Scorpion treatment.
HQT Predator - Give him the Hellfire Scorpion treatment or add a gap or 2 in his pressure string/strings (I don't know what they are because I never bought him.)

 

[Dankster Morgan]

I think 2 simple universal changes can instantly normalize every OP pressure character in this game:

1. Make block breakers 1 bar and full stamina.
2. Add 3% of a bar of meter gain for every individual hit you block. This would contrast with the 6% of a bar of meter you currently gain for having your attacks blocked.

These two changes would normalize Kung Lao, Weavy Weapons Jax, Dragon's Fire Liu Kang, Dvorah, Shinnok, Quan Chi to some extent, A List Johhny, Takeda, Kotal Kahn, Tremor, Kobu Tanya, and HQT Predator to some extent. If these changes wouldn't be enough to normalize some of these characters, here's a few extra ideas:

Tempest - Add an armorable gap between 11 and 11212
Summoner - I like your idea Pig. They could either do that or make it impossible to summon the bat during a trance.
DF Liu Kang - Give him the Hellfire Scorpion treatment.
HQT - Add a gap or 2 in his pressure string/strings (I don't know what they are because I never bought him.)

You want to add gaps to predators pressure strings and you don't even have the character, don't know which strings or where to add the gaps. I respect your opinions but the predator stuff is rediculous, asking for nerfs when you havent even played with/labbed with/understand the character. Come on man, you have to be careful nerfing HQTs strings because that will hurt Hunter and warrior even worse, and those variations need to be left alone.

 

[Goat-City-II]

You want to add gaps to predators pressure strings and you don't even have the character, don't know which strings or where to add the gaps. I respect your opinions but the predator stuff is rediculous, asking for nerfs when you havent even played with/labbed with/understand the character. Come on man, you have to be careful nerfing HQTs strings because that will hurt Hunter and warrior even worse, and those variations need to be left alone.

I don't need to have the character to know how to nerf block pressure in general. From what I understand, the 2 things that make him OP are his zoning and his laser cancel pressure. This game needs more good zoners, so leave that alone. And his laser cancel pressure could be fixed easily by just adding an armorable gap somewhere. Either that or they could give him the Hellfire Scorpion treatment too. I don't know about his other variations, but if this would nerf them significantly too then just buff them to compensate. Don't they need buffs anyway?

 

[TopTierHarley]

Devorah:
Removed from the game.

Stop

 

[KIllaByte]

So many of you are soooo, so bad at this.

 

[Compbros]

4. Cassie Cage Hollywood
212d1+2 string is -11

Reason: gives her a string finally entire cast can punish. Oh my god she now has a consequence (can make safe w ex flip )

Fine.

5. Cassie Cage Hollywood
- B212D(1+2) has less pushback on block making B212D(1+2)xxFlip Kick hit and be punishable.

Fine.

2: cassie
Make ex flip kick unsafe

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooope.



I will never understand the call for this particular nerf.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

I don't need to have the character to know how to nerf block pressure in general. From what I understand, the 2 things that make him OP are his zoning and his laser cancel pressure. This game needs more good zoners, so leave that alone. And his laser cancel pressure could be fixed easily by just adding an armorable gap somewhere. Either that or they could give him the Hellfire Scorpion treatment too. I don't know about his other variations, but if this would nerf them significantly too then just buff them to compensate. Don't they need buffs anyway?

Hunter is good warrior sucks butt. Predator is not OP, there isn't an "OP" character in the game, some are just better than others. Hes not purely about the run cancel pressure like LK or JC, he loses half a bar of stamina for each cancel as well. He doesn't have a true 50/50, he no longer has his 50% bnbs and when standing 3 became a high it hindered his ability to create 50/50s. He's had the shit beaten out of him and its time people recognize his flaws. He's really good and could be top 5 and imo is easily top 10. He doesn't need gaps in strings lol people just need to learn the matchup. He is just frustrating that doesn't make him too good.

 

[Tokiwartoothxdk]

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooope.

I will never understand the call for this particular nerf.

Sorry, i thought cassie players might actually want to learn to hit confirm

 

[Goat-City-II]

Hunter is good warrior sucks butt. Predator is not OP, there isn't an "OP" character in the game, some are just better than others. Hes not purely about the run cancel pressure like LK or JC, he loses half a bar of stamina for each cancel as well. He doesn't have a true 50/50, he no longer has his 50% bnbs and when standing 3 became a high it hindered his ability to create 50/50s. He's had the shit beaten out of him and its time people recognize his flaws. He's really good and could be top 5 and imo is easily top 10. He doesn't need gaps in strings lol people just need to learn the matchup. He is just frustrating that doesn't make him too good.

If a character is better than many other characters and only has 1 or 2 losing match ups, if any, then they're overpowered. Just because they're not broken like Kabal doesn't mean they're not overpowered. Besides, I said in my comment that the changes I asked for only applied IF 1 bar block breakers and meter gain while blocking weren't enough to balance them already. YOMI agrees he's S tier and I'm sure they know the match-up very well. Either his zoning needs to be slightly nerfed or his block pressure needs to be slightly nerfed/less brain dead. I have no problem with his zoning, but block pressure is universally overpowered in this game. So again, if 1 bar block breakers and meter gain on block aren't enough to normalize his block pressure, then adding a gap or 2 or making his run cancel pressure less plus should be.

 

[Eldriken]

Since when did "one" = more than one?

 

[xInfra Deadx]

Since when did "one" = more than one?

When I said so.

 

[Compbros]

Sorry, i thought cassie players might actually want to learn to hit confirm

Many hit confirm B12, D+F1, etc, that's some reductive reasoning to take away the ability to make her mixups safe because people "don't hit confirm".

 

[Tokiwartoothxdk]

Many hit confirm B12, D+F1, etc, that's some reductive reasoning to take away the ability to make her mixups safe because people "don't hit confirm".

If people hit confirm it, why is it a big deal then?

 

[Compbros]

If people hit confirm it, why is it a big deal then?

Many hit confirm B12, D+F1, etc, that's some reductive reasoning to take away the ability to make her mixups safe because people "don't hit confirm".

 

[Tokiwartoothxdk]

So you're saying cassie NEEDS safe 50/50s?

 

[Dankster Morgan]

If a character is better than many other characters and only has 1 or 2 losing match ups, if any, then they're overpowered. Just because they're not broken like Kabal doesn't mean they're not overpowered. Besides, I said in my comment that the changes I asked for only applied IF 1 bar block breakers and meter gain while blocking weren't enough to balance them already.

At least use the character or lab against him and TRY to find workarounds before pretending you understand him. This game is pretty balanced, the top tier characters arnt overpowered because overpowered would imply that they make most if not all characters redundant, or are unfair within the rules of the game. Predator is neither of those things. Besides, Lao, Quan, Tanya, D'Vorah, Cassie, and Shinnok are probably better than predator if not more characters. This is thing I have to say about this, if you don't even own the character don't ask for nerfs, like really?

 

[Goat-City-II]

At least use the character or lab against him and TRY to find workarounds before pretending you understand him. This game is pretty balanced, the top tier characters arnt overpowered because overpowered would imply that they make most if not all characters redundant, or are unfair within the rules of the game. Predator is neither of those things. Besides, Lao, Quan, Tanya, D'Vorah, Cassie, and Shinnok are probably better than predator if not more characters. This is thing I have to say about this, if you don't even own the character don't ask for nerfs, like really?

I just told you the nerf I requested for his block pressure only applied IF, repeat, IF 1 bar block breakers and meter gain on block weren't enough to balance him already. That means I did not ask for him to be nerfed, I only threw the nerf idea out there as a possible suggestion in such a case. Overpowered would imply that they have a ton of winning match ups and very few losing ones, if any, which they do. What you're saying is the definition of being broken like Kabal or Cyrax, not overpowered. Those 2 characters make nearly every other character in MK9 redundant and useless except maybe Kung Lao and Kenshi. So again, the top tier are overpowered by the definition of being top tier. Not super overpowered but overpowered nonetheless, so they should get slightly nerfed. How that's not common sense to you is baffling to me.

 

[PapaRegadetho]

- Dragon's Fire's MB Flying kick to be 0 on block, but maybe compensate with a faster d1 would be good, a 7 or 8.

- Summoner's Bat summon to hit mid. Maybe a faster armored reversal to compensate?

- Tempest's Orbiting hat to have more cooldown. Buff Hat Trick...

 

[WiseM0nkey]

1. Tempest Lao
- Make EX Spin suck the player in on block similar to what it does on hit, making it very very easy to full combo punish for every character

2. Summoner Quan
- Make EX Rune +7

3. Bonershaper
- Make D1 8 frames instead of 6 or Less cancel frames on D4

4. Kobu Jitsu Tanyer
- Remove "delaying rekkas = less negative on block". They should be consistent. If its too big of a nerf, give her back invincible frames on her teleport (she should have them, an invisible air dash is (soap bar in my mouth))

5. Cassie Cage Hollywood
- B212D(1+2) has less pushback on block making B212D(1+2)xxFlip Kick hit and be punishable.

dude, ex spin is -28, it's basically death.